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avflf
Guest
Not really. The individual that wrote “The Gospel according to St. John”, at the end of the first Century, wrote what he thought Jesus had said.
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PJM
Guest
An informed Practicing Roman Catholic responce
**The Catholic Church does not teach **that one is “saved through the Holy Mass.!”
However, we are saved by Jesus Christ correct? Yes we are!
In Catholic Holy Communion, which is celebrated as part of the Mass, Catholic bishops and priest follow our Blessed Lords personal MANDATE to “do this in Memory of Me!” See Lk.22:19-21, 1 Cor.11: 23-26, Mt. 26: 26-28 and Mk. 14:22-24, as well as all of John Chapter 6.
There is, nor can their be a GREATER source of the grace that we all need from God to cooperate with God’s plan for our Salvation, than to receive the actual and Real Glorified Body, Blood, and Devinity of our God Himself. Catholics alone are blessed with this gift Of God, By God, For God, and our personal salvation.
Protestants often accept an unbiblical teaching that Christ death results is OSAS, which is anti-God’s very nature and not at all what the meaning of out Lords life, death abd Resureaction actually accomplished which is **humanites Redeemption
NOT salvation which the bible clearly time and time again tells us that Salvation is a process, ungoing until we die! **
1 Thes. 5: 8 “But, since we belong to the day, let us be sober, and put on the breastplate of faith and love, and for a helmet the hope of salvation”
2 Tim. 3: 14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
Rom. 13: 11"Besides this you know what hour it is, how it is full time now for you to wake from sleep. For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed; the night is far gone, the day is at hand. Let us then cast off the works of darkness and put on the armor of light; let us conduct ourselves becomingly as in the day, not in reveling and drunkenness, not in debauchery and licentiousness, not in quarreling and jealousy. But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.
2 Cot. 7: 10 “For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation and brings no regret, but worldly grief produces death.”
1 Pet. 2: 1"So put away all malice and all guile and insincerity and envy and all slander. 2 Like newborn babes, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up to salvation; 3 for you have tasted the kindness of the Lord.
Were it not so, there would be no Commandments to keep, no good works to perform,
and NO JUSTICE in God!
**Eph. 2: 8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God not because of works, lest any man should boast. **10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. ****
Heb. 6: "10 For God is not so unjust as to overlook your work and the love which you showed for his sake in serving the saints, as you still do. And we desire each one of you to show the same earnestness in realizing the full assurance of hope until the end, so that you may not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promise
**
And read James Chapter 2, and 2 Tim.3:16**
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SHW
Guest
John 6:53 “Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.”
RSV "So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;”
We receive Jesus’ Body and Blood only because of the Mass. It is during the Mass that the bread and wine are changed into the Body/Flesh and Blood of Christ. So, do you think that the Mass just might have a part in our salvation? I believe it does since Jesus states it does. Receiving His Body and Blood helps us to “remain/abide” in Him until our deaths so that we can inherit eternal life.
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SHW
Guest
Thessalonians 4:1-2 “Finally then, brethren, we urge and exhort in the Lord Jesus that you should abound more and more, just as you received from us how you ought to walk and to please God; 2 for you know what commandments we gave you through the Lord Jesus.”Not really. The individual that wrote “The Gospel according to St. John”, at the end of the first Century, wrote what he thought Jesus had said.
1 Corinthians 14:37 “If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord.”
Is Scripture the inspired inerrant Word of God in regards to faith and morals, or not? Why would an “inspired” author have to guess at what Jesus said?
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SHW
Guest
Is all Scripture inspired or not? Find the answer here: (2 Timothy 3:16)
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PJM
Guest
**2 Tim. 3:16 "All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
**
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Mailman
Guest
God certainly wants us to repent and return to His Way. As you correctly pointed out, God has been appealing to humankind ever since Adam and Eve rejected His Way. But man has since followed the way of Adam and his sin has separated him from God. God’s great plan of salvation started with one man, Abraham, and one nation, Israel. Through this nation God raised up His prophets, and in due time, God’s own Son, Jesus Christ. Unless man repents and accepts Christ as his Savior, he will remain cut off from God with no hope of salvation (no hope of eternal life and entering God’s Kingdom).
