What to think about Muslims now??!!???

[ahimsaman72]

That cartoon I find disturbing as well. I also find anti-Semitism disturbing. I also find racism disturbing. All of these things are disturbing and offending. That’s the whole point in this situation. People are going around offending others because they have the “right” to do so and of course it is the sacred “right” of people to have “free speech” as we all know.

So, if I know the buttons to push to make my wife go over the edge ballistic, should I push those buttons? Should I find every Jew I can (if I knew how to identify them) and spit on them and call them names? I don’t think that’s what you are saying, but it can be perceived that way.

Two wrongs don’t make a right. Just because someone offends us doesn’t mean we should get back at them any way we can. Unfortunately, now a Middle Eastern newspaper is holding a contest to see who can make up the funniest cartoons depicting Western ideas. This is equally and terribly wrong.

On the way home from work yesterday NPR radio was discussing England (London in particular) where a Muslim was sentenced for terrorism plots. The “moderate Muslim” community was reported to have agreed with the decision and called this man “embarrassing” for them and their faith. The reporter went on to say how the majority “moderate Muslim” community appealed for protests to stop and also for no more cartoons to be published.

I see all over this board misconceptions and mischaracterizations of the Muslim community and how they refuse to point out the wrongs of the killings of their fellow brothers. That idea is false. Muslims are speaking out about the attacks on embassies and acknowledging that they are wrong.

The Muslim community and Christian communities in England work together. They don’t oppose each other. Except for this fringe, rogue Muslim teacher in London who is by everyone’s account - (Christian and Muslim) an embarassment to his brothers in the faith.

Peace…

 

[StMarkEofE]

ahimsaman72:

That cartoon I find disturbing as well. I also find anti-Semitism disturbing. I also find racism disturbing. All of these things are disturbing and offending. That’s the whole point in this situation. People are going around offending others because they have the “right” to do so and of course it is the sacred “right” of people to have “free speech” as we all know.

So, if I know the buttons to push to make my wife go over the edge ballistic, should I push those buttons? Should I find every Jew I can (if I knew how to identify them) and spit on them and call them names? I don’t think that’s what you are saying, but it can be perceived that way.

Two wrongs don’t make a right. Just because someone offends us doesn’t mean we should get back at them any way we can. Unfortunately, now a Middle Eastern newspaper is holding a contest to see who can make up the funniest cartoons depicting Western ideas. This is equally and terribly wrong.

On the way home from work yesterday NPR radio was discussing England (London in particular) where a Muslim was sentenced for terrorism plots. The “moderate Muslim” community was reported to have agreed with the decision and called this man “embarrassing” for them and their faith. The reporter went on to say how the majority “moderate Muslim” community appealed for protests to stop and also for no more cartoons to be published.

I see all over this board misconceptions and mischaracterizations of the Muslim community and how they refuse to point out the wrongs of the killings of their fellow brothers. That idea is false. Muslims are speaking out about the attacks on embassies and acknowledging that they are wrong.

The Muslim community and Christian communities in England work together. They don’t oppose each other. Except for this fringe, rogue Muslim teacher in London who is by everyone’s account - (Christian and Muslim) an embarassment to his brothers in the faith.

Peace…

If one lives in a free society, one in which guarantees the freedom of expression in the media this will sometimes happen. It maybe tasteless and ignorant but it is protected nonetheless. If you want to control these media who print such stuff much like in the Middle East then it will come at the expense of personal freedoms. You cant have a free press and then expect censorship. You take the good with the bad and hope that people become responsible in their printing of such stuff. When in Rome do as the Romans do.

 

[Ella]

ahimsaman72, I really like your last post.

I think one of the hard things for me to understand is how different other parts of the world are, and even when I do sort of understand, it’s too easy to forget. Especially with the barrage of information from the media, which is colored by the source from which it emanates. The West thinks, rightly, that Islamic countries have censors on the information given to their citizens. However the West also has this phenomenon, only it is more subtle. I don’t think it’s a political activity in the West - it’s an economic censor - why show anything but the most sensational?

Yesterday I was feeling much like everyone else here - this is a war and the Muslims want to take over the world, all Muslims support terrorists, etc. etc…
I decided to watch a Frontline DVD last night called, “Muslims: An In Depth Look At What It Means To Be A Muslim In The 21st Century”.

Of course it’s biased. But it showed alot of people who do love God, even if I don’t agree with them about who God is. They dressed modestly, they prayed alot, they studied their Koran, they lived quiet lives. One was a woman who is also an OB/GYN. And I thought, “Why are Christians and Muslims pushed to be enemies? Don’t we two religions have common enemies - the secular hatred of religion, of things that are holy, of living a life pleasing to God and not centered on the pleasures of the body…”

You know who finds the cartoons the funniest? The athiests I know. They think the cartoons are great, just as they think the Piss Christ photos are great.

