What to think of a very modern mass?

[GPGT]

I generally go to an EF mass but Sunday I decided to go to a late mass a friend told me about at a Catholic church I’d never heard of before. It was about the least formal mass I’ve been to; not even sure I heard a creed said though I may have missed them singing it. Yet it was very intimate; basically everyone met and shook hands beforehand. It was basically a sung mass with newer music, piano and guitars, and I think even a sax at one point. I wasn’t crazy about being asked my take on the gospel by someone in attendance during the homily. The only time the preist went on the altar was during the offertory and for the consecration, which the two handfuls in attendance were invited onto the altar for. Veneration was surely lacking and I felt bad myself for not kneeling during the consecration (where we were invited to “bow” at two parts), figuring it would be seen as being done out of protest. I found it odd that the preist, even during consecration, kept using the term “the Christ” (ie. “Jesus ‘the’ Christ”). I’ve decided not to be upset of the lack of rubrics followed and the likely litirgical abuses, but to actually be happy to be part of a faith that believes the same thing yet can celebrate it in different ways. It was a mass for new and non-Catholics and those needing spirutial guidance and is put on once a month. If I ever go again I’ll need to lead by example, and will perhaps still attend an EF mass the morning of.

 

[Phemie]

I generally go to an EF mass but Sunday I decided to go to a late mass a friend told me about at a Catholic church I’d never heard of before. It was about the least formal mass I’ve been to; not even sure I heard a creed said though I may have missed them singing it. Yet it was very intimate; basically everyone met and shook hands beforehand. It was basically a sung mass with newer music, piano and guitars, and I think even a sax at one point. I wasn’t crazy about being asked my take on the gospel by someone in attendance during the homily. The only time the preist went on the altar was during the offertory and for the consecration, which the two handfuls in attendance were invited onto the altar for. Veneration was surely lacking and I felt bad myself for not kneeling during the consecration (where we were invited to “bow” at two parts), figuring it would be seen as being done out of protest. I found it odd that the preist, even during consecration, kept using the term “the Christ” (ie. “Jesus ‘the’ Christ”). I’ve decided not to be upset of the lack of rubrics followed and the likely litirgical abuses, but to actually be happy to be part of a faith that believes the same thing yet can celebrate it in different ways. It was a mass for new and non-Catholics and those needing spirutial guidance and is put on once a month. If I ever go again I’ll need to lead by example, and will perhaps still attend an EF mass the morning of.

Because, of course, the best way to give spiritual guidance to new Catholics and non-Catholics is to expose them to a Mass that throws rubrics out the window and has the priest doing whatever he wants and violating the rule that says that no one, not even a priest, can change anything in the Mass of his own accord.

I would stay away from this one unless there is no other option.

 

[Nacho45]

Because, of course, the best way to give spiritual guidance to new Catholics and non-Catholics is to expose them to a Mass that throws rubrics out the window and has the priest doing whatever he wants and violating the rule that says that no one, not even a priest, can change anything in the Mass of his own accord.

I would stay away from this one unless there is no other option.

I would stay away even if there was no other option.

I attended a Mass that started the same way. Drums, guitars, hand clapping, Protestant sounding music. I thought I was back in a Baptist service. I lasted 15 minutes and left, got in my car and drove to the Orthodox parish to attend Liturgy. It was like taking a bath after walking through mud.

I abhor modern “Christianity.” It isn’t about entertainment, it is about worship. Although I realize the Mass I attended is the exception, I have not been able to bring myself to attend another, but I think I am about ready to try.

 

[seagal]

The word Christ comes from the Greek word christos, meaning anointed. So saying “Jesus the Christ” is not improper, it simply means Jesus, the anointed one.

 

[clem456]

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=762798

Moratorium: Complaint threads/posts

---

Please don’t post complaints about any liturgy/ordained/parish. You may ask questions about the liturgy and the sacraments, but please don’t complain about what you saw or heard. Don’t post negative comments about what the Church allows, Complaint/negative threads/posts will be removed. Thank you, everyone, for your understanding and cooperation.

 

[Ragamuffingirl]

I don’t understand what rubics means, but I keep hearing it.

I come from a Quaker background, so I would absolutely hate what is described in the first post. The 7:30 Mass in my parish has no music at all, the priest is a master of 10 sentence homilies, and that is the Mass I normally attend.

However, a couple of weeks ago, they had all of the RCIA participants come to a later Mass, and they skipped the Gloria. I was very confused by that. I also know that I’ve gone to Masses during the week and on holy days of obligation, and they also seemed to skip something. There was one where they skipped the Our Father. I’d never been at a Mass where they skipped the Our Father before. So far, I have never ever been at a Mass where a creed wasn’t said.

