What would a catholic world look like?

[Contarini]

So, you like to have it both ways then? The OT is either the slow revelation of the ultimate truth in Jesus and all the prophecy concerning him or it is not.

How can any part of it NOT have to do with the hastening of the Eschaton, when it was all prefigurement of His coming? Explain.

You are right that I should have worded my post more carefully, such as this: "The purpose for these laws in their original context had nothing to do with hastening. . . "

However, I do not believe that we are supposed to be “hastening” the Eschaton in the sense the Lascivious Rabbit refers to. Rather, we are supposed to be acting in a way that points toward and builds toward the coming of God’s Kingdom. We do this by pursuing truth, beauty, and goodness, by living according to the pattern of Christ’s death and resurrection, by loving one another and all the world, by witnessing to the Gospel of Christ by word and deed, by striving for justice and peace, etc.

The most obvious relevance of the laws in question to this is that, in their original cultural context, these laws harshly reinforced the principle of honoring one’s parents. (I say “most obvious” because of course one can always find more depths in Scripture–believe in the legitimacy of allegorical/spiritual interpretation–so I never want to limit Scripture’s meaning except by the principle that Scripture always promotes faith, hope, and charity). I do not believe that these laws are a direct, timeless reflection of the way God wants society to be structured. I believe that they reflect how ancient Hebrews understood and implemented moral principles in the light of their understanding of God and their covenant with Him.

Edwin

 

[wwolverine]

Imagine there was no other denomination apart from catholicism in the world.

And every living person was a catholic - at least in name.

What would the world look like?

There would still be natural disasters etc obviously … but would there be poverty?

Would there be war?

Would there hunger?

Would there be injustice?

Would be world be a poorer place without the Mormons, Lutherans, Methodists, Jews, Hindus, Orthodox…?

I wonder …

It would have been better if you had asked, what would the world be like if there was no satan at all?

well anyway, as much as we may try to lead our lives the way Jesus taught, we will always be tempted by satan, Imagine if he could tempt Adam and Eve, who had everything at their disposal, and God spoke to them everyday, than what about us?

Temptations will always be there for us and we will always fall, but God is just and He will forgive us if we ask with faith.

 

[KathleenGee]

Back to the Philippines and the ‘empty rituals’, they most certainly are not, of course, but people need to be taught salvation history, the Mass and Word of God, and their catechisms. Good catechists are always full of the Holy Spirit. And if people knew about the great graces of reconciliation, they would encounter great healing without all the mass crowds and fanfare…

In daily life, that which is stable and level and helps people relate their Catholic faith to the world around them, is very supporting.

But when people aren’t verse, the more emotional displays of religion hold sway.

 

[cheese_sdc]

Would there be poverty?

Yes.

Would there be war?

Yes.

Would there hunger?

Yes.

Would there be injustice?

Yes.

 

[Sword_Brethren]

Mary I, of England, a devout Catholic, burned between 300-350 people alive, one by one, hence “bloody Mary”–during her short reign of five years. Even her Spanish husband, Philip II of Spain, couldn’t restrain her.

.

Don’t forget all the Catholics the illegitimate Queen Elizabeth had killed. I think more people with killed under Queen Elizabeth than Queen Mary.

 

[Sword_Brethren]

The invention of the printing press brought cheaper literature to the masses, including the bible–the Gutenberg bible, helping them to learn to read, enabling the Reformation. Before then, books were very expensive. The papacy and the Church ruled–through the monarchies, who enabled them. The nobility and the priesthood–could read; this was a distinct minority. Once print was plentiful and much cheaper, the ability to read spread like wildfire, leading the the Reformation , the rise of the middle class, and, eventually, democracy.

… and the allowing of abortion, pornograhpy, divorce and remarriage, birth control etc, etc, etc, Thank goodness for the reformation and demorcray, not.

 

[James_Least]

There probably would not be any freedom of conscience. Re: Holy Roman Empire and Inquisitions.

There would probably be more poverty. Re: A majority of the places where Columbus and the conquistadors/explorers made landfall in the 15th/16th centuries are still in abject poverty and still controlled by tyrants.(Explorers from Spain, France, Portugal and Italy are included.) Christopher C. proved to be a tyrant as well. The religion they left behind has proven to be a spiritual yoke of bondage as well, probably because of an ever changing pagan idolatry which seems to permeate the impoverished class.

A better idea: let Jesus return and rule with a rod of iron. He knows who has The Truth.

Even so, come Lord Jesus.

Peace,

James Least

 

[Sword_Brethren]

There probably would not be any freedom of conscience. Re: Holy Roman Empire and Inquisitions.

There would probably be more poverty. Re: A majority of the places where Columbus and the conquistadors/explorers made landfall in the 15th/16th centuries are still in abject poverty and still controlled by tyrants.(Explorers from Spain, France, Portugal and Italy are included.) Christopher C. proved to be a tyrant as well. The religion they left behind has proven to be a spiritual yoke of bondage as well, probably because of an ever changing pagan idolatry which seems to permeate the impoverished class.

A better idea: let Jesus return and rule with a rod of iron. He knows who has The Truth.

Even so, come Lord Jesus.

Peace,

James Least

and are not we controlled by tyrants who kill unborn human beings? In many countries in Latin America and South America abortion is against the law, still. The Indians of Latin America and South America inter marriage with Europeans. In protestant America the American Indians were seperated from American society. The Holy Catholic religion is the true religion and not a yoke of bondage like that of the religion of Luther and Calvin.

 

[Sword_Brethren]

There probably would not be any freedom of conscience. Re: and not the freedom of pornography which has killed the souls of many.

