What was Jesus writing on the ground when they brought the woman caught in adultery?

[thistle]

Dear Tim, but that is why** I said that Jesus was writing the Ten Commandments**, the must important words from the Old Testament. And if you were right that ‘John was drawing our attention to the hand and fingers of God in the Old Testament’, that does not explain why the elders started to go first one by one.

Gloria

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Absolutely sheer baseless speculation and ZERO to back up such a speculation.

 

[TimothyH]

Absolutely sheer baseless speculation and ZERO to back up such a speculation.

It’s not baseless. There is a good basis for belief that Jesus was writing the ten commandment or the “handwriting on the wall” from Daniel 5.

A brief study of the New Testament shows that the authors often wrote this way, that they drew our attention to the OT scriptures through the actions or words of the NT characters.

There is a very good basis for both of these beliefs. Thistle, you really need to get into a good Bible study like Great Adventure/Jeff Cavins.

-Tim-

 

[aragonjohn1]

Yes, you are right, the commandments in Hebrew are very simple: two short words each, NO and the Commandment. But if you want to know my imagination of why they went off one by one starting by the elders, please read my post #1, I explained it there.

In the love of Christ,
Gloria

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alright, will do this .

God bless

 

[Darryl_B]

I don’t think Jesus was writing the 10 commandments. I believe in writing on the ground he was in effect reminding them of the place they were all going. Dust to dust, out of the ground, and return to it.

The reason for that is sin. The elders were more aware of their mortality than enthusiastic youth, hence leaving earlier.

I have heard that it was customary to write 1. The persons name and 2. The crime as the accusor, this is in effect what the Pharisees were requesting of Jesus and Jesus played along with their request. Writing on the ground twice. But he didn’t write the womans name, he wrote man’s name. Adam.

It takes two to tango, Eve was not responsible for the fall, Adam was and it highlights the message that Jesus is able to fix the wrongs that had been done.

 

[glendab]

Hello Gloria

Dear Tim, but that is why I said that Jesus was writing the Ten Commandments, the must important words from the Old Testament. And if you were right that ‘John was drawing our attention to the hand and fingers of God in the Old Testament’, that does not explain why the elders started to go first one by one.

Gloria

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I’m going to be frank with you. It is very nice that you consider the Word of God and reflect upon it. That shows your love for His word and a desire to understand Him in His Word. But not only ,I but several others have noticed that you seem to think your interpretation of those words is more than a personal reflection. If you began to insist that it is a “revelation” from God Himself, then you’d be going from a venial sin to a mortal sin. I know some here will begin to argue, but it is true - you can get BIG trouble with God when you interpret His word on your own and try to influence others. I’m saying this in charity and as a warning to you. Perhaps you aren’t aware of the danger. Perhaps you don’t believe there is any at all. I sincerely hope you take this response to your sharing your reflections on the Gospel as it is meant - a charity on my part to keep you from getting into serious sin. This is why the Church tells us to be careful when we study the Scriptures, etc.

Glenda

P.S. If you didn’t care and meant to influence people and were trying to sway them to your personal ambitions and cares, then you too would be guilty of a type of adultery that most Protestant preachers are guilty of; the spiritual kind - cheating on God - a very mortal sin.

I must also add this is just my humble opinion and I’m no expert on anything (except maybe spaghetti sauce)

 

[Darryl_B]

Hello Gloria

I’m going to be frank with you. It is very nice that you consider the Word of God and reflect upon it. That shows your love for His word and a desire to understand Him in His Word. But not only ,I but several others have noticed that you seem to think your interpretation of those words is more than a personal reflection. If you began to insist that it is a “revelation” from God Himself, then you’d be going from a venial sin to a mortal sin. I know some here will begin to argue, but it is true - you can get BIG trouble with God when you interpret His word on your own and try to influence others. I’m saying this in charity and as a warning to you. Perhaps you aren’t aware of the danger. Perhaps you don’t believe there is any at all. I sincerely hope you take this response to your sharing your reflections on the Gospel as it is meant - a charity on my part to keep you from getting into serious sin. This is why the Church tells us to be careful when we study the Scriptures, etc.