Christ’s good news was of the coming establishment of the Kingdom of God/heaven. His death and resurrection made possible man’s entrance into that Kingdom. The real liberation of the oppressed will happen only when the Kingdom is finally established, so Christ’s gospel, in a way, includes a message of liberation. All those who will qualify to be in the Kingdom will join God in the work of liberation and in “the restoration of all things.”
But what is the Kingdom of God/heaven? For forty days after His resurrection, Christ spoke about this Kingdom of God whenever He appeared to His disciples (Acts 1:3). According to the Scriptures, that Kingdom is a literal kingdom which will be established on earth. Its establishment will end an age [the age of Satan] and begin a new one (Matt. 24:3). This “new age” will find the world in unparalleled peace (Mic. 4:3-4). It will be at peace even in the realm of nature (Isa. 11:6). In this new age, Mankind will be given a new heart and spirit (Eze. 11:19-20) and nations will learn God’s Way (Mic. 4:2). Jesus Christ will be King (Isa. 9:6-7) and He will rule the nations of the earth “with a rod of iron” (Psa. 2:9; Rev. 12:5; 19:15). But He is not going to do this ruling alone. The saints [the resurrected saved] will rule with Christ (Rev. 2:26-27). It will be the perfect world government because it is the government of God Almighty. It will be the only hope of justice, of peace, of right solutions to all this world’s problems. During this age, sickness and disease will be healed (Isa. 35:5-6). The earth will enjoy agricultural abundance (Amos 9:13-14; Eze. 34:26-27), with wastelands being transformed into tillable lands (Isa. 35:6-7). There will be good health, joy and plenty upon the earth when this “new age” will come (Jer. 30:17; 31:12-14). That is Christ’s wonderful message, His good news – His Gospel – to us: He will set up His Kingdom to usher in a time of utopia for the peoples on this earth!
God bless.
M
Mailman
Guest
Yes, I have attended Mass. I was raised a Catholic and remained one until I was about 20 or so. But that was a long time ago coz I’m in my early 50’s now. You may be right about the statement being said before the reading, and not after. I really can’t remember now. Anyway, rest assured I’m not out to deceive anyone. My religion says “Christian,” not “Catholic.” Everyone knows that anyone who puts in his/her religion as “Christian” could not be a Catholic.
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Mailman
Guest
The gospel of the kingdom includes reconciliation because one cannot enter the kingdom without first being reconciled to God.
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fbl9
Guest
Is this your way of saying that one who claims to be catholic is not a christian?
In your zeal to bash the church your memory failed you,which often happens to me too, and you got this thread started with the idea of proving the church does not teach the gospel…which it turns out that the church does indeed teach from the gospel of Jesus.
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avflf
Guest
When 2 Timothy was written the Gospel of John wasn’t even in thought form so it does not refer to John or, in fact, to any of the other Gospels as they came to be after the Epistles. This and the one in 2 Peter 1:20,21 refer to the Old Testament Septuagint Text that was used by the Apostles at the time2 Tim. 3:16 "All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
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PJM
Guest
**Friend,
At best that is you’re own wishful thinking, to solidify some point you wish to make.
What does “Inspired mean?”
What does “Word of God” mean?
What does “all” mean?
And finally was is you’re evidence [sorry you’re opinion does not count when making radical statements] of this “claim?”**
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avflf
Guest
Firstly, it is not my “wishful thinking”, it is a fact. The Gospels were written long after Paul’s Epistles. Secondly, Paul wrote those verses because at that time there was a quaint belief that the Septuagint came about by Divine intervention. You see, there was this story going around that 70 Hebrew scholars (hence the name “Septuagint”) were locked up in cells and tasked to translate the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek and when they came out all the translations, all 70 of them, were word for word the same. A cute story that Paul and the folks of the 1st Century believed to be true, hence his “all scripture is given …etc, etc”. Now, really, didn’t you know this?
As far as “inspired” and “word of God” goes where do you get that from, apart from Paul’s belief in the magical workings of the Greek translation?
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PJM
Guest
Friend,
Thank you for yet another personal opinion with zero evidence support.
Remind me why we should believe you, and please don’t simply tell us its the truth.
Love and prayers,
T
trogiah
Guest
According to the Scriptures, Jesus message was this:":The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Reform your lives and believe in the good news"
My understanding of that is that Jesus was telling people that God stands ready to rule in their life and that they would be much better off if God did rule in their life rather than anyone or anything else.
