What was Jesus writing on the ground when they brought the woman caught in adultery?

[Gloria_de_G]

I also think it’s connected with Jeremiah 17:13. Jer. 17:13 O LORD, the hope of Israel, all who forsake Thee shall be put to shame; those who turn away from Thee shall be written in the earth, for they have forsaken the LORD, the fountain of living water.
I think Our Lord may have written in the ground the names of those in the group who would reject Him.

And what?? What that will make them go???

I do not believe in this one…

In the love of the truth,
Gloria

.

 

[steve53]

What verse are you referring to. If He could read, He obviously knew “letters”.

Edit:
I think I may have tracked it down. Are you referring to
John 7:15 The Jews were amazed and said, “How does he know scripture without having studied?”

and it’s accompanying footnote in the NAB
6 [15] Without having studied: literally, “How does he know letters without having learned?” Children were taught to read and write by means of the scriptures. But here more than Jesus’ literacy is being discussed; the people are wondering how he can teach like a rabbi. Rabbis were trained by other rabbis and traditionally quoted their teachers.The literal, given in the footnote, does not say He “did not know His letters” – in fact, it says just the opposite; it wonders “How **does He know **letters…”

Here is another thing to consider:

The incident took place in the Second Temple.

The outer or first courtyard of the Second Temple was TILED, and not covered with sand.

Jesus couldn’t have written ANYTHING in the sand because there was none.

 

[Nita]

And what?? What that will make them go???

I do not believe in this one…

In the love of the truth,
Gloria

.

Scripture doesn’t tell us, but I like the theory that they found themselves in the very trap they had set for Jesus - that is,
if Jesus said the woman should not be stoned, they could accuse Jesus to the crowd of breaking or teaching contrary to the Mosaic law;
if he told them they should stone her, then they could report Jeus to the Roman authorities and accuse Him of inciting them to break the Roman law. (Jews were not allowed to inflict capital punishment. That is why they later had to take Jesus to the Roman, Pontius Pilate.)

Now, when Jesus chose not to answer their question but instead said “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.” they found themselves stuck in the trap they had set for Jesus - if they didn’t stone her, the crowd would see them as not fulfilling the Mosaic Law; if they did stone her, they could be arrested by the Roman authorities for breaking the Roman law.

Psalm 57:6 comes to mind:
Ps 57:6 They set a net for my steps; my soul was bowed down.
They dug a pit in my way, but they have fallen into it themselves.

 

[Nita]

Here is another thing to consider:

The incident took place in the Second Temple.

The outer or first courtyard of the Second Temple was TILED, and not covered with sand.

Jesus couldn’t have written ANYTHING in the sand because there was none.

Are you serious??
Obviously the place He chose to sit down and teach the crowd was someplace where there was sand. Perhaps it was in the temple area or perhaps they walked elsewhere.

I’m not sure where you get the claim that He was in the courtyard when the event took place; the Scripture passage doesn’t say so. It merely says that in “early in the morning” He came “to the temple”. As to precisely where or how much later it was when the crowd gathered, we don’t know. What we do know is that wherever it was, there was sand.

 

[Gloria_de_G]

Here is another thing to consider:

The incident took place in the Second Temple.

The outer or first courtyard of the Second Temple was TILED, and not covered with sand.

Jesus couldn’t have written ANYTHING in the sand because there was none.

Ok. Well you must know that the temple has been under construction for the last 46 years and was not completed yet. "20 The Jews then said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple: John 2:20

Also…
“It is possible** that the complex was only a few years completed** when the future Emperor Titus burnt the place to the ground in 70 CE” en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Temple

There must had been places on the ground that were not tiled yet.

So you see, if the Gospels say that Jesus was writing on the ground, is because He was writing on the ground!

In the love of Christ,
Gloria

.

 

[Gloria_de_G]

if they didn’t stone her, the crowd would see them as not fulfilling the Mosaic Law; if they did stone her, they could be arrested by the Roman authorities for breaking the Roman law.

Psalm 57:6 comes to mind:
Ps 57:6 They set a net for my steps; my soul was bowed down.
They dug a pit in my way, but they have fallen into it themselves.

