What to make of this circular logic?

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I ran across this problem:

In 1 Corinthians Paul says, among other things, that love is not jealous.
In Exodus 20 God says “I am a jealous God…”
Therefore, God is not love.

What do I say to this? 🤷
 
=coolduude;6725627]I ran across this problem:
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In 1 Corinthians Paul says, among other things, that love is not jealous.
In Exodus 20 God says “I am a jealous God…”
Therefore, God is not love.
Click to expand...
What do I say to this? 🤷
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It is in the manefestation of LOVE, how we live it, how we chose to share it, that we are NOT to permit to be influenced by jealously.

**Exo. 20 **by the way which is the Ten Commandments chapter] is speaking of a rightous jealousy; steming from worship of false gods, including those we make for ourselves, and disobedince to His Commandments; which are COMMADS not mere suggestons.🙂

Love and prayers,

Pat
 
PJM said:
It is in the manefestation of LOVE, how we live it, how we chose to share it, that we are NOT to permit to be influenced by jealously.

**Exo. 20 **by the way which is the Ten Commandments chapter] is speaking of a rightous jealousy; steming from worship of false gods, including those we make for ourselves, and disobedince to His Commandments; which are COMMADS not mere suggestons.🙂

Love and prayers,

Pat
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I agree with PJM, but I would also say that you shouldn’t get too hung up on the literal meaning of the words in a particular English translation of the Bible. Remember, the Pentateuch was originally written in Hebrew, 1 Corinthians in Greek; the original words could not have been the same and probably had different connotations. But even if that were not the case, in this instance there is no conflict if we look at the context. In Exodus, “jealous” simply means that God does not desire for his people to worship false gods, as the ancients were wont to do, as attested by the lamentable Golden Calf episode. In the New Testament quote, “jealous” can be taken to mean “lacking in trust” and “selfish”, which clearly do not reflect a loving attitude.
 
In addition…when we are jealous we are jealous of other people, in God’s case in Exodus 20 He says He is a jealous God… jealous for the affections of His own creation who have turned to non-existent gods. That is a manifestation of God’s love for us.
 
coolduude said:
I ran across this problem:

In 1 Corinthians Paul says, among other things, that love is not jealous.
In Exodus 20 God says “I am a jealous God…”
Therefore, God is not love.

What do I say to this? 🤷
Click to expand...
Saying God is jealous does not deny God is love.
 
AlanFromWichita said:
That sounds interesting, but I’m not sure how it answers the OP question. Can you please expand?

Alan
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I read the OP’s question as supposing God is either love or jealous. I reject that dichotomy (and the Old Testament clearly portrays God as both, so seemingly does so too).
 
diggerdomer said:
I read the OP’s question as supposing God is either love or jealous. I reject that dichotomy (and the Old Testament clearly portrays God as both, so seemingly does so too).
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Thank you for your answer. Then how do you see the 1 Cor quote as applying to the OT situation? I’m fascinated by this discussion.

Alan
 
I don’t think trying to reconcile verses is best done by waving it away as differences in translation. This may be true, but it does nothing to resolve the conflict.

This is not, however, a circular argument, as diggerdomer said. Think of Romans 12:19 “Beloved, do not look for revenge but leave room for the wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.””

If vengeance can be god’s, then can’t jealousy? Argumentative types might be inclined to say then that god is arbitrary, but applying tougher standards to children is not arbitrary: it is good parenting.
 
Zhuge said:
I don’t think trying to reconcile verses is best done by waving it away as differences in translation. This may be true, but it does nothing to resolve the conflict.

This is not, however, a circular argument, as diggerdomer said. Think of Romans 12:19 “Beloved, do not look for revenge but leave room for the wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.””

If vengeance can be god’s, then can’t jealousy? Argumentative types might be inclined to say then that god is arbitrary, but applying tougher standards to children is not arbitrary: it is good parenting.
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Vengeance is not good either, for us.

Maybe what it boils down to, is that what is good for God is not necessarily what’s good for us. When God came down in human form, He did not do jealousy or wrath – unless you call tossing down a couple tables “wrath.”

So, I guess love is like the love Christ showed us, not the love the Father has. At least, we don’t comprehend how His love works. How else can we explain the verse “discrepancies?”

Alan
 
That’s exactly what I meant, yes: we are the children, god is the parent. I apologize if I was a little ambiguous.
 
Zhuge said:
That’s exactly what I meant, yes: we are the children, god is the parent. I apologize if I was a little ambiguous.
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OK, then I guess I got what you were saying. 🙂 BTW, welcome to CAF!

