What to say if somebody says to me..."How did the kangaroos and koalas get to Australia? "

[LittleSoldier]

Wow. This is starting to look like a cat fight in which the cats had evolved prehensile hands, and the use of symbols.

What in the world is there in this topic to be worth so much emotional involvement? Since we don’t get to keep our human bodies, does it really matter what process they came from?

Doth it not behoove us better to work off our Purgatory?

God Bless and ICXC NIKA.

There are certain forum members who are so opposed to any theistic theories of evolution that meet Church criteria (even though the Church has given the green light to belief in these theories) that they will do just about anything to “prove” that evolution is impossible, anti-Church, and anti-God.

They will make accusations. They will make statements such as (paraphrasing): “There will be ushers at the door making sure that people believe in evolution and if they don’t they won’t be allowed into church,” etc. They will twist other members’ words (it’s happened to me) and then say the words are “nonsense.”

These members (at least the few I know) are not scientists, do not understand science, and certainly do not understand what a theory is. And sadly, they do not believe the Church.

God love you!!

 

[LittleSoldier]

Of course I have it exactly wrong

Goodbye twinc, probably see you on another thread…but not this one. I feel as though trying to argue the reality of evolution with you would be like taking a whiz in the wind.

Glad that Mendel is acceptable though, it’s a starting point. Read some of his work would you?

I am a Catholic. I also believe that evolution is true. These two things do not conflict. Now go and get as mad as you want.

HOOAH!!!

 

[thevoiceofone]

Wow. This is starting to look like a cat fight in which the cats had evolved prehensile hands, and the use of symbols.

What in the world is there in this topic to be worth so much emotional involvement? Since we don’t get to keep our human bodies, does it really matter what process they came from?

Doth it not behoove us better to work off our Purgatory?

Amen, brother!

 

[thevoiceofone]

Genesis tells me God created everything. Can you tell me, based on Genesis alone how God did it? Of course not. You will say it is a ‘mystery’.

But the Natural World is orderly and understandable. That is a fact. God made it that way. It’s why we try to predict the weather, mix chemicals together and kill microbes. So why is it so hard to believe that the human mind can learn how creation was done or at least get hints of what took place? What is so mind boggling about simple life forms evolving into more complex forms? It doesn’t change our humanity. It doesn’t eliminate an immortal soul, the breath of life given to us by God.

I still see no conflict between the Bible and evolution.

Absolutely… couldn’t have said it better.

 

[LittleSoldier]

of course you have it wrong - the Bible is inerrant in all its parts including those that touch on science and history etc for God is the author of the Bible and knows more about science than the finite presuming all knowing scientists he created - btw the Pope and the Magisterium have not OK’d the theory of Evolution as fact and have warned against accepting it as such or promulgating or teaching it as such - many Catholic scientists and priests have not and do not progress Evolution ideas and recognise that the theological implications are that Evolution is a doctrinal error parading in scientific guise - twinc

Of course the Pope and the Magisterium have not “OK’d the theory of Evolution as fact”!! Theories are theories. They are not facts and they cannot be proven. Every scientist knows that!

Are you actually saying that there is doctrinal error in the Church? Wouldn’t that mean that the gates of hell have prevailed and wouldn’t that in turn mean that Jesus was lying when He stated that the gates of hell shall not prevail? I don’t believe and will never believe that Jesus is a liar. His Church, His Bride, is error-free in dogma and doctrine; always has been and always will be.

The faithful are allowed to accept theistic theories of evolution that meet Church criteria. And that is exactly what I do.

The theories will continue to be honed as new knowledge is discovered. Certainly we do not know everything now regarding evolution. But proper science does lead to Truth and Truth can never contradict Truth.

God love you!!

 

[LittleSoldier]

God be with you too - search and study your Bible a bit more to see if these things be so and don’t get mad at me and God for if Evolution is true God is mad and so am I - twinc

I am absolutely shocked at how you seem to think you have some special ability to understand God’s emotions and that you personally know His limitations and His methods. If God wants evolution, God gets evolution, no matter how much you do not like it and even if it makes you mad.

