What was God doing before He made the Universe?

[Charlemagne_II]

So, is it far to say that angels are also eternally created- and that God’s existence, which is possible only relationally, emerges with these things?

How could angels be created and eternal at the same time?

God’s eternal relationship is among the Three Persons, who are self-sufficient.

God creates angels and humans out of his infinite love, not his infinite need to love.

 

[poorsinner7]

So, is it far to say that angels are also eternally created- and that God’s existence, which is possible only relationally, emerges with these things?

How could angels be created and eternal at the same time?

God’s eternal relationship is among the Three Persons, who are self-sufficient.

God creates angels and humans out of his infinite love, not his infinite need to love.

How’s your Calculus? Limits. If you draw a line from a point in time to infinity, would it be fair to say till eternity?

point in time 0----------------------------------> infinity

make sense?

 

[Qoeleth]

So, is it far to say that angels are also eternally created- and that God’s existence, which is possible only relationally, emerges with these things?

How could angels be created and eternal at the same time?

Is that like saying “How could the Son be begotten and eternal at the same time”? Maybe it points to an atemporal relationship (Begetter: Begotten= Creator: Created), rather than creation/begetting as an ‘act in time’.

P.S. I am not actually arguing for this, but suggesting it is plausible.

 

[johnnyjones]

If Satan rebelled and took two thirds of the Angels with him, where did they go, if nothing else had been created?

Why would an eternal God create Angels and cherubim to continually praise him?

It must have been a need in God to do this, otherwise why would He bother? If so, how does a all powerful, eternal, all knowing, all present God, have needs?

Sarah x

The scriptures speak of a third heaven, which exists out of time, where God “abides”. Why would God need the worship of people? Similar question. I’m not sure that God “needs” worship in so much as we give it because it is necessary being in such a presence, or a desire to praise what represents the ultimate good.

The fallen angels entered another realm outside of time that God created after the rebellion, called Hades.

Those who do not believe in God usually believe in infinite matter. If you say the universe came in to existence by a “big bang”, you still need infinite elements to bring that action into motion. An Atheist may have more “religiously connected faith” then they know.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Qoeleth

"How could the Son be begotten and eternal at the same time"?

Actually, begotten and created do not mean the same thing. The Father did not create the Son.

He did create the angels. Or the Trinity together created the angels.

It’s complicated!

 

[Julia_Mae]

Julia Mae

Where did the stuff that exploded in the Bang come from?

That’s one of the things we cannot know because the event defies all the known laws of physics. But it must have been powerful stuff!

But it was not-God. It existed. It was, in fact, what comprised the universe before the Bang. So, possibly, “universe” is eternal, just not Eternity.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Julia Mae

But it was not-God. It existed. It was, in fact, what comprised the universe before the Bang. So, possibly, “universe” is eternal, just not Eternity.

The first thing to remember is that there are no facts relating to how the Big Bang happened.

The second thing to remember is that there was no “before” the Big Bang.

Time begins with the Big Bang.

If you are a Catholic, the third thing to remember is that the universe is not eternal. Even astronomers agree with theologians on this so far as the proof goes.

Whose book on astronomy have you been reading?

 

[Julia_Mae]

The second thing to remember is that there was no “before” the Big Bang.

Time begins with the Big Bang.

That’s actually undemonstrable because of the first thing to remember:

… there are no facts relating to how the Big Bang happened…

Everything outside of Eternity (the Universe) is nothingness and as there is Eternal Existence that which is not Eternal Existence → Nothingness. Ergo, one necessitates the other.

Whose book on astronomy have you been reading?

Which writings by what mystic have you been ignoring?

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Julia
**
That’s actually undemonstrable because of the first thing to remember:**

You misunderstand. There are no facts as to how it happened. I did not say there is no fact that it did happen! No astronomer denies that that the Big Bang happened, and all astronomers say time begins with the Big Bang. If you know of a time before the Big Bang, you have uncovered the ultimate mystery … which I doubt!

**Everything outside of Eternity (the Universe) is nothingness and as there is Eternal Existence that which is not Eternal Existence → Nothingness. Ergo, one necessitates the other. **

 

[Julia_Mae]

You misunderstand. There are no facts as to how it happened.

No, I understood perfectly and never thought you were saying it didn’t happen. What I said was that you cannot demonstrate that Time begins at the Bang. You can’t even p(name removed by moderator)oint exactly when it began, it could be an eternally present phenomenon.