Singing the Our Father strikes me as very irreverent , but I’m the sourpuss who goes to the Mass without any music at all.

 

[Nacho45]

Oops! My apologies.

 

[Ragamuffingirl]

Oh yeah - what does EF mean?

 

[johnnyc176]

I recently posted this in another thread but it applies to this one also I think. We should all be concerned about liturgy.

Liturgical abuse is still a concern but it is getting better. Cardinal Raymond Burke addresses here in a recent article and gives us reasons why we should still be concerned with liturgical abuse.

zenit.org/en/articles/bringing-the-liturgy-back-to-the-real-vatican-ii

Here are a couple of selected statements but the whole article should be read.

ZENIT: Some also say that to be concerned with liturgical law is being unduly legalistic, that it’s a stifling of the spirit. How should one respond to that? Why should we be concerned about liturgical law?

Cardinal Burke: Liturgical law disciplines us so that we have the freedom to worship God, otherwise we’re captured – we’re the victims or slaves either of our own individual ideas, relative ideas of this or that, or of the community or whatever else. But the liturgical law safeguards the objectivity of sacred worship and opens up that space within us, that freedom to offer worship to God as He desires, so we can be sure we’re not worshipping ourselves or, at the same time, as Aquinas says, some kind of falsification of divine worship.

ZENIT: Does this mirror the loss of the sacred in society as a whole?

Cardinal Burke: It does indeed. There’s no question in my mind that the abuses in the sacred liturgy, reduction of the sacred liturgy to some kind of human activity, is strictly correlated with a lot of moral corruption and with a levity in catechesis that has been shocking and has left generations of Catholics ill prepared to deal with the challenges of our time by addressing the Catholic faith to those challenges. You can see it in the whole gamut of Church life.

And of course right up until the end of his pontificate Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI was very much concerned about the liturgy.

This from October of last year…

ncregister.com/daily-news/pope-benedict-the-liturgy-is-celebrated-for-god-and-not-for-ourselves/

Pope Benedict noted that when priests or parishioners reflect on how to make the liturgy “attractive, interesting and beautiful,” they can “risk forgetting the essential; that is: The liturgy is celebrated for God and not for ourselves.”

 

[johnnyc176]

Oh yeah - what does EF mean?

Extraordinary Form of the Mass

sanctamissa.org/en/faq/the-roman-rite-and-the-extraordinary-form.html

 

[Ragamuffingirl]

But, what does it mean? Is it in Latin?

 

[johnnyc176]

But, what does it mean? Is it in Latin?

It is sometimes called the ‘Traditional Latin Mass’ as this Mass is always celebrated in the official language of the Church (i.e. Latin).

 

[TimothyH]

I don’t understand what rubics means, but I keep hearing it.

I come from a Quaker background, so I would absolutely hate what is described in the first post. The 7:30 Mass in my parish has no music at all, the priest is a master of 10 sentence homilies, and that is the Mass I normally attend.

However, a couple of weeks ago, they had all of the RCIA participants come to a later Mass, and they skipped the Gloria. I was very confused by that. I also know that I’ve gone to Masses during the week and on holy days of obligation, and they also seemed to skip something. There was one where they skipped the Our Father. I’d never been at a Mass where they skipped the Our Father before. So far, I have never ever been at a Mass where a creed wasn’t said.

Singing the Our Father strikes me as very irreverent , but I’m the sourpuss who goes to the Mass without any music at all.

Certain things can be omitted, or to put it another way, some things can be added depending on whether it is a weekday Mass, Sunday Mass, optional memorial, feast or solemnity. The Gloria is not always said, especially at weekday “low” Mass. I’m not sure about the Creed.

There is nothing wrong with a ten sentence homily, especially at an early morning weekday Mass. People have to get to work and some of the best homilies I have every heard were very short and to the point. The priest does not have to give a homily outside of a Sunday Mass or other Holy Day.

The book the priest reads the prayers from in the Mass is called the Roman Missal. It contains the rubrics - what the priest and people are to do. It tells the priest what to say, when to bow, when to clasp his hands together, when to raise the paten and chalice, etc. These are the rubrics.

-Tim-

 

[bilop]

Certain things can be omitted, or to put it another way, some things can be added depending on whether it is a weekday Mass, Sunday Mass, optional memorial, feast or solemnity. The Gloria is not always said, especially at weekday “low” Mass. I’m not sure about the Creed.

-Tim-

The Creed and Gloria are not part of a typical weekday Mass. Only on Sundays and other Feast Days.