The Church has not said that you must believe in any theory of evolution. It is acceptable to not accept any theory of evolution.

But you are going against Church teaching. And that is not acceptable.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Please. If you want to talk about science then talk about science.

Do you quote the Popes about quantum mechanics? Please. Stop this “the Popes gave a rubber stamp to it so you must believe” stuff.

God bless,
Ed

Ed, it is very simple. The Church says that we may accept theistic theories of evolution that meet Church criteria (those points you made a fuss about earlier in this thread).

I don’t care one whit if you believe in any theory of evolution. What makes me so angry at you is that you go against Church teaching. Oh, you’re sometimes careful about it, as in the quote above. But what you’ve said is wrong.

If the Church states that we may accept theistic theories of evolution that meet Church criteria, then we can, and for you to say it is wrong is going against Church teaching.

You either accept what the Church states or you don’t. You don’t seem to. And that angers me because I know the Church was founded by Jesus and He is my only reason for living right now. If it weren’t for Jesus I would take a gun to my head.

The Church does not state that you are required to accept a theistic theory of evolution which meets Church criteria.

So don’t!! It’s your choice!! But please stop telling or implying that those of us who do are somehow going against the Church.

Because we’re not. So there.

God love you.

 

[twinc]

Genesis tells me God created everything. Can you tell me, based on Genesis alone how God did it? Of course not. You will say it is a ‘mystery’.

But the Natural World is orderly and understandable. That is a fact. God made it that way. It’s why we try to predict the weather, mix chemicals together and kill microbes. So why is it so hard to believe that the human mind can learn how creation was done or at least get hints of what took place? What is so mind boggling about simple life forms evolving into more complex forms? It doesn’t change our humanity. It doesn’t eliminate an immortal soul, the breath of life given to us by God.

I still see no conflict between the Bible and evolution.

if you cannot see the conflict between the Bible and evolution,means for some unknown reason you cannot see so let me help you just a little bit - if you dont want to see or cannot see then I am wasting my time and yours - but lets give it a try - God is the creator of all things[Bible] vs Natural chance processes can account for the existence of all things[Evolution] - World created in six literal days[Bible] vs World evolved over aeons[Evolution] - Man before woman[Bible] vs Woman before man[Evolution] - Adam’s sin the cause of death[Bible] vs Struggle and death existent long before the evolution of man[Evolution] - Abundance and variety of marine life all at once[Bible[ vs Marine life gradually developed from a primitive organic blob[Evolution] - more later] - twinc

 

[LittleSoldier]

…Noah took the animals onto the ark, the earth was flooded, he released them afterwards.

How did the kangaroos and koalas get to Australia?

For a summary of various theories and beliefs regarding kangaroos in Australia, please follow this link:

conservapedia.com/Kangaroo

I’m not saying I agree or disagree with anything written here, nor will I debate what is said on this website with anyone. I’m just providing it for your information.

God love you.

 

[Prophesy]

if you cannot see the conflict between the Bible and evolution,means for some unknown reason you cannot see so let me help you just a little bit - if you dont want to see or cannot see then I am wasting my time and yours - but lets give it a try - God is the creator of all things[Bible] vs Natural chance processes can account for the existence of all things[Evolution] - World created in six literal days[Bible] vs World evolved over aeons[Evolution] - Man before woman[Bible] vs Woman before man[Evolution] - Adam’s sin the cause of death[Bible] vs Struggle and death existent long before the evolution of man[Evolution] - Abundance and variety of marine life all at once[Bible[ vs Marine life gradually developed from a primitive organic blob[Evolution] - more later] - twinc

Is the Book of Job literal? Can Satan stand before God among his Sons (Job1:6). Is there literally a beast called leviathan who can boil the sea like a pot of water? It is Church teaching that using only a literal understanding of Scripture is harmful exegesis. The Catechism gives 4 senses of Scripture in great detail.