Glenda

P.S. If you didn’t care and meant to influence people and were trying to sway them to your personal ambitions and cares, then you too would be guilty of a type of adultery that most Protestant preachers are guilty of; the spiritual kind - cheating on God - a very mortal sin.

I must also add this is just my humble opinion and I’m no expert on anything (except maybe spaghetti sauce)

Please, please, please, I am trying to stimulate (not simulate) discussion away from differences and into the fascinating text because I feel this thread needs it. So with regards to my post on Adam as the name, original sin as the game?

 

[Gloria_de_G]

Hello Gloria
(…)
P.S. If you didn’t care and meant to influence people and were trying to sway them to your personal ambitions and cares, then you too would be guilty of a type of adultery that most Protestant preachers are guilty of; the spiritual kind - cheating on God - a very mortal sin.

I must also add this is just my humble opinion and I’m no expert on anything (except maybe spaghetti sauce)

I do not think that I am sinning by trying to remind everyone, even you, that the 10 Commandments of God are of special importance to everyone. And this event has allow me to do that. If it is true or not that Jesus was writing that, it is not the point! I told you before to talk to a priest and see if I am in sin, but you take into your hand to accused me and set sentence on me for this.

Look, Glenda, let me take your words seriously and give you an advise:

I must also add this is just my humble opinion and I’m no expert on anything (except maybe spaghetti sauce)

The thing is that** you said** that your opinion is humble!

**GO BACK TO THE KITCHEN IF YOU CAN NOT BUILD BUT DESTROY!!! ** :knight1:

In the love of the truth,
Gloria

PS and if you think I am claiming a revelation go to post #106
.

 

[Gloria_de_G]

Please, please, please, I am trying to stimulate (not simulate) discussion away from differences and into the fascinating text because I feel this thread needs it. So with regards to my post on Adam as the name, original sin as the game?

Sorry Darryl, I saw too late your post. I will answer soon to your proposal about Adam. I have to think about it :idea:
and about Glenda I hope she stops this behavior and consults a priest .

Gloria

.

 

[Gloria_de_G]

I don’t think Jesus was writing the 10 commandments.

Dear Darry, in post #108 Jonahton said some beautiful things about the finger of God and writing on the earth. We added his ideas to this thread because I really thought they were nice. Have a look please.

I believe in writing on the ground he was in effect reminding them of the place they were all going. Dust to dust, out of the ground, and return to it.

The reason for that is sin. The elders were more aware of their mortality than enthusiastic youth, hence leaving earlier.

I have heard that it was customary to write 1. The persons name and 2. The crime as the accusor, this is in effect what the Pharisees were requesting of Jesus and Jesus played along with their request. Writing on the ground twice. But he didn’t write the womans name, he wrote man’s name. Adam.

In post #37 we deal with this issue, that Christ will not have reveal the sins of each with their name on it publicly, but go and have a look please.

It takes two to tango, Eve was not responsible for the fall, Adam was and it highlights the message that Jesus is able to fix the wrongs that had been done.

I will say that you need to remember that the Pharisees, and the rest of the authorities, did not believe in Jesus, not even with the amazing miracles he had done. Therefore something as subtle as you are suggesting I do not believe will have change the mind of the authorities from throwing the first stone to the woman. :dts:

In the love of Christ,
Gloria

.

 

[Darryl_B]

Dear Darry, in post #108 Jonahton said some beautiful things about the finger of God and writing on the earth. We added his ideas to this thread because I really thought they were nice. Have a look please.

In post #37 we deal with this issue, that Christ will not have reveal the sins of each with their name on it publicly, but go and have a look please.

I will say that you need to remember that the Pharisees, and the rest of the authorities, did not believe in Jesus, not even with the amazing miracles he had done. Therefore something as subtle as you are suggesting I do not believe will have change the mind of the authorities from throwing the first stone to the woman. :dts:

In the love of Christ,
Gloria

.