Alan
 
coolduude said:
I ran across this problem:

In 1 Corinthians Paul says, among other things, that love is not jealous.
In Exodus 20 God says “I am a jealous God…”
Therefore, God is not love.

What do I say to this? 🤷
Click to expand...
The following link deals with just this question.

apologeticspress.org/articles/598

I think the key to the paradox is that we need to be aware in what sense the word “Jealous” is being used in both instances.

In the case of human jealousy, it can range from being jealous of the love of spouse to being jealous of someone’s stamp collection. Jealousy applied to love of one’s own spouse would generally be a good thing, unless it were misplaced eg. a husband flies into a temper just because his wife talks to another man at a function. But jealousy applied to someone else’s stamp collection would be a bad thing - if we really cared about that person, we would not be jealous of their possessions.

The husband is jealous of his wife because he loves her. But the jealous citizen is jealous of someone else’s possessions because they are not his,a nd he wants them.

God is jealous in the sense of the husband and wife. In Exodus it was Israel that was the focus of His jealousy. Now it is the Church. God couldn’t care less about their possessions - He’s God, and it’s all His anyway. And I haven’t seen anything much in Scripture to indicate God is infatuated with material things. The poor are spiritually blessed. It is more difficult for a rich man to get into heaven etc…

But in Paul’s famous sermon on “love”, the jealousy he would be concerned about is human spite - the desire to have what someone else has, to covet their possessions, and which could include their wife or husband.

it depends on the context. Even though the Hebrew word in the OT and the Greek word in the NT have similar meanings, the difference is in the application.
 
=fkjuliano;6726000]I agree with PJM, but I would also say that you shouldn’t get too hung up on the literal meaning of the words in a particular English translation of the Bible. Remember, the Pentateuch was originally written in Hebrew, 1 Corinthians in Greek; the original words could not have been the same and probably had different connotations. But even if that were not the case, in this instance there is no conflict if we look at the context. In Exodus, “jealous” simply means that God does not desire for his people to worship false gods, as the ancients were wont to do, as attested by the lamentable Golden Calf episode. In the New Testament quote, “jealous” can be taken to mean “lacking in trust” and “selfish”, which clearly do not reflect a loving attitude.
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WOW! It’s so nice to be in agreement. As a FYI I often use “Strongs” to check meanings in Greek or Hebrew.

Love and prayers,
 
AlanFromWichita said:
Thank you for your answer. Then how do you see the 1 Cor quote as applying to the OT situation? I’m fascinated by this discussion.

Alan
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I don’t know Greek or Hebrew, so I’m at a bit of a disadvantage interpreting where God is portrayed as “jealous” in the Old Testament (Hebrew) vs. Paul in 1 Cor 13 saying love is “not jealous” (Greek).

I tend to think that Paul’s admonition to the Corinthians regarding “jealous” is not simply and exactly the same meaning conveyed when the Old Testament portrays God as “jealous.”
 
There is no dispute that God is Love and Just. Jealousy is a part of Justice. When you claim for yourself what is God’s you have stolen, and justice kicks in.

We cannot be jealous, because as created beings we need to acknowledge that all things are God’s.

In His Love He gives us all things. In our pride, we steal what He would have given.
 
Its always helps to check the translation “1 Cor 13:4 charity envieth not” KJV and DR

I wouldn’t bother with any other kind of translation.
 
How about this: God is the source of all love, and so can be jealous - which means that He is due all love in return. He is love’s Creator and Owner. We, being the mere object and recipient of love, have a duty to return it to its source. We are not to be jealous, since we have no claim to love other than to have received it for the purpose of returning it. For man to be jealous in love is to attempt to usurp God’s role as Creator, Source and Owner of all love.

A crude analogy: God is a generator of electricity, and we are His light bulbs. He sends His electricity to us, expecting that we will radiate that electricity back to Him on the form of light. We have no right to be jealous of the electricity, since we did not create it, but only received it. He, on the other hand, has every right to expect that what He sends us freely will be radiated back to Him.
 
po18guy said:
How about this: God is the source of all love, and so can be jealous - which means that He is due all love in return. He is love’s Creator and Owner. We, being the mere object and recipient of love, have a duty to return it to its source. We are not to be jealous, since we have no claim to love other than to have received it for the purpose of returning it. For man to be jealous in love is to attempt to usurp God’s role as Creator, Source and Owner of all love.

A crude analogy: God is a generator of electricity, and we are His light bulbs. He sends His electricity to us, expecting that we will radiate that electricity back to Him on the form of light. We have no right to be jealous of the electricity, since we did not create it, but only received it. He, on the other hand, has every right to expect that what He sends us freely will be radiated back to Him.
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I like this analogy a lot.
 
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