-Prophecy

 

[twinc]

Ed, it is very simple. The Church says that we may accept theistic theories of evolution that meet Church criteria (those points you made a fuss about earlier in this thread).

I don’t care one whit if you believe in any theory of evolution. What makes me so angry at you is that you go against Church teaching. Oh, you’re sometimes careful about it, as in the quote above. But what you’ve said is wrong.

If the Church states that we may accept theistic theories of evolution that meet Church criteria, then we can, and for you to say it is wrong is going against Church teaching.

You either accept what the Church states or you don’t. You don’t seem to. And that angers me because I know the Church was founded by Jesus and He is my only reason for living right now. If it weren’t for Jesus I would take a gun to my head.

The Church does not state that you are required to accept a theistic theory of evolution which meets Church criteria.

So don’t!! It’s your choice!! But please stop telling or implying that those of us who do are somehow going against the Church.

Because we’re not. So there.

God love you.

but,but,but little soldier you are letting people tell you a lot of monkey business for you see they say this Jesus you love is descended from a monkey as was the first Adam but the Bible says they were both descended from God as Father[see Lk.3:38] - why not put the gun down and convert those who say these phony and untrue things - twinc

 

[edwest2]

Yes, but not HOW he did it.

You can choose to believe that.

God bless,
Ed

 

[edward_george]

You cannot be a Catholic and an evolutionist.

Either God created animals (which he did) or they evolved from other sources.

In Genesis is says that the flood covered the whole earth.

Science goes against God.

This is not really true. What if God created animals, and evolution was the means by which he did it? Your argument is akin to saying that either Michaelangelo painted the Sistine Chapel ceiling, or the brushstrokes applied themselves.

Perhaps in Genesis the phrase “the whole earth” means something along the lines of “the known world.” You have to recall that the writers of Sacred Scripture typically used analogy or imagery to explain realities which would not have otherwise been accessible to their audiences.

Science does not go against God, and there’s no reason to think it should. God is outside the bounds of what science is capable of observing, and so it must remain silent on God–neither for nor against. Furthermore, if science is against God, why does the Vatican have an observatory? Why were some of the greatest scientists in the world Catholic–and not only that, clergy? Gregor Mendel, father of genetics, was an Augustinian. Georges Lemaitre, the Belgian physicist who proposed the Big Bang theory, was a Catholic priest. Perhaps “bang” is the sound with which everything came into existence at the hand of God, and perhaps evolution is the brushstrokes which comprise God’s great work of life.

-ACEGC

 

[LittleSoldier]

but,but,but little soldier you are letting people tell you a lot of monkey business for you see they say this Jesus you love is descended from a monkey as was the first Adam but the Bible says they were both descended from God as Father[see Lk.3:38] - why not put the gun down and convert those who say these phony and untrue things - twinc

No credible theory of evolution, theistic or atheistic, claims that Jesus or any human being descended from a monkey. That is a horrible misconception and, unfortunately, shows that you don’t know even the basics of any scientific theory of evolution. I’m very sorry to say that and I don’t mean it as an insult, but it is true.

Everything descended from God. Everything was created by God ex nihilo. I accept the a theory of evolution that meets Church criteria. I can accept this as a faithful Catholic, which I am.

If I truly believed there were no God I would take my life because God is all I have to live for. But I truly believe in God and I don’t put limits on His power. Surely God could use evolution as His way of letting life change!! Are you saying God couldn’t do it? Isn’t He omnipotent?

My concern here is that several people in this thread are denying Church teaching. If you have decided what the Church is teaching is wrong as dogma or doctrine then you are saying the gates of hell have prevailed against Jesus’ Church. Isn’t that saying Jesus lied to Peter? Isn’t that saying Jesus lied to us? Would GOD lie to us?

As I stated to another poster (who will most likely ignore my post) I don’t care if you believe in evolution because it has nothing to do with your salvation. The Church has never stated that you must believe in evolution. So, fine. Don’t believe in it. And God be with you!!