Gloria, Jesus Christ did not come to condemn but to save. By writing the 10 commandments on the ground he would be condemning the Pharisees, he would also slightly be suggesting that the 10 commandments could be voided. He didn’t do that.

The 10 commandments are not the root of sin. The original sin is.

I did not suggest Jesus wrote the Pharisees names and listed their sins, because that is not the root of the problem, the problem began in Genesis not Exodus, and Jesus came to fix that initial sin. That sin that was going to make everyone die. That includes Gentiles too not bound by the law. Older people are more aware of their mortality rather than the bullet proof youth. I do not think an older person is more aware they are a sinner, unless the older you get the more sinful you become. They are however more aware of the shortness of their days.

There is still the obvious issue that the man who was caught in adultery was not being placed on trial, only the woman.

So if Jesus wrote Adam on the ground ie man, that would highlight that the man caught in adultery was not there. Adam means earth, that is what Jesus was writing in.

While the reference to Mene Mene Tekel Upharsin is an interesting comparison, that was a condemnation of the Kingdom of Babylon, but the thing Jesus wrote in the ground was rubbed out. This showed to his disciples (the believers) that his work was to fix that condemnation that is on all men, not just the woman, not just the Pharisees not just those under the law, but all men.

 

[Gloria_de_G]

Gloria, Jesus Christ did not come to condemn but to save. By writing the 10 commandments on the ground he would be condemning the Pharisees, he would also slightly be suggesting that the 10 commandments could be voided. He didn’t do that.

Sorry Darry, but Jesus told them that the one without sin should throw the first stone at the adulterous woman and precisely by writing the the 10 Commandments on the earth was condemning them of sin, the one which accused each one in his own mind when Jesus wrote it. What nonsense are you suggesting (sorry for this)??? ** " he would also slightly be suggesting that the 10 commandments could be voided**"

** I will say that you are a bit of a heretic by saying this**.:bigyikes:

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC)

" 2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christians and that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 the Second Vatican Council confirms: “The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord… the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments.”

2072 Since they express man’s fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations. They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. The Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart. "

The 10 commandments are not the root of sin. The original sin is.

I did not suggest Jesus wrote the Pharisees names and listed their sins, because that is not the root of the problem, the problem began in Genesis not Exodus, and Jesus came to fix that initial sin. That sin that was going to make everyone die. That includes Gentiles too not bound by the law. Older people are more aware of their mortality rather than the bullet proof youth. I do not think an older person is more aware they are a sinner, unless the older you get the more sinful you become. They are however more aware of the shortness of their days.

If you did not suggest that, then why did you mention it??? weird…
I do not think that you can understand that all these authorities did not believe at all that Jesus was even a prophet, not to say the Son of God, so just by writing ‘Adam’ on the earth, they were all leaving… sorry I can not take it, does not make sense to me, but if it does make sense to you… be happy. (and by the way He will have wrote ‘Adam’ in the first bending down, was no need to carry on writing! )

There is still the obvious issue that the man who was caught in adultery was not being placed on trial, only the woman.

So if Jesus wrote Adam on the ground ie man, that would highlight that the man caught in adultery was not there. Adam means earth, that is what Jesus was writing in.

We dealt with this problem in the post #19

While the reference to Mene Mene Tekel Upharsin is an interesting comparison, that was a condemnation of the Kingdom of Babylon, but the thing Jesus wrote in the ground was rubbed out. This showed to his disciples (the believers) that his work was to fix that condemnation that is on all men, not just the woman, not just the Pharisees not just those under the law, but all men.

Jesus was not a man of nonsense, what He said, what He did, what He wrote, what He interpret, what He taught: NOTHING OF THESE IS NONSENSE, NOTHING. :tsktsk:

The words written in the wall needed someone to interpret them, Jesus did not need anyone to interpret what he said, did He? Explanations He even gave them himself!

