What was God doing before He made the Universe?

[perro_sarnoso]

Let’s assume the God is eternal and unchanging.
If He is eternally the Creator/eternally Creative, it would seem to follow that the Universe must also be eternal.
If God is like the Sun, and Creation is like the light from the Sun, then the existence of light from the sun must be co-exist with the sun itself.

If, on the other hand, the Universe is NOT eternal, what was God doing before He created the Universe, and what change occurred that cause the universe to be made? And would the idea of a change in God’s will/power/action (leading to the Creation of the Universe) be inconsistent with the eternal perfection of God?

This is an old problem- but I would like to see if there are any new solutions.

No need to assume- God is eternal and unchanging. You can’t set a “creativity trap” for God- God’s eternity is not contingent on His creation. And if we are saying, " creation" then, there is a beginning to that creation…so, no, the universe is not eternal.
The analogy of God being like the sun and the light etc etc. is not a good analogy. God’s essence and existence coincide.
Not such in the sun.

What was God doing before He created everything visible and invisible??? That is the question.

How the created being comes to know and understand the uncreated/eternal…we can only know about God…a lot! But, we can never know or encompass God completely because we can’t- we are created and limited even when we are in His presence in heaven, we won’t ever be able to breach the depths of God…it is not possible even for His angels.

That was part of the sin of Lucifer. Lust & Pride. And it is the cult of technology and the worship of knowledge that we suffer today.

Wisdom…we ignore- knowledge…we worship- we worship at the altar of technology and knowledge. Gnosis. …it is the “G” of Freemasonry.

 

[Julia_Mae]

If God is eternal, then God is not outside of time. Eternity is a temporal concept.

To you, perhaps.

The definition I use is “without beginning or end.”

nontemporal

God is also nonlocal.

As is eternity.

 

[Alberti_Devoveo]

Well, you could ask the same of practically every philosophical question!

There is no reason to dwell on what God did ‘before’ He created the Universe because nothing that we could hypothesize will affect our relationship with Him. Nor will it give us any insight into anything about God.
At least with other philosophical questions, there is relevance to those questions; there is no relevance to this question.

 

[Qoeleth]

There is no reason to dwell on what God did ‘before’ He created the Universe because nothing that we could hypothesize will affect our relationship with Him. Nor will it give us any insight into anything about God.
At least with other philosophical questions, there is relevance to those questions; there is no relevance to this question.

Well, people like Augustine considered it worth considering.

 

[johnnyjones]

No need to assume- God is eternal and unchanging. You can’t set a “creativity trap” for God- God’s eternity is not contingent on His creation. And if we are saying, " creation" then, there is a beginning to that creation…so, no, the universe is not eternal.
The analogy of God being like the sun and the light etc etc. is not a good analogy. God’s essence and existence coincide.
Not such in the sun.

What was God doing before He created everything visible and invisible??? That is the question.

How the created being comes to know and understand the uncreated/eternal…we can only know about God…a lot! But, we can never know or encompass God completely because we can’t- we are created and limited even when we are in His presence in heaven, we won’t ever be able to breach the depths of God…it is not possible even for His angels.

That was part of the sin of Lucifer. Lust & Pride. And it is the cult of technology and the worship of knowledge that we suffer today.

Wisdom…we ignore- knowledge…we worship- we worship at the altar of technology and knowledge. Gnosis. …it is the “G” of Freemasonry.

You wisely touch on wisdom.
Wisdom…
" I was set up from eternity, and of old before the earth was made. The depths were not as yet, and I (wisdom) was already conceived, neither had the fountains of waters as yet sprung out. The mountains with their huge bulk had not as yet been established: before the hills I was brought forth.
He had not yet made the earth, nor the rivers, nor the poles of the world. When he prepared the heavens, I (wisdom) was present:when with a certain law and compass he enclosed the depths, when he established the sky above, and poised the fountains of waters, when he compassed the sea with it’s bounds, and set a law to the waters that they should not pass their limits: when he balanced the foundations of the earth; I (wisdom) was with him forming all things and was delighted every day, playing before him at all times; playing in the world: and my delights were to be with the children of men." Proverbs 8:23-31

Yes, wisdom existed before all was visible and invisible, and in the formation process. As well Jesus said,"And now father glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began." John 17:3 God existed before the universe as love and wisdom. His glory was always.

