What will happen if abortion is made illegal?

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In the pro-life movement, which I would consider myself part of, I’ve noticed that there has always been a strong movement towards helping women post-abortion and different ways of helping women steer away from having abortions like clinics, etc.

If abortion was made illegal, would it mean that a women and the doctor who procured the abortion would be convicted of murder? Would they be convicted in the same way as someone who committed a first degree murder? Would people still be trying to help the women who are going through post-abortion trauma?

Also, it your opinion, do you think that if abortion was made illegal, all women who have had an abortion before the laws were changed should be made criminals? The reason I seperate this question is it would actually be unconstitutional to do this and I just want to know your views.

More or less, I wondering how to respond if I am in a discussion with a Pro-Choice person who uses this as an argument.

Pax
 
Prior to Roe v Wade, most states prosecuted the doctor, nurse and assistants. The mother may have gotten a fine or not prosecuted at all.
 
I wrote the following on another thread today in the politics section. It fits you thread topic well, so I’ll start by quoting it.
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gardenswithkids:
Performing abortions is significantly different from having an abortion.

Persons who profit from performing abortions act with pre-meditation. Abortionists prey on women in crisis pregnancies. Society should not tolerate educated medical professionals who profit from preying on girls and women in vulnerable situations. Society should protect itself from predators. Abortionists make their living by killing large numbers of small people.

In contrast to abortionists, girls or women in a crisis pregnancy may not have fully “pre-meditated” the act. Worries and fears from a crisis pregnancy may cloud the ability to think clearly. Partner, parents or others often pressure and coerce women abort. There are a number of other factors that may contribute to the decision to abort.

Laws makers, prosecutors and judges can factor the circumstance and details into account if abortion ever becomes illegal again. Not all crimes must be punished with jail—sometimes community service, probation and/or fines suffice to punish and defer further crimes. I favor very long jail sentences for persons who perform abortions, but something else for the women who have abortions.
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LtPaint said:
…, do you think that if abortion was made illegal, all women who have had an abortion before the laws were changed should be made criminals? The reason I seperate this question is it would actually be unconstitutional to do this and I just want to know your views.
Pax
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Friend -The retroactivity of the law is -I think not good. It is the same as the change of rules DURING the game -without prior notification. Yes -the principial morality and CONSCIENCE in the DEPTH of person will be the same -no matter how the law changes. But that CONSCIENCE of people grown on society living the pro-choice is malFORMED by this culture of death =they inwardly accept the abortion as somethnig O.K… And there is problem to determine the guilt for that genocide -to determine how many guilty are individual persons. And this determination of the guilt is not solvable by ANY people -it is solvable only by the Cross. We should NOT judge them after the abortion abolishment.

Also, when the slavery was abolished there were not prosecuted the slaveholders retroactively…

But I think if the abortion were abolished the main problem is in the MIND/THINKING of people -not on the paper/bill. The major problem is to BEAR OUT FROM the culture of death TO the culture of life. Ephesians4,23: Your mind was to be renewed in spirit 24 so that you could put on the New Man that has been created on God’s principles, in the uprightness and holiness of the truth.
Because of this I think the main work of pro-life movement is to GET people UNDERSTAND WHY it is bad and secondly to change the laws.
 
I don’t think the law should prosecute the mothers. It wouldn’t help at all; it would only make people angry. I’m more interested in doing what it takes to protect the lives of fetuses than make a statement. IMO, the laws should be more about closing down the clinics and limiting access to abortion than prosecuting people. Of course, this is why such laws must also be coupled with initiatives like you describe: providing safe havens for pregnant mothers and unwanted children, encouraging adoption, etc. Otherwise, it would just drive it underground, creating a host of other problems.
 
It would mean an incredible shortage of doctors.

It would mean the creation of hundreds of thousands of new convicts and the need for new space in prisons or new prisons as well as the need for billions of dollars in new taxes to pay for their incarceration.

It could also mean that pregnancy in hospitals would have to be monitored by the law and each abortion investigated.

Then it could also mean lots more civil lawsuits for various reasons, such as malpractice.
 
Starwynd said:
It would mean an incredible shortage of doctors.

It would mean the creation of hundreds of thousands of new convicts and the need for new space in prisons or new prisons as well as the need for billions of dollars in new taxes to pay for their incarceration.

It could also mean that pregnancy in hospitals would have to be monitored by the law and each abortion investigated.

Then it could also mean lots more civil lawsuits for various reasons, such as malpractice.
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Give me a break.