God Bless

 

[JRTJ]

Sounds like you witnessed an exemplary form of liturgical abuse.

As others have pointed out, I suggest you stay away from a Mass that doesn’t conform to Catholic Liturgical rubrics.

I STRONGLY ENCOURAGE you to contact your local Bishop and make him aware of the liturgical abuses taking place in this particular church. More often than not, a Church that defies teachings on the Liturgy also defies Moral Teachings, which could put many souls in danger. Liberal dissenters frequently outwardly express their dissent by perverting the Liturgy. This is not to be tolerated and it is your duty and obligation to report what you witnessed to higher Church authorities.

God bless

 

[Ragamuffingirl]

The 7:30 Mass I go to is on Sunday morning. I don’t usually go to weekday Mass unless it’s a holy day of obligation and there’s a special evening Mass to accommodate that.

Why is it called a Rubric? Why not Order or something like that?

 

[janeway529]

I generally go to an EF mass but Sunday I decided to go to a late mass a friend told me about at a Catholic church I’d never heard of before. It was about the least formal mass I’ve been to; not even sure I heard a creed said though I may have missed them singing it. Yet it was very intimate; basically everyone met and shook hands beforehand. It was basically a sung mass with newer music, piano and guitars, and I think even a sax at one point. I wasn’t crazy about being asked my take on the gospel by someone in attendance during the homily. The only time the preist went on the altar was during the offertory and for the consecration, which the two handfuls in attendance were invited onto the altar for. Veneration was surely lacking and I felt bad myself for not kneeling during the consecration (where we were invited to “bow” at two parts), figuring it would be seen as being done out of protest. I found it odd that the preist, even during consecration, kept using the term “the Christ” (ie. “Jesus ‘the’ Christ”). I’ve decided not to be upset of the lack of rubrics followed and the likely litirgical abuses, but to actually be happy to be part of a faith that believes the same thing yet can celebrate it in different ways. It was a mass for new and non-Catholics and those needing spirutial guidance and is put on once a month. If I ever go again I’ll need to lead by example, and will perhaps still attend an EF mass the morning of.

Is your friend and this group part of a particular ecclesiastical movement? Or is the parish run by a particular religious order? It might reflect a difference in style, which you noticed, as religious do have the leeway for some pastoral considerations (the Jesuits, for example).

I’ve heard Jesus ‘the Christ’ used by a priest at a regular parish, so you’re not the only one that’s weirded out by it.

 

[juno24]

Why is it called a Rubric? Why not Order or something like that?

Because the word “rubric” in general terms means a set of instructions. Specifically, the word means a set of instructions for conducting a religious service.

 

[PJM]

=GPGT;11367799]I generally go to an EF mass but Sunday I decided to go to a late mass a friend told me about at a Catholic church I’d never heard of before. It was about the least formal mass I’ve been to; not even sure I heard a creed said though I may have missed them singing it. Yet it was very intimate; basically everyone met and shook hands beforehand. It was basically a sung mass with newer music, piano and guitars, and I think even a sax at one point. I wasn’t crazy about being asked my take on the gospel by someone in attendance during the homily. The only time the preist went on the altar was during the offertory and for the consecration, which the two handfuls in attendance were invited onto the altar for. Veneration was surely lacking and I felt bad myself for not kneeling during the consecration (where we were invited to “bow” at two parts), figuring it would be seen as being done out of protest. I found it odd that the preist, even during consecration, kept using the term “the Christ” (ie. “Jesus ‘the’ Christ”). I’ve decided not to be upset of the lack of rubrics followed and the likely litirgical abuses, but to actually be happy to be part of a faith that believes the same thing yet can celebrate it in different ways. It was a mass for new and non-Catholics and those needing spirutial guidance and is put on once a month. If I ever go again I’ll need to lead by example, and will perhaps still attend an EF mass the morning of.

MY DEAR FRIEND IN CHRIST;

AVOID THIS IN THE FUTURE WHY?

Because “the Mass” THE SACRED LITURGY belonges to the “Church” not the priest celebrant.

ANY [and all] changes MUST be pre-approved by ROME.

One God

ONE SET OF FAITH BELIEFS

One Church [not up for grabs]

DO NOT SUPPORT IN ANY WAY these actions

 

[GPGT]

Again I think I would only go had I been to a EF mass earlier in the day. I was thinking of asking the priest had I had the chance if the church offers an EF mass, knowing they don’t. And yes, the church is run by Jesuits. I am interested in seeing how the regular Sunday masses are performed there as this was to be something of a ‘special’ mass.