 

[fred_conty]

There is a story that I remember hearing way back when I believed, a story of a war in Heaven and a fallen angel who was once God’s favorite. The story never made much sense to me, but then it was just a story.

It’s been a long time since I heard a good bedtime story. Does anyone remember the story of the fallen angel? Perhaps if I were to hear it again, it might make sense this time…

Godmachine, you mentioned,
" … fallen angel…it might make sense this time…"

Actually real faith has its roots in God’s authority and vericity not in “sense”.

The fallen angel idea is difficult to understand in view of his great intelligence.
That is how could a being so high make such a poor choice. It seems unlikely.
That is until we realize…

sin is EASY.

Just a thought.

 

[johnnyjones]

Godmachine, you mentioned,
" … fallen angel…it might make sense this time…"

Actually real faith has its roots in God’s authority and vericity not in “sense”.

The fallen angel idea is difficult to understand in view of his great intelligence.
That is how could a being so high make such a poor choice. It seems unlikely.
That is until we realize…

sin is EASY.

Just a thought.

Jesus said (so it is not a fable), “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.” Before the creation of the universe God made angels and cherubim that continually praised him. Satan rebelled and took 2 thirds of the angels with him. There was activity before the tangible things we now see. No universe, no planets , just spirit (God) and spirit beings.

 

[Alberti_Devoveo]

Well, people like Augustine considered it worth considering.

If I am not mistaken, Augustine was discussing this topic because other people at the time were trying to refute God’s existence with the argument. Augustine’s response is actually quite correct with modern physics: time did not exist before the Universe was created, thus God could not do anything ‘before’ the Creation since there was no such thing as time.

 

[fred_conty]

Let’s assume the God is eternal and unchanging.
If He is eternally the Creator/eternally Creative, it would seem to follow that the Universe must also be eternal.
If God is like the Sun, and Creation is like the light from the Sun, then the existence of light from the sun must be co-exist with the sun itself.

If, on the other hand, the Universe is NOT eternal, what was God doing before He created the Universe, and what change occurred that cause the universe to be made? And would the idea of a change in God’s will/power/action (leading to the Creation of the Universe) be inconsistent with the eternal perfection of God?

This is an old problem- but I would like to see if there are any new solutions.

If God always exists, then everything exists in the mind of God the creator of all.
Therefore time is always conceptually existing , as it is in God’s mind(thought,wisdom) who has no beginning.
Therefore we are always conceptually existing, as we are in God’s mind(thought,wisdom) who has no beginning.

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you” (Jeremiah 1:5).

Tho in God’s thought eternally, we are not God because we do not have the same existence as God which would make us gods. But there can be but one God.
Therefore we exist not only in the mind of God in eternal thought,
but are given birth from the mind of God into our existence by the reality of time.

Since we are eternally in the thought of God, it would seem impossible for creatures to be given separate existence eternally since the eternal existence belongs only to God.
And so creatures must be given existence only by time, not eternally, to exist in reality in addition to their conceptual existence in divine thought.

So the question “what was God doing before he made the universe?” is a contradiction.

God is “I am who am”. He is, and dosen’t change. Looking at God from our time perspective,
He is doing now, as He was doing before, as He will always be doing, in one same pure act.

For tho he is thought, is love, is justice, is all powerful, is all knowing, is…,is…,
he is not multiple acts, operating one after another, but these operations are all rolled up into one pure act, operating as one act simultaenously. He is pure thought, knowing all there is to know about all there is to know, which is ever present to him, in one thought which endures unchanged forever from eternity.

So “what was God doing before he made the universe?” Eternal thought,love,power,knowledge…
always and forever the same. “I am who am”. “alpha and omega”.

Just some thoughts about not knowing what I are talking about.

 

[FaithBuild18]

Friends,

I will only say this one time.