Yes, it is nice, is just that does not quite square the facts, neither explains what Jesus was writing…

You said ’ if they didn’t stone her, the crowd would see them as not fulfilling the Mosaic Law’ But they did not stone her… and the crowd I am sure** did not think** that they were not fulfilling the Mosaic Law, because every one left!!!

In the love of Christ,
Gloria

.

 

[runningdude]

…
Here is what I imagine::newidea:

When he bent on the ground he **was starting to write the Ten Commandments **but they press him to answer and Jesus told them that the one that did not have sin to throw the first stone, and then continue to write the Ten Commandments, that in Hebrew will be very short, two words each. But Jesus started to write them from the last commandment, the 10th: you shall not covet then 9th not bear false witness, etc. (Ex 20:3-17)
…
.

I like this theory!

 

[Tom_Baum]

I doubt Jesus could write.

Also in John, Jesus is criticized for preaching with authority even though he “did not know letters.”

Think about it logically. Why would be writing in the sand? What’s the point? He writes something pithy, and then says to a student “Come around on this side and look at what I wrote in the sand.”

Excuse me?

Then a gust if wind comes up and blows it all away. Or someone walks through it and ruins everything.

Doesn’t make sense.

I don’t know if Jesus could write but He definitely could read since He read from the scroll in the Temple.

So Jesus very well could have been able to write.

 

[runningdude]

I doubt Jesus could write.

It is recorded that he could read in the synagog…

 

[runningdude]

It is not recorded what He wrote,

I did not claim to know what was written.

nor is there (to my mind) any reason to assume anyone other than the guilty read their own sins.
Confronting a man with his own sinfulness in order to prevent him from committing yet another sin, is not “gossip”.

Every crime he was accused of was a lie. Being accused of gossip would also be a lie.

 

[runningdude]

Here is another thing to consider:

The incident took place in the Second Temple.

The outer or first courtyard of the Second Temple was TILED, and not covered with sand.

Jesus couldn’t have written ANYTHING in the sand because there was none.

They would not have defiled the temple with an execution. It would take weeks to make it ritually clean again.

 

[Tom_Baum]

Hello? He’s God and KNOWS everyone’s sins. There is a problem with God knowing people’s sins? What am I missing?

Glenda

Jesus may or may not have known everyone’s sins.

Jesus was Incarnational therefore He was True God and True Man not just God.

I was taught that Jesus was in all ways, except for sin, like us as a Man, therefore I believe, not know but believe, that Jesus gave up His Omni’s in the Incarnation so that He could be like us in all ways, except for sin.

 

[Nita]

Yes, it is nice, is just that does not quite square the facts,

What facts are you referring to that cannot be squared with the possibility in my post #43.

neither explains what Jesus was writing…

My thoughts about the trap in that post were not meant to offer any sort of explanation as to what Jesus was writing. I did that in an earlier post #33. And in post #33 I certainly wasn’t putting it forth as fact, but as a possible explanation - one I happen to prefer. You have a different one you prefer and that’s just fine. We just plain don’t know for certain what Jesus wrote.

You said ’ if they didn’t stone her, the crowd would see them as not fulfilling the Mosaic Law’ But they did not stone her… and the crowd I am sure** did not think** that they were not fulfilling the Mosaic Law, because every one left!!!

In the love of Christ,
Gloria

.

I’m missing your point. Why would their leaving change the fact that they did not carry out or call for carrying out the Mosaic law? They were the teachers and spiritual leaders of the Jewish people, the ones the crowd would have looked to for an answer. Instead they gave no response and just walked away.

Something else that the crowd might have assumed is that the failure of any one of the scribes and Pharisees to pick up a stone was equivalent to admitting to the crowd that they were sinners - that they were not “without sin”. You can imagine how well being thought of as a sinner would have been to a scribe of Pharisee.

And one more interesting point is contained in verse 9: * But when they heard it, they went away, one by one, beginning with the eldest, * I recall listening to Scott Hahn comment on this verse. He proposed that the eldest ones, being wiser, were the first to recognize the trap - that they were caught in the very trap they had laid for Jesus.

EDIT: I just realized I have not stayed within the limits of the main thread topic. Apologies, but it’s such an interesting section in John’s gospel that it’s hard not to comment on other verses in the passage.