When Jesus sent his disciples on mission he told them to say the same thing. "The reign of God is at hand.
Jim
My understanding of that is that Jesus was telling people that God stands ready to rule in their life and that they would be much better off if God did rule in their life rather than anyone or anything else.
When Jesus sent his disciples on mission he told them to say the same thing. "The reign of God is at hand.
Jim
A
avflf
Guest
From the Encyclopedia Britannica 2009 Edition
*abbreviation Lxx,
the earliest extant Greek translation of the Old Testament from the original Hebrew, presumably made for the use of the Jewish community in Egypt when Greek was the lingua franca throughout the region. Analysis of the language has established that the Torah, or Pentateuch (the first five books of the Old Testament), was translated near the middle of the 3rd century BC and that the rest of the Old Testament was translated in the 2nd century BC.
The name Septuagint (from the Latin septuaginta, “70”) was derived later from the legend that there were 72 translators, 6 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel, who worked in separate cells, translating the whole, and in the end all their versions were identical. In fact there are large differences in style and usage between the Septuagint’s translation of the Torah and its translations of the later books in the Old Testament. A tradition that translators were sent to Alexandria by Eleazar, the chief priest at Jerusalem, at the request of Ptolemy II Philadelphus (285–246 BC), a patron of literature, first appeared in the Letter of Aristeas, an unreliable source.*
My apologies … Britannica puts the number of scholars as 72 not 70 though in other references the number is 70.
Also from Barnes Notes On The New Testament under 2 Tim. 3:16 “This properly refers to the Old Testamwnt and should not be applied to any part of the New Testament …”
Now to my question. Where else in the Bible does it say that it was “inspired” or that it was indeed “the word of God”?
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PJM
Guest
Thank you, now was that so hard?
And St. Jerome translated the Greek, Ameriac, and Latin, into a single one language Bibile in Latin, in about the year 400 AD.
This was the only Christian Bible in existence until about 1610, when the Vulgate was translated into English, called the Doury Rheimes Bible.
www.newadvent.org
"St. Jerome owes his place in the history of exegetical studies chiefly to his revisions and translations of the Bible. Until about 391-2, he considered the Septuagint translation as inspired. But the progress of his Hebraistic studies and his intercourse with the rabbis made him give up that idea, and he recognized as inspired the original text only. It was about this period that he undertook the translation of the Old Testament from the Hebrew. But he went too far in his reaction against the ideas of his time, and is open to reproach for not having sufficiently appreciated the Septuagint. This latter version was made from a much older, and at times much purer, Hebrew text than the one in use at the end of the fourth century. Hence the necessity of taking the Septuagint into consideration in any attempt to restore the text of the Old Testament. With this exception we must admit the excellence of the translation made by St. Jerome. "
Love and prayer’s
A
avflf
Guest
There you have it then, a myth that was still believed in the 4th Century. Now you can understand Paul’s acceptance of the same myth at the time of the writing of the Pauline Epistles, which, by the way, were not all written by Paul i.e Ephesians, Colossians, 2nd Thessalonians, 1st and 2nd Timothy, Titus and Hebrews.
From Britannica again “…13 (letters) belong to the Pauline corpus; the Letter to the Hebrews is included in the Pauline corpus in the East but not, however, in the West. Three letters of this corpus, the Pastoral Letters, are pseudonymous and thus are not considered here. Of the remaining 10, the Letters to the Colossians and Ephesians are from the hand of a later Pauline follower and II Thessalonians is spurious. How this Pauline corpus was collected and published remains obscure, but letters as part of Holy Scripture were an early established phenomenon of Christianity.”
Did you know that another story doing the rounds at the time was that it was the hair of the women that had enticed the Angels to lose their first state and come to Earth looking for a bit of fun? Yep, Paul believed that and so he wrote in 1Co 11:10 *For this cause ought the woman to have **power *on her head because of the angels. If you look at your margin notes you’ll see the word “covering” as a substitute to “power”. Paul was not going to chance any alien abductions from his churches, so women had to cover their heads to prevent another angelic incursion into human affairs. I find that the Bible comes so much more alive when you know these little background snippets, don’t you?
Peace. Live long and prosper.
J
Jerry_Marino
Guest
you guys, everybody knows that, “It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.”
so the eucharist does not give life according to God’s word.
God bless you all.
so the eucharist does not give life according to God’s word.
God bless you all.
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