But please, as a Catholic, please don’t tell me that I can’t believe in something the Catholic Church has stated I can believe in. Please. I know that you are concerned about me and what I believe and I do appreciate that. But I trust the Church.

God love you!!

 

[twinc]

Is the Book of Job literal? Can Satan stand before God among his Sons (Job1:6). Is there literally a beast called leviathan who can boil the sea like a pot of water? It is Church teaching that using only a literal understanding of Scripture is harmful exegesis. The Catechism gives 4 senses of Scripture in great detail.

-Prophecy

of course once again you have it all mixed up and amiss imho for the Church says the literal must always take precedence unless reason or necessity dictate otherwise - so come on and be as reasonable as the Church -anyway why not accept the literal and/or original than way out,weird and wacky alternatives -we do get pictures of fire breathing dragons and if you cup your hands and blow into them,which is what people do in winter you will be able to blow hot or warm air - btw the Church,like in the Catechism does not say literal only but literal also if not first - twinc

 

[Prophesy]

of course once again you have it all mixed up and amiss imho for the Church says the literal must always take precedence unless reason or necessity dictate otherwise

I have mixed up your opinion.

The Church has said that Genesis need not be taken literally (and the two conflicting accounts of creation should dictate that Genesis cannot be completely taken literally).

-Prophecy

 

[twinc]

I have mixed up your opinion.

The Church has said that Genesis need not be taken literally (and the two conflicting accounts of creation should dictate that Genesis cannot be completely taken literally).

-Prophecy

wrong again - there are not two conflicting or agreeing accounts of creation since there is only one account and how could it be otherwise - chances are that the humans who are spreading this around are wrong and not God for how could it be otherwise - btw Genesis can and should be taken literally and if not,why not and who says not - twinc

 

[croix_de_fer]

My understanding is the Church accepts evolution insofar organisms physically adapt/evolve to their environment and ecosystem but the Church is open minded about macro-evolution (human basically evolving from apes that evolved from tadpoles that evolved from amoeba (ocean bacteria). The Church does NOT accept nor deny macro evolution because there simply is not enough evidence either way. However if the Church did accept macro evolution, the Church would NOT require people to accept it because the Church only has authority and infallibility on moral issues and Christ’s teachings. If macro evolution was accepted, Genesis is still the Book of the beginning of Homosapien as we currently are today. The Church does not require Genesis to be taken literally word for word, but still upholds the Book’s Truth that: God created man (whether instantaneously or through evolution); man fell because he disobeyed God resulting in original sin; Satan is the seducer and corrupter of man; and we are saved by Christ:

“I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel” ~ Genesis 3:15 This is taken from the Douay-Rheims Bible which is the FIRST translation to English. “Thee” is the serpent (Satan) and the “woman” is Mary. “Her seed” is Christ and “thy seed” is the evil and works born from Satan. “She shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel” is Christ defeats Satan and saves us after Mary accepts the Fathers will and plan for her to bear His Son - our Savior.

Also the Church does NOT necessarily refute the Big Bang Theory nor does it accept it. In fact a Catholic priest and physicist, Georges Lemaitre, FIRST proposed the BBT. If the Church did accept it then the acceptance only acknowledges the physics of the universe being created but the Church also upholds the Truth that God is the Creator and responsible for such “physics”. Again, we are NOT required to accept BBT because the Church only has authority and infallibility over Christ’s teachings and moral issues.

If I’m wrong about any of this then somebody PLEASE correct me.

 

[Prophesy]

wrong again - there are not two conflicting or agreeing accounts of creation since there is only one account and how could it be otherwise - chances are that the humans who are spreading this around are wrong and not God for how could it be otherwise - btw Genesis can and should be taken literally and if not,why not and who says not - twinc

Who was created first, man or animals?

-Prophecy

 

[twinc]

Who was created first, man or animals?

-Prophecy

animals but both on the same day and almost instantly together - so man and dinosaurs and apes lived at the same time in harmony and as herbivores - twinc