And then I thought, who gains power when these Muslim terrorists attack?

%between%

 

[Lance]

ahimsaman72:

That cartoon I find disturbing as well. I also find anti-Semitism disturbing. I also find racism disturbing. All of these things are disturbing and offending. That’s the whole point in this situation. People are going around offending others because they have the “right” to do so and of course it is the sacred “right” of people to have “free speech” as we all know.

What are you personally doing about it other than posting here? Have you organized demonstrations against this, written letters to the editor of your newspaper, spoken at your mosque?

ahimsaman72:

Two wrongs don’t make a right. Just because someone offends us doesn’t mean we should get back at them any way we can. Unfortunately, now a Middle Eastern newspaper is holding a contest to see who can make up the funniest cartoons depicting Western ideas. This is equally and terribly wrong.

Same questions as above.

ahimsaman72:

On the way home from work yesterday NPR radio was discussing England (London in particular) where a Muslim was sentenced for terrorism plots. The “moderate Muslim” community was reported to have agreed with the decision and called this man “embarrassing” for them and their faith. The reporter went on to say how the majority “moderate Muslim” community appealed for protests to stop and also for no more cartoons to be published.

Where are the mass demonstrations like we saw in Lebanon? There aren’t any because the moderate Muslim community is in the minority.

ahimsaman72:

I see all over this board misconceptions and mischaracterizations of the Muslim community and how they refuse to point out the wrongs of the killings of their fellow brothers. That idea is false. Muslims are speaking out about the attacks on embassies and acknowledging that they are wrong.

Peace.........

Where and when are they speaking out? Are you saying there is a conspiracy by the media all over the world to suppress the masive demonstrations by Muslims against terrorism and violence? There are no misconceptions and mischaracterizations of the Muslim community, it is more violent and suppressive than most people realize.

 