 

[steve53]

Are you serious??
Obviously the place He chose to sit down and teach the crowd was someplace where there was sand. Perhaps it was in the temple area or perhaps they walked elsewhere.

I’m not sure where you get the claim that He was in the courtyard when the event took place; the Scripture passage doesn’t say so. It merely says that in “early in the morning” He came “to the temple”. As to precisely where or how much later it was when the crowd gathered, we don’t know. What we do know is that wherever it was, there was sand.

OR the sand-WRITING part was added later, or embellished.

The Second Temple has no sandy area that Josephus describes.

 

[TimothyH]

Jesus writing in the sand was a reference to several places in the Old Testament.

The hand of God wrote words on the wall which no one except Daniel could read in Daniel 5.

And this is the writing that was inscribed: MENE, MENE, TEKEL, and PARSIN. This is the interpretation of the matter: MENE, God has numbered the days of your kingdom and brought it to an end; TEKEL, you have been weighed in the balances and found wanting; PERES, your kingdom is divided and given to the Medes and Persians. (Daniel 5:25-27)

King Nebuchadnez’zar exalted himself and his kingdom was given to others more worthy. God’s hand wrote the words on the wall as a message. The author of the Gospel is trying to bring our attention back to the events in Daniel 5. This is what happened to the Pharisees and temple authorities - their kingdom was given to others who were worthy. Jesus wrote with his finger. The author is trying to tell us that Jesus is God and that he is going to pronounce judgement.

And the magicians said to Pharaoh, "This is the finger of God." But Pharaoh’s heart was hardened, and he would not listen to them; as the LORD had said. (Exodus 8:19)

The authorities were invoking the Old Testament law in order to stone the woman. God in the person of Jesus Christ was reminding them of the real meaning of the law - mercy and forgiveness for one who repents.

And the LORD gave me the two tables of stone written with the finger of God; and on them were all the words which the LORD had spoken with you on the mountain out of the midst of the fire on the day of the assembly. (Deuteronomy 9:10)

We can’t interpret Jesus’ words or actions outside of the Old Testament. We have to always look back to the Old Testament to be able to understand what Jesus was doing or saying. Whether there was a sandy area in the temple or not is not the point. John was drawing our attention to the hand and fingers of God in the Old Testament.

-Tim-

 

[aragonjohn1]

"8 1 but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 Early in the morning he came again to the temple; all the people came to him, and he sat down and taught them. 3 The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst 4 they said to him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery. 5 Now in the law Moses commanded us to stone such. What do you say about her?” 6 This they said to test him, that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. 7 And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8** And once more he bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground**. 9 But when they heard it, they went away, one by one, beginning with the eldest, and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. 10 Jesus looked up and said to her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” 11 She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you; go, and do not sin again.” "John 8:1-11

Here is what I imagine::newidea:

When he bent on the ground he **was starting to write the Ten Commandments **but they press him to answer and Jesus told them that the one that did not have sin to throw the first stone, and then continue to write the Ten Commandments, that in Hebrew will be very short, two words each. But Jesus started to write them from the last commandment, the 10th: you shall not covet then 9th not bear false witness, etc. (Ex 20:3-17)

Since the elders, the Scribes and the Pharisees who brought the woman, pride themselves in not having other gods beside God and not worshiping idols, not taking the name of God in vain and keeping the Shabbat day (the first four commandments), but must probably did not keep so well the others, like not to covet others things, etc. they were the ones to go first. In fact, Jesus warned before the people to “…practice and observe whatever they tell you, but not what they do; for they preach, but do not practice.” Mt 23:3

As Jesus came closer to the first commandments, which the younger will find more difficult to keep, they also left and no one stone the adulterous woman.

What do you imagine??

In the love of Christ,
Gloria

.

i bet he either scrawled somethin of relevance or something good about love

God bless

 

[Gloria_de_G]

Jesus writing in the sand was a reference to several places in the Old Testament.
(…)

We can’t interpret Jesus’ words or actions outside of the Old Testament. We have to always look back to the Old Testament to be able to understand what Jesus was doing or saying. Whether there was a sandy area in the temple or not is not the point. John was drawing our attention to the hand and fingers of God in the Old Testament.