 

[Sword_Brethren]

There probably would not be any freedom of conscience. Re:

…and not the freedom of pornography which has killed the souls of many.

 

[Sword_Brethren]

: A majority of the places where Columbus and the conquistadors/explorers made landfall in the 15th/16th centuries are still in abject poverty and still controlled by tyrants.(Explorers from Spain, France, Portugal and Italy are included.) Christopher C. proved to be a tyrant as well.

The Holy Gospel was brought to millions and there was the conversion on millions.

 

[Sword_Brethren]

There probably would not be any freedom of conscience. Re: Holy Roman Empire and Inquisitions.

There would probably be more poverty. Re: A majority of the places where Columbus and the conquistadors/explorers made landfall in the 15th/16th centuries are still in abject poverty and still controlled by tyrants.(Explorers from Spain, France, Portugal and Italy are included.) Christopher C. proved to be a tyrant as well. The religion they left behind has proven to be a spiritual yoke of bondage as well, probably because of an ever changing pagan idolatry which seems to permeate the impoverished class.

European states that become under the bondage of the religion of Luther and calvin like Germany, the nordic states, etc, etc, etc, have produced modern states and societies that reject Christ completely. Poverty of the soul and death of the soul is the result of the revolt of Luther and Calvin.

 

[rinnie]

Imagine there was no other denomination apart from catholicism in the world.

And every living person was a catholic - at least in name.

What would the world look like?

There would still be natural disasters etc obviously … but would there be poverty?

Would there be war?

Would there hunger?

Would there be injustice?

Would be world be a poorer place without the Mormons, Lutherans, Methodists, Jews, Hindus, Orthodox…?

I wonder …

It would not make a difference then. In name only means nothing. For eveyone to be united completely with CHrist you would have to let go of everything. Money, power, lust, etc. Thats what it means to be Catholic. To be Perfect, ChristLike in every way.

We have a loooooooooong way to go. At least I know I do!

 

[James_Least]

and are not we controlled by tyrants who kill unborn human beings? In many countries in Latin America and South America abortion is against the law, still. The Indians of Latin America and South America inter marriage with Europeans. In protestant America the American Indians were seperated from American society. The Holy Catholic religion is the true religion and not a yoke of bondage like that of the religion of Luther and Calvin.

There is a preponderance of evidence that the conquistadors’ primary mission was probably not evangelism. They plundered and pillaged several well established native populations looking for gold not lost souls. The mixing of the gene pool, native and Spanish was probably not done in the sanctions of holy matrimony. Yes, there is an analogy in the U.S.: slave owners and slaves also mixed gene pools–they are called Creoles.

One other point: a majority of those who came to the colonies now known as the United States were fleeing religious persecution, from Rome and from Canterbury(the English Holy See). When the matter of a State Religion came before the Congress, it was hotly debated. Freedom of conscience won, thank the Lord.

The bottom line is: man and his religion is depraved. There is only One Faith once for all delivered unto the Saints. She is still here, still the pillar and ground of the Truth. She is not built on a man, but rather The Lord Jesus, The Christ. She is preserved and lead by His Holy Spirit, not the dogmas and commandments of men.

Peace,

James Least

 

[Sword_Brethren]

There is a preponderance of evidence that the conquistadors’ primary mission was probably not evangelism. They plundered and pillaged several well established native populations looking for gold not lost souls. The mixing of the gene pool, native and Spanish was probably not done in the sanctions of holy matrimony. Yes, there is an analogy in the U.S.: slave owners and slaves also mixed gene pools–they are called Creoles.

st

Not all true. Queen Isabella and king Ferdinand also wanted the conversion of the Indians and many priests went with the conquistadors. Ten of millions of Indians were converted to the true faith. Also the Catholic Church promoted marriages between Indians and European Catholics. The analogy of the Creoles is nothing compared to the millions of marriages between Indians and European Catholics in Latin and South America.

 

[shawn38]

You had it at one time, it was called the middle ages.

 

[Sword_Brethren]

T
One other point: a majority of those who came to the colonies now known as the United States were fleeing religious persecution, from Rome and from Canterbury(the English Holy See). When the matter of a State Religion came before the Congress, it was hotly debated. Freedom of conscience won, thank the Lord.

t

The Church of Canterbury is not Catholic and it has more in common with the way than the Catholic Church. Many English came to America to flee the persecution of the protestant church of Canterbury.

America was not founded by Jesus Christ, the Constitution was not written by Jesus Christ, democracy was not founded by Jesus Christ.

 

[Sword_Brethren]

Freedom of conscience won, thank the Lord.
t

Freedom of conscience won and gave birth to the killing of the human unborn in the millions and that hard core pornography is one of the greatest grossing money making business in America. In our modern America pornography is now viewed as a Constitutional right and so is the killing the unborn. That fruit is not of Jesus Christ

 

[Sword_Brethren]

The bottom line is: man and his religion is depraved. There is only One Faith once for all delivered unto the Saints. She is still here, still the pillar and ground of the Truth. She is not built on a man, but rather The Lord Jesus, The Christ. She is preserved and lead by His Holy Spirit, not the dogmas and commandments of men.

t

That is true for the One Faith is the Holy Catholic Church which was founded by Jesus Christ.

 

[Contarini]

You had it at one time, it was called the middle ages.

To have produced the glories of the Middle Ages would be a jewel in the crown of any religious tradition.

Not, of course, that we either can or should go back to the Middle Ages. They had many evils as well as many glories–remarkably like other periods of history, including our own

Edwin