[Lance]

~~~~~I decided to watch a Frontline DVD last night called, “Muslims: An In Depth Look At What It Means To Be A Muslim In The 21st Century”.

Of course it’s biased. But it showed alot of people who do love God, even if I don’t agree with them about who God is. They dressed modestly, they prayed alot, they studied their Koran, they lived quiet lives. One was a woman who is also an OB/GYN.

[%between%](newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=1300063#)
[/quote]


If Islam ruled the world do you think this woman would be allowed to be any kind of doctor?  Look at what happened in Afghanistan when the Talaban took over.

 

[Eireann]

## Here’s “a nasty cartoon of the Pope”:

That’s it I’m off to throw stones at the police and army

Seriously though, all this over a cartoon catch a grip, they’re losing all credibility and any sympathy for them is fast waning, Donald Duck eat your heart out.

Peace http://bestsmileys.com/peace/2.gif

 

[Wolseley]

What to think about Muslims now?

Same as always—a religion of peace and a culture of war. A veneer of civilization and an inbred barbarism. A claim of tolerance and a proof of hatred and prejudice. And all of it covered by a blatant, overbearing hypocrisy.

 

[Booklover]

Wolseley:

What to think about Muslims now?

Same as always—a religion of peace and a culture of war. A veneer of civilization and an inbred barbarism. A claim of tolerance and a proof of hatred and prejudice. And all of it covered by a blatant, overbearing hypocrisy.

Wow! Excellent post!:clapping:

Vickie

 

[Booklover]

## Here’s “a nasty cartoon of the Pope”:



From here: jcpa.org/phas/phas-21.htm

"On 28 December 1999 - well before the second Palestinian uprising - Al-Hayat al-Jadida, the official Palestinian Authority journal, published a cartoon expressing this core idea. It depicted an old man in a djellaba, symbolizing the twentieth century, taking leave of a young man wearing a tee-shirt symbolizing the twenty-first century. In between them stood a small Jew with a Star of David on his breast, above which an arrow pointed to him saying, 'the illness of the century.'2

“A few months later on 22 March 2000, the same journal ran another cartoon showing a large Pope talking to a small Jew with the skin, feet, and tail of an animal, and a big hooked nose, wearing a kippa. The Pope exclaimed ‘Peace on Earth’ while the Satanic-looking Jew calls out ‘Colonies on Earth.’” ##

Excellent points ​

They want freedom to make cartoons of the Pope - they go mad if we make cartoons of you know who.

Not everyone agrees that all the world is rightfully Muslim - so, we don’t assume that only Muslim ways are to be followed. So, they can’t blame us for being un-Muslim. They are the ones who think all men are Muslim by nature - we don’t. That is what has not been understood. ##

Of course, when they do it, it’s alright! When we do it, they go ballistic! Talk about double standards.

Vickie

 

[ahimsaman72]

StMarkEofE:

If one lives in a free society, one in which guarantees the freedom of expression in the media this will sometimes happen. It maybe tasteless and ignorant but it is protected nonetheless. If you want to control these media who print such stuff much like in the Middle East then it will come at the expense of personal freedoms. You cant have a free press and then expect censorship. You take the good with the bad and hope that people become responsible in their printing of such stuff. When in Rome do as the Romans do.

I don’t advocate censorship. I advocate moral and ethical responsiblity on the part of the press and every citizen in every country. I love democracy and freedoms. But, just because I have the freedom to do whatever my heart desires doesn’t mean I should do so. Every action, thought and word I have performed has an effect on everyone around me. Therefore, I must be responsible and think of others first.

Peace…

 

[ahimsaman72]

Lance:

What are you personally doing about it other than posting here? Have you organized demonstrations against this, written letters to the editor of your newspaper, spoken at your mosque?

I just found out about all of this two days ago and don’t plan on demonstrations. I want the whole thing to die down and cool off so that cooler heads will prevail. My local newspaper hasn’t published the pictures. I don’t go to a Mosque - I’m Buddhist!

Same questions as above.

same answer as above

Where are the mass demonstrations like we saw in Lebanon? There aren’t any because the moderate Muslim community is in the minority.

Does someone have to have a demonstration and go out into the streets to protest? Personally, I don’t think it’s a good idea. I think it would only cause more problems. Speaking out and calling for calmness is the best approach.

Where and when are they speaking out? Are you saying there is a conspiracy by the media all over the world to suppress the masive demonstrations by Muslims against terrorism and violence? There are no misconceptions and mischaracterizations of the Muslim community, it is more violent and suppressive than most people realize.

I just told you earlier. Moderate Muslim leaders (don’t remember the names and couldn’t pronounce them even if I could) were vocally calling out in the local media for the rioting to stop. This was an NPR broadcast and I will have to search for it to get specifics. I can do so if you like.

Conspiracy? Well, I definitely see bias on both sides. I wouldn’t characterize what’s going on in the media as a “conspiracy”. I would characterize it as misleading and irresponsible reporting.

Peace…

 

[ahimsaman72]

Ella:

ahimsaman72, I really like your last post.

I think one of the hard things for me to understand is how different other parts of the world are, and even when I do sort of understand, it’s too easy to forget. Especially with the barrage of information from the media, which is colored by the source from which it emanates. The West thinks, rightly, that Islamic countries have censors on the information given to their citizens. However the West also has this phenomenon, only it is more subtle. I don’t think it’s a political activity in the West - it’s an economic censor - why show anything but the most sensational?

Yesterday I was feeling much like everyone else here - this is a war and the Muslims want to take over the world, all Muslims support terrorists, etc. etc…
I decided to watch a Frontline DVD last night called, “Muslims: An In Depth Look At What It Means To Be A Muslim In The 21st Century”.

Of course it’s biased. But it showed alot of people who do love God, even if I don’t agree with them about who God is. They dressed modestly, they prayed alot, they studied their Koran, they lived quiet lives. One was a woman who is also an OB/GYN. And I thought, “Why are Christians and Muslims pushed to be enemies? Don’t we two religions have common enemies - the secular hatred of religion, of things that are holy, of living a life pleasing to God and not centered on the pleasures of the body…”