I trust in God that you are no going to be angry with me Darry

In the love of the truth of His Word,
Gloria

.

 

[Darryl_B]

Sorry Darry, but Jesus told them that the one without sin should throw the first stone at the adulterous woman and precisely by writing the the 10 Commandments on the earth was condemning them of sin, the one which accused each one in his own mind when Jesus wrote it. What nonsense are you suggesting (sorry for this)??? ** " he would also slightly be suggesting that the 10 commandments could be voided**"

** I will say that you are a bit of a heretic by saying this**.:bigyikes:

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC)

" 2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christians and that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 the Second Vatican Council confirms: “The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord… the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments.”

2072 Since they express man’s fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations. They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. The Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart. "

If you did not suggest that, then why did you mention it??? weird…
I do not think that you can understand that all these authorities did not believe at all that Jesus was even a prophet, not to say the Son of God, so just by writing ‘Adam’ on the earth, they were all leaving… sorry I can not take it, does not make sense to me, but if it does make sense to you… be happy. (and by the way He will have wrote ‘Adam’ in the first bending down, was no need to carry on writing! )

We dealt with this problem in the post #19

Jesus was not a man of nonsense, what He said, what He did, what He wrote, what He interpret, what He taught: NOTHING OF THESE IS NONSENSE, NOTHING. :tsktsk:

The words written in the wall needed someone to interpret them, Jesus did not need anyone to interpret what he said, did He? Explanations He even gave them himself!

I trust in God that you are no going to be angry with me Darry

In the love of the truth of His Word,
Gloria

.

Gloria, sorry I have not read your post. The reason I have not read your post is because you took something I said as a reason why I reject an idea, as being an actual idea that I am presenting and then tell me I am wrong for believing something I had just obviously said is not true.

That is called a straw-man argument Gloria, therefore I have not given you the courtesy of reading your post.

 

[Gloria_de_G]

Gloria, sorry I have not read your post. The reason I have not read your post is because you took something I said as a reason why I reject an idea, as being an actual idea that I am presenting and then tell me I am wrong for believing something I had just obviously said is not true.

That is called a straw-man argument Gloria, therefore I have not given you the courtesy of reading your post.

:hypno:

You took something that I said… ok
as the reason to reject an idea … ok
and presented as the actual idea… ??? here to me ‘something that I said = the actual idea’
and then tell me that I am wrong ???
because something that I just said is not true???

WOW, you win, I can not argue with someone like you.

Still you can do what you want, but believe me it is not good your idea about the 10 commandments being void… correct yourself if you do not want to stand to be a heretic. I did not force you to say this. It is what is in your heart, it will never had come out of my mouth to say that, because it is not in my heart.

I am not answering you any more.

In the love of the truth,
Gloria

.

 

[dshix]

:hypno:

You took something that I said… ok
as the reason to reject an idea … ok
and presented as the actual idea… ??? here to me ‘something that I said = the actual idea’
and then tell me that I am wrong ???
because something that I just said is not true???

WOW, you win, I can not argue with someone like you.

Still you can do what you want, but believe me it is not good your idea about the 10 commandments being void… correct yourself if you do not want to stand to be a heretic. I did not force you to say this. It is what is in your heart, it will never had come out of my mouth to say that, because it is not in my heart.

I am not answering you any more.

In the love of the truth,
Gloria

.

I think you need to reread the last three posts, because either you completely misread them and misunderstood, or you are deliberately picking a fight over nothing.

 

[Gloria_de_G]

I think you need to reread the last three posts, because either you completely misread them and misunderstood, or you are deliberately picking a fight over nothing.

Dear Dshix, I think you need to re-read what he said in post #124, here it is:

I don’t think Jesus was writing the 10 commandments. I believe in writing on the ground he was in effect reminding them of the place they were all going. Dust to dust, out of the ground, and return to it.

The reason for that is sin. The elders were more aware of their mortality than enthusiastic youth, hence leaving earlier.