**Everything outside of Eternity (the Universe) is nothingness and as there is Eternal Existence that which is not Eternal Existence → Nothingness. Ergo, one necessitates the other. **

Okay, let me try it this way. There were two things: God and nothingness.

There still are.

 

[Qoeleth]

Okay, let me try it this way. There were two things: God and nothingness.

There still are.

If I may interrupt and point out an error. “There ARE two things: God and nothingness” cannot be true, since Nothingness is not. Nothingness cannot be (in a positive sense), otherwise it would not be nothingness. Do you mean that God is the only thing which exists?

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

But it was not-God. It existed. It was, in fact, what comprised the universe before the Bang. So, possibly, “universe” is eternal, just not Eternity.

God created, it was nowhere else.
Where was the Statute of Liberty before it was created?

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

If I may interrupt and point out an error. “There ARE two things: God and nothingness” cannot be true, since Nothingness is not. Nothingness cannot be (in a positive sense), otherwise it would not be nothingness. Do you mean that God is the only thing which exists?

God is the only Being Who exists because He must exist and cannot non-exist. Nothingness is not a thing. Nothingness exists as an idea of non-existance.

 

[Julia_Mae]

If I may interrupt and point out an error. “There ARE two things: God and nothingness” cannot be true, since Nothingness is not. Nothingness cannot be (in a positive sense), otherwise it would not be nothingness. Do you mean that God is the only thing which exists?

I mean exactly what I said.

0 is a number.

 

[vz71]

If Satan rebelled and took two thirds of the Angels with him, where did they go, if nothing else had been created?

They left God’s presence.

 

[johnnyjones]

God exists inside and outside of time. Before the physical world He existed, and at some point created the angels and the third heaven. “Nothingness” exists only in our perceptions of what must have been because of the limits of our physical bodies. Wisdom and love existed. God is love (1 John 3:17) and wisdom from Proverbs. Neither are nothing.

We cling to the tangible, sensory world because we do not have spiritual bodies. So as I said earlier, God, before time, was being God with all His attributes in tact, and that is most certainly something.

In a sense one could answer the question of what God was doing before He made the universe by saying He was doing what He is doing now, loving, and from a further love came the universe and all that it embodies.

 

[Julia_Mae]

God exists inside and outside of time. Before the physical world He existed, and at some point created the angels and the third heaven. “Nothingness” exists only in our perceptions of what must have been…

338 Nothing exists that does not owe its existence to God the Creator. The world began when God’s word drew it out of nothingness; all existent beings, all of nature, and all human history are rooted in this primordial event, the very genesis by which the world was constituted and time begun.

Wisdom and love existed. God is love (1 John 3:17) and wisdom from Proverbs. Neither are nothing.

God is love and wisdom. And potential and intent. And more beyond. And nothing was except God.

 

[Nazaret]

we have to always remember and keep remind our selv’s that we cannot view God’s actions and plan in human beings point of view…and since we are Human Beings we cannot view anything in other perspective so that’s a dilemma!

 

[tonydavies]

That’s actually undemonstrable because of the first thing to remember:

Everything outside of Eternity (the Universe) is nothingness and as there is Eternal Existence that which is not Eternal Existence → Nothingness. Ergo, one necessitates the other.

Which writings by what mystic have you been ignoring?

Dear Julie Mae, you err in your equating Eternity with Universe. Only God may have the attribute proper of Eternal existence, not the Universe, for the Universe came into being at a point, it has not always existed, only God has always existed.

Then you err a second time with stating that existence must be either eternal or nothing. Existence can be eternal - God and God alone is attributed with that quality, and existence can also begin at a point - creation is attributed with this quality. There is not an either/or attribute to eternity and existence.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Dear Julie Mae, you err in your equating Eternity with Universe.

I didn’t. Quite the opposite:

Originally Posted by Julia Mae
That’s actually undemonstrable because of the first thing to remember:

Everything outside of Eternity (the Universe) is nothingness and as there is Eternal Existence that which is not Eternal Existence → Nothingness. Ergo, one necessitates the other.

Everything OUTSIDE of Eternity (the Universe)… Everything that is outside of, or not part of, Eternity, is the Universe. The parenthetical refers to the preceding phrase. Sorry I was not more clear.