-Tim-

Dear Tim, but that is why I said that Jesus was writing the Ten Commandments, the must important words from the Old Testament. And if you were right that ‘John was drawing our attention to the hand and fingers of God in the Old Testament’, that does not explain why the elders started to go first one by one.

Gloria

.

 

[Gloria_de_G]

i bet he either scrawled something of relevance or something good about love

God bless

But then how you explain that the elders started to go first and did not stoned the woman

In the love of Christ,
Gloria

.

 

[Gloria_de_G]

What facts are you referring to that cannot be squared with the possibility in my post #43.

Precisely in my post #46 I go on to explain what are the facts that do not square with your suggestion. You suggest that if they did not stone the woman the crowd will see them as not fulfilling the Mosaic Law. You are suggesting this. The only thing I am saying is that your suggestion did not happen. Is really very difficult to understand??? They did not stone the woman and the people did not think that they were not fulfilling the Mosaic Law, because the crowd themselves did fill guilty of sin and they also left and were not able to stone the woman. So your theory does not work! You understand now. Or it is me the one not understanding what was your point in making the suggestion…

My thoughts about the trap in that post were not meant to offer any sort of explanation as to what Jesus was writing. I did that in an earlier post #33. And in post #33 I certainly wasn’t putting it forth as fact, but as a possible explanation - one I happen to prefer. You have a different one you prefer and that’s just fine. We just plain don’t know for certain what Jesus wrote.

Yes, no one knows, we are just trying to piece together the facts to see if we can come with a better understanding of what He was writing, which is what this post is about.

I’m missing your point. Why would their leaving change the fact that they did not carry out or call for carrying out the Mosaic law? They were the teachers and spiritual leaders of the Jewish people, the ones the crowd would have looked to for an answer. Instead they gave no response and just walked away.

Something else that the crowd might have assumed is that the failure of any one of the scribes and Pharisees to pick up a stone was equivalent to admitting to the crowd that they were sinners - that they were not “without sin”. You can imagine how well being thought of as a sinner would have been to a scribe of Pharisee.

But the problem here is not just the Scribes and the Pharisees, is every one, every one found themselves guilty and no one was able to throw a stone at her, so I do not think there was opportunity to really blame the Scribes and Pharisees for being sinners, since the crowd also found themselves guilty!!

And one more interesting point is contained in verse 9: * But when they heard it, they went away, one by one, beginning with the eldest*, I recall listening to Scott Hahn comment on this verse. He proposed that the eldest ones, being wiser, were the first to recognize the trap - that they were caught in the very trap they had laid for Jesus.

Well, if S. Hahn was right and the Scribes and Pharisees start to leave, not because they realized that they have sinned, but because they were caught in the same trap they put to Jesus, then the rest of the crowd, why they should leave??? They did not put the trap…

It does not make sense to me, sorry… I really think they recognized themselves sinners when Jesus was writing the Ten Commandments and as Jesus was writing them, immediately in their minds recalled situations of sins that they have committed and that was what make them go one by one, starting by the eldest. I explain this in my first post #1.

EDIT: I just realized I have not stayed within the limits of the main thread topic. Apologies, but it’s such an interesting section in John’s gospel that it’s hard not to comment on other verses in the passage.

I do not think so! You are keeping in line…

And many thanks for your ideas,
In the love of Christ,
Gloria

.

 

[EphelDuath]

Here is another thing to consider:

The incident took place in the Second Temple.

The outer or first courtyard of the Second Temple was TILED, and not covered with sand.

Jesus couldn’t have written ANYTHING in the sand because there was none.

So you are arguing that John invented the story, but made an error of catastrophic proportions, despite the fact that he was a Jew and probably had been to the Temple himself a good few dozen times? – and even more ridiculous than that, nobody seemed to have notice this gigantic blunder when reading his Gospel, even though the Temple was a very public place that tens of thousands of Jews, travelers, and Roman soldiers would have known about?

Much simpler answer: there was a place nearby with sand.

The Second Temple has no sandy area that Josephus describes.

Maybe he didn’t have enough paper.