You know who finds the cartoons the funniest? The athiests I know. They think the cartoons are great, just as they think the Piss Christ photos are great.

And then I thought, who gains power when these Muslim terrorists attack?

Thanks Ella.

We have to realize that there is no black and white on Islam and its adherents. It’s wrong to say they are all ### and ^^^ and *** and it is equally wrong to say they are all peaceful, loving, kind, considerate, etc. etc. We as humans do good things and bad things and neutral things. That’s the way we are.

People are people, caucasian, hispanic, rich, poor, Muslim and Christian and on and on. The points we hold in common are that we all come from the same source, have basically the same needs and desires and like it our not, we all belong to the same family and race called humans.

I advocate understanding and peace rather than mis-understanding and violence to solve problems. I hope you do too.

Peace…

 

[wjohnson]

ahimsaman72:

I don’t advocate censorship. I advocate moral and ethical responsiblity on the part of the press and every citizen in every country. I love democracy and freedoms. But, just because I have the freedom to do whatever my heart desires doesn’t mean I should do so. Every action, thought and word I have performed has an effect on everyone around me. Therefore, I must be responsible and think of others first.

Peace…

And I agree.

It just seems everyone keeps making excuses for the reactions to these stupid cartoons. The hatred and violence being displayed was there before the cartoon’s were published, they were an excuse to display it. Thats whats frieghtining people I believe.

 

[ahimsaman72]

Lance:

If Islam ruled the world do you think this woman would be allowed to be any kind of doctor? Look at what happened in Afghanistan when the Talaban took over.

The Taliban was a fundamentalist Islamic regime that oppressed their people by force. Compare that country to Saudi Arabia or Kuwait. Those countries are conservative and have strict laws (which I don’t agree with) but they have a much better society than Afghanistan.

You can’t compare apples to oranges and get the same thing. The Taliban regime (that’s right - regime) are a far cry from the Islamic states of other Middle-Eastern and North African countries.

Peace…

 

[ahimsaman72]

wjohnson:

And I agree.

It just seems everyone keeps making excuses for the reactions to these stupid cartoons. The hatred and violence being displayed was there before the cartoon’s were published, they were an excuse to display it. Thats whats frieghtining people I believe.

And I agree.

Both sides were wrong here. The cartoons shouldn’t have existed and published and the violent reaction by some in the Muslim community is not acceptable under any circumstances.

Tensions were already high - yes, which is all the more reason to NOT publish such material and cause further deterioration of relations with Islam and their respective countries.

Peace…

 

[Lance]

ahimsaman72:

The Taliban was a fundamentalist Islamic regime that oppressed their people by force. Compare that country to Saudi Arabia or Kuwait. Those countries are conservative and have strict laws (which I don’t agree with) but they have a much better society than Afghanistan.

You can’t compare apples to oranges and get the same thing. The Taliban regime (that’s right - regime) are a far cry from the Islamic states of other Middle-Eastern and North African countries.

Peace…

Since most of the 9/11 hi-jackers and planners came from Saudi Arabia, I must disagree with you that I am comparing apples and oranges. They have a better society because they have oil and want to do business with the west. If the oil ran out tomorrow and they had no incentive to do business with the west they would revert to barbaric states within a year.

 

[ahimsaman72]

Lance:

Since most of the 9/11 hi-jackers and planners came from Saudi Arabia, I must disagree with you that I am comparing apples and oranges. They have a better society because they have oil and want to do business with the west. If the oil ran out tomorrow and they had no incentive to do business with the west they would revert to barbaric states within a year.

They were extremists not affiliated with the government or the religious leadership of Saudi Arabia. In fact, Saudi Arabia has fought hard against extremism in their country. They have had to deal with many bombings and many terrorist groups. The same can be said for Pakistan. They continue to shun this kind of behavior and crack down on militants.

It’s hard to say what any person would do, much less an entire nation if the mutual business interests were gone. I think it’s best to be cautious, but err on the side of reason and not emotion.

“Speak softly and carry a big stick”

Peace…

 

[Lance]

ahimsaman72:

They were extremists not affiliated with the government or the religious leadership of Saudi Arabia. In fact, Saudi Arabia has fought hard against extremism in their country. They have had to deal with many bombings and many terrorist groups. The same can be said for Pakistan. They continue to shun this kind of behavior and crack down on militants.

It’s hard to say what any person would do, much less an entire nation if the mutual business interests were gone. I think it’s best to be cautious, but err on the side of reason and not emotion.

“Speak softly and carry a big stick”

Peace…

Usama Bin Ladin’s family has very close ties with the Saudi government, which did absolutly nothing to crack down on extremism until the US put pressure on them after 9/11.

 

[ahimsaman72]

Lance:

Usama Bin Ladin’s family has very close ties with the Saudi government, which did absolutly nothing to crack down on extremism until the US put pressure on them after 9/11.

His brothers have basically disowned him and other family members have changed their names because of him. Bin Laden has a niece here in the states that changed her name because she wants nothing to do with him or his crazy ways. She says she wants to be an American and live like an American and wants nothing to do with this kind of nonsense. There was a news article a couple months ago that spoke about this lady. It was through Yahoo! news.

So, unless you have some strong evidence I would be hesitant to claim the close ties scenario between Bin Laden family and the Saudi government.

Peace…

 

[Wildgraywolf]

Wolseley:

What to think about Muslims now?

Same as always—a religion of peace and a culture of war. A veneer of civilization and an inbred barbarism. A claim of tolerance and a proof of hatred and prejudice. And all of it covered by a blatant, overbearing hypocrisy.

Ten-or-so years ago I would have strongly disagreed with you Wolseley, but now your post reflects nearly perfectly my opinion on Muslims and Islam.