There was a time before time when all time was meaningless. At that point in time, since there was no time, God did not have to think about how to spend his time. Later in time when God created time, God knew exactly what to do with his time: he used time wisely. When time is up for our Universe and time comes to an end, it will be another time without time when God does not have to worry about how to spend his time.

For all time, Amen.

 

[johnnyjones]

Friends,

I will only say this one time.

There was a time before time when all time was meaningless. At that point in time, since there was no time, God did not have to think about how to spend his time. Later in time when God created time, God knew exactly what to do with his time: he used time wisely. When time is up for our Universe and time comes to an end, it will be another time without time when God does not have to worry about how to spend his time.

For all time, Amen.

Your right. That is why I used the word “activity” instead of time. Although there was no time, there was wisdom and purpose. The creation of angels, what the angels did and worship were all outside of linear time.

“What was God doing before he made the universe.?” He was being God. The scriptures are very revealing in this area. "I am that I am " says the Lord.

 

[jochoa]

This is an old problem- but I would like to see if there are any new solutions.

Excellent questions, my friend! Please consider the following concepts:

What was God doing before He made the Universe?

Since Catholicism knows (CCC #1) God has a plan to make men share in His blessed life, then God made a plan. In order to make a plan, He had to think of the plan. Therefore, before Creation or placing the plan into physical effect, God is thinking of the plan.

What change occurred that caused the universe to be made?

God finished thinking of the plan that would fulfill His Goal.

And would the idea of a change in God’s will/power/action (leading to the Creation of the Universe) be inconsistent with the eternal perfection of God?

No. Two simple reasons are: 1. God is eternally perfectly Loving, where Loving is His Greatest Commandments.
2. It can be recognized, that before Creation, the only event which took place was the begetting of the Body of the Son. And even this event is still in-alignment with being perfectly Loving.

Regarding God like the Sun, please consider the following concepts:
If God is like the Sun, then God’s Will is like the light from the Sun, and God’s Creations are like mirrors that perfectly reflect the light from the Sun. So you are correct in that the light from the Sun must eternally co-exist with the Sun itself, however the mirrors do not have to exist eternally.

 

[wcknight]

Like all good fathers, He was teaching His Son how to play baseball !!

 

[Eric_Hyom]

jochoa;
God is eternally perfectly Loving, where Loving is His Greatest Commandments.

God the Father loves all that he is with all his heart, soul, mind and strength.
God loves each and every one of us as he loves himself.

Just some thoughts

Eric

 

[PumpkinSeed]

This question is unanswerable by anyone. There is nothing in the history of the world that can answer this question perfectly without just guessing.

What I’m trying to say is “nobody knows”. You can guess but that’s all it is. Just a guess.

 

[jochoa]

God the Father loves all that he is with all his heart, soul, mind and strength.
God loves each and every one of us as he loves himself.

Just some thoughts

Eric

Excellent points! Would you please expand on your thoughts? I feel you are encouraging me to ponder on these thoughts for a certain reason, but I am not certain the reason.

I wonder why you only stated, God the Father, in the initial statement, and not God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Thank you very much for your time, consideration, and excellent thoughts!

 

[J_Peterson]

To you, perhaps.

The definition I use is “without beginning or end.”

nontemporal

God is also nonlocal.

As is eternity.

That’s the definition I use as well (I think it’s the definition that’s usually used in Catholic theology). I think defining it as infinite time is more of a materialist definition.

 

[poorsinner7]

Wouldn’t it be better to say that God transcends time and space, compared to exists outside of time and space? God exists everywhere and therefore, in a sense passes through it or exists through it, thus, transcends.

I love questions like this because the logical outcome is that God exists when you consider the randomness of things without Him.

 

[J_Peterson]

Wouldn’t it be better to say that God transcends time and space, compared to exists outside of time and space? God exists everywhere and therefore, in a sense passes through it or exists through it, thus, transcends.

I love questions like this because the logical outcome is that God exists when you consider the randomness of things without Him.

That’s a good point. Otherwise people may think we’re talking about a deist God.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

That’s a good point. Otherwise people may think we’re talking about a deist God.

The 2nd law of thermodynamics say that all things tend to entrhopy