Even now, with abortion legal in all 50 states, only a very small percentage of doctors perform abortions. In 2005 it was 1787 total doctors (according to Gutmacher) Even if all of them went to jail, the total number of practicing physicians would not change discernably. Over 16,000 new doctors enter the field in the US each year.

Most of those doctors presumably have a skill other than performing abortions and would continue to practice medicine within the law.

But if all of them went to jail, at $60,000 per year, the total cost would be under $110,000,000 per year. That’s a lot but that assumes every single one of those doctors kept practicing, all were convicted at the same time and that they all were sent to prison in the most expensive states. Nowhere near “billions” and a whole lot of planets would have to align to make that happen.

It would be unlikely that this would be an (name removed by moderator)risonable offence anyway. It would be treated in the same way as doctors today who perform unauthorized procedures - they generally lose their licence to practice medicine. Only if they continue to practice without a licence, is jail even a possibility.

Neither would there be any real difference in deliveries in hospitals. Abortions performed in hospitals are usually later term abortions. Even in states where late term abortions stayed illegal at first after Roe, you didn’t see anyone investigating miscarriages or still births.

The assertation about civil malpractice lawsuits doesn’t even make sense. Malpractice suits are brought against doctors who do something negligent within the scope of their legitimate work. If abortion was no longer legitimate, malpractice by abortion doctors would move from a civil to a criminal offense. After the first year, accoding to your prediction, all the doctors would be in jail living off the taxpayers so malpractice wouldn’t be an issue.😃
 
LtPaint said:
In the pro-life movement, which I would consider myself part of, I’ve noticed that there has always been a strong movement towards helping women post-abortion and different ways of helping women steer away from having abortions like clinics, etc.

If abortion was made illegal, would it mean that a women and the doctor who procured the abortion would be convicted of murder? Would they be convicted in the same way as someone who committed a first degree murder? Would people still be trying to help the women who are going through post-abortion trauma?

Also, it your opinion, do you think that if abortion was made illegal, all women who have had an abortion before the laws were changed should be made criminals? The reason I seperate this question is it would actually be unconstitutional to do this and I just want to know your views.

More or less, I wondering how to respond if I am in a discussion with a Pro-Choice person who uses this as an argument.

Pax
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Now as to actual logical possibilities:

– while I would like to see abortion classified as murder, this is very unlikely in the US. If abortion was illegal, it would be probaly be considered an illicit medical procedure. Doctors and enablers (such as people who spirit minors to abortionists) would be culpable. I doubt the mothers would be prosecutable. If somehow they were, it would probaby be negligence not murder.

– post abortion assistance would definately still be necessary and offered. Post abortion assistance is all about healing and there is no reason that would change.

– retroactive prosecution is unconstitutional and would there would be nothing gained even if it was possible.
 
rpp said:
Prior to Roe v Wade, most states prosecuted the doctor, nurse and assistants. The mother may have gotten a fine or not prosecuted at all.
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Right. In Roe v Wade, a Texas abortionist associated his conviction with “Roe”'s appeal. He got off when the court ruled in their favor.

Incidentally, if Sarah Weddington had wanted to help her client get an abortion, she could have found someone to buy a bus ticket to California, or to Mexico where Sarah got hers.
 
– post abortion assistance would definately still be necessary and offered. Post abortion assistance is all about healing and there is no reason that would change.
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This was my main concern. If this didn’t continue, and all we did was imprison women for having abortions, then making abortion illegal wouldn’t really seem to make the problem better, but maybe even worse.

I was talking to someone, and he expresed the view that if we handle abortion like we have handled illegal drugs, meaning we just put those convicted into jail, then we won’t be handling the actual problem. His view was that a pro-life persons first goal should be providing helping to pregnant mothers and women post abortion. Views on this?
 
LtPaint said:
This was my main concern. If this didn’t continue, and all we did was imprison women for having abortions, then making abortion illegal wouldn’t really seem to make the problem better, but maybe even worse.

I was talking to someone, and he expresed the view that if we handle abortion like we have handled illegal drugs, meaning we just put those convicted into jail, then we won’t be handling the actual problem. His view was that a pro-life persons first goal should be providing helping to pregnant mothers and women post abortion. Views on this?
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I don’t know in what country you live but for the US, the drug analogy isn’t far off. Here, there is not usually a criminal penalty attached to actually using drugs. The ones who go to jail are the ones who sell, manufacture or do something else with the drugs (like driving while under the influence). Drug users get counseling, treatment centers, re-hab and even job protection.