I have heard that it was customary to write 1. The persons name and 2. The crime as the accusor, **this is in effect what the Pharisees were requesting of Jesus and Jesus played along with their request. **Writing on the ground twice. But he didn’t write the woman’s name, he wrote man’s name. Adam.

It takes two to tango, Eve was not responsible for the fall, Adam was and it highlights the message that Jesus is able to fix the wrongs that had been done.

I put the red and the bold in his post. He said something and then when I argue his point he did not like it. Simple. Let us spell it out. I do not like to argue for the sake of nothing, or just been stubborn.

Gloria, sorry I have not read your post. The reason I have not read your post is because you took something I said as a reason why I reject an idea,

“I don’t think Jesus was writing the 10 commandments.” this is his rejection of the idea

“in writing on the ground he was in effect reminding them of the place they were all going” this is the reason that he gives.

And then he adds that** he heard about the custom** of writing the name of the sinner and then the sinner, and that Jesus went along with the request of the Pharisees but writing on the ground not the name of the woman. Do you see how complicate this person is in his mind: No body will have expected Jesus to write the name of the sinner, ie the woman, and her sin. Every one knew her sin, she was caught in the act of adultery. So why is he suggesting that the Pharisees were expecting that? Sorry… and then when I argue his idea and say that it is not right and I gave him reasons, then he did not like it. That is not nice… You can see post #129 then he argue in post #130 and that was that: he did not like my answer to that.

And when I argue with him is because I am treating him as my brother in Christ, and with my brother I will take my time to make him understand his mistake, unless he probes me wrong. With some one else who does not claim to be a Catholic I may just let it drop. He is in RCIA, so I want to treat him as my brother.

In the love of making things clear,
Gloria

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[Darryl_B]

He is in RCIA, so I want to treat him as my brother.

When is that going to start Gloria.

 

[Gloria_de_G]

When is that going to start Gloria.

NOW :hug3::flowers:

The fact I may not agree with you does not make me your enemy.

Love,
Gloria

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[Darryl_B]

NOW :hug3::flowers:

The fact I may not agree with you does not make me your enemy.

Love,
Gloria

.

Actually you have accused me of heresy and have also condemned me, put me on trial with words written in red. That is an ad hominem argument Gloria.

 

[Gloria_de_G]

Actually you have accused me of heresy (…)

OK let us go slowly, slowly:

Gloria, Jesus Christ did not come to condemn but to save. By writing the 10 commandments on the ground he would be condemning the Pharisees,** he would also slightly be suggesting that the 10 commandments could be voided**. He didn’t do that.

You noticed what I put bold-red in your quote is when I said that:

** I will say that you are a bit of a heretic by saying this**.:bigyikes:

And also notice that this argument of yours is to put down my imagination that Jesus was writing the 10 Commandments. And you think I am just going to let you go like that… NO.
Either you probe right your statement or I probe you wrong, which was what I did.

and have also condemned me,.

Where this is not enough for me, quote my post…

put me on trial with words written in red. That is an ad hominem argument Gloria.

The words written in red, I put them in red and bold, but were your own words not mine:thumbsup:

“ad hominem” ad hominem Latin: /æd ˈhɒmɪˌnɛm/ directed against a person rather than against his arguments.

I have never was against you by what you are, but by what you said. You know something, you sound like Glenda.

I am leaving it here, if you do not want to recognize your mistake but try to turn around against me to bite, I am not taking it any more. It is very cunning to say that I said something and do not write the quote, is bias.

Do not play with darkness with me, I like the light.:angel1: :sad_bye:
Gloria

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[chalimac]

Some opinions of church fathers taken from medieval glosses about what he wrote:

*recedentes in terra scribentur. (they that depart from thee, shall be written in the earth.) Jeremiah 17:13

*terra terra terra audi sermonem Domini (O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the Lord.) Jeremiah 22:29

• He wrote some letters in which everyone read their own sins (not the ones of the others).