In a hypothetical US where abortion is illegal, I could see a similar division where the woman who procurred an abortion would not be considered a criminal and would be able to seek counseling, support, etc. while those who sold the service and did the procedure would be the ones charged with crimnal activity.
 
LtPaint said:
In the pro-life movement, which I would consider myself part of, I’ve noticed that there has always been a strong movement towards helping women post-abortion and different ways of helping women steer away from having abortions like clinics, etc.

If abortion was made illegal, would it mean that a women and the doctor who procured the abortion would be convicted of murder? Would they be convicted in the same way as someone who committed a first degree murder? Would people still be trying to help the women who are going through post-abortion trauma?

Also, it your opinion, do you think that if abortion was made illegal, all women who have had an abortion before the laws were changed should be made criminals? The reason I seperate this question is it would actually be unconstitutional to do this and I just want to know your views.

More or less, I wondering how to respond if I am in a discussion with a Pro-Choice person who uses this as an argument.

Pax
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If abortion was made illegal, I would be very happy 🙂

Yes, people would still help women try to get abortions, just as during the Probation people still tried to get beer and alcohol, even though it was illegal.

No, people who had abortions before they are made illegal cannot be made criminals. Only those who have abortions after they’re made illegal will be committing a crime, and hence, be criminals. And if those who had abortions before they were made illegal continue to have abortions after they were made illegal, than they will be criminals.
 
Starwynd said:
It would mean an incredible shortage of doctors.

It would mean the creation of hundreds of thousands of new convicts and the need for new space in prisons or new prisons as well as the need for billions of dollars in new taxes to pay for their incarceration.

It could also mean that pregnancy in hospitals would have to be monitored by the law and each abortion investigated.

Then it could also mean lots more civil lawsuits for various reasons, such as malpractice.
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This is, frankly, utter nonsense. Gross exagerations and unsupportable assertions meant to do nothing less than frighten people into accepting the continuation of mass murder.

Shame on you for spreading such lies.
 
synjones said:
If this made illegal most of them will just put those convicted into jail, then we won’t be handling the actual problem.
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Firstly, such a law, if we are fortunate enough for it to pass, cannot be retroactive.

Secondly, how it putting lawbreakers into jail not “handling the actual problem”? (No one has suggested on imprisoning the mothers. It is the providers who would be jailed.)
 
synjones said:
If this made illegal most of them will just put those convicted into jail, then we won’t be handling the actual problem.
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The other possibility is to permanently take away the legal privelege to practice medicine…the medical license, the ability to bill insurance companies or medicare, the DEA number (legal permission to prescribe medications).

The problem with making abortion illegal now is that a generation of doctors and nurses have been trained to think of it as an acceptable medical procedure, even as a compassionate treatment. It would be an extremely difficult law to enforce.
 
if abortion were somehow made illegal nationwide – which won’t happen – ex post facto constitional guarantees make it impossible to prosecute anyone before the law comes into effect.

even if illegal, abortions would continue through the assistance of sympathetic doctors and nurses, or self induced, or by the assistance of non-medical helpers. it is wishful thinking to believe otherwise.
 
There would be very little change insofar as the legal system is concerned. Abortion statues would be up to the states. It is unlikely that most states would make abortion entirely illegal without exception.

Even now, as has been pointed out, very few doctors perform abortions. They don’t want to. If the law prosecuted only physicians, as it should, there wouldn’t be much in the way of prosecutions, because most abortionists would simply cease doing abortions. They’ve made enough money on legal abortions to retire.

Compare it to the situation before 1973. How many women were being prosecuted for having abortions? None. The only change would be to dramatically decrease the incidence of abortion.
 
We have a cultural problem that we will not be able to correct over night. In the eyes of all Christians, abortion should be understood to be murder, not a lesser murder. In the eyes of current society, it is considered a lesser murder. If you don’t think so, just look at how we defend the mother’s position. This is understandable if the mother is being strong-armed by parents, boyfriend, etc. If it is the mother’s will, though, is it not pre-meditated murder, plain & simple?

Regardless, our society believes it is a lesser murder. After all, it seems that half of Christians do not give abortion the overriding weight that it deserves in their political priorities. It is just recently that Pro-Life is coming to the forefront as a national priority by Christians.

The best way to handle it would be severe penalties for the abortionist & clinic and significant fine for the mother.
 
There will be a lot more lovely little souls running around, growing up and fulfilling the vocations God has made for them.
 
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