What would happen if JPII did this?

[Crusader]

What would happen if Pope JPII released an encyclical that:

1.) Re-confirmed that there will never be ordained female priests?

2.) Infallibly proclaimed that there will never be ordained female deacons (not to be confused with the non-clerical deaconesses of the past)?

3.) Eliminated all females and those men would could never qualify to be a priest or deacon from being altar servers?

Would the Church lose or gain members?

 

[Jermosh]

Crusader:

What would happen if Pope JPII released an encyclical that:

1.) Re-confirmed that there will never be ordained female priests?

2.) Infallibly proclaimed that there will never be ordained female deacons (not to be confused with the non-clerical deaconesses of the past)?

3.) Eliminated all females and those men would could never qualify to be a priest or deacon from being altar servers?

Would the Church lose or gain members?

I would hope nothin. But I am not sure or he should do 2&3.

 

[Annunciata]

Of course you are speaking of the everyday now church which has more altar girls than boys…

I don’t quite understand the rest of the 3rd question.
I would say the answer to your question would be probably it would lose members. Not that I personally think it should, but the way a lot of Catholic women think today…:tsktsk:

 

[katolik]

Crusader:

What would happen if Pope JPII released an encyclical that:

1.) Re-confirmed that there will never be ordained female priests?

2.) Infallibly proclaimed that there will never be ordained female deacons (not to be confused with the non-clerical deaconesses of the past)?

3.) Eliminated all females and those men would could never qualify to be a priest or deacon from being altar servers?

Would the Church lose or gain members?

All of this above except the male part of number 3. Come on you don’t expect that there are enough priests, so that every parish has a proper MC who could study the rubrics and know what to do. A 10 year old can’t do this.

 

[puzzleannie]

well he already did #1 and the we are church CTA crowd ignored him, they are pushing huge for female deacons, and #3 is a done deal, the bishops folded on that one. My guess is the same people that ignore papal authority over other issues will ignore it here too as long as they are allowed to get away with it.

 

[katolik]

Annunciata:

Of course you are speaking of the everyday now church which has more altar girls than boys…

I don’t quite understand the rest of the 3rd question.
I would say the answer to your question would be probably it would lose members. Not that I personally think it should, but the way a lot of Catholic women think today…:tsktsk:

Reject the world… or leave boat and become protestant. If your love of the CHurch is so miniscule than leave.

 

[Annunciata]

katolik:

Reject the world… or leave boat and become protestant. If your love of the CHurch is so miniscule than leave.

Katolik, I don’t understand your answer?

 

[mjdonnelly]

If someone is so shallow as to leave the Church over these things, say a prayer for them.

Don’t let the door hit you where the good Lord split you.

 

[Theodora]

Annunciata:

Of course you are speaking of the everyday now church which has more altar girls than boys…

I once asked the woman who at our Church trains the altar servers why she doesn’t pick more boys to serve. Her answer was that is hard to find boys who will serve at Mass. I told her “How sad” and she nodded in agreement.

Theodora

 

[Exporter]

Annunciata:

Katolik, I don’t understand your answer?

---

I think he means that if John Paul II promulgated these three items speaking ex cathredra ( with his full authority) and some people who call themselves Catholic didn’t like it, then if their “social concerns” were more important to them than the teaching of the Church - then let them leave…they were not very Catholic before so, let them leave.

You know, one bad apple in the barrel will cause all the others to rot. I don’t think we need a large group who are more interested in the Feminist Agenda than in what is good for Holy Mother Church. The effect of the three items in the original post would be, in my opinion, to make the Church Militant stronger, more reverent and produce more Priests.

 

[katolik]

Annunciata:

Katolik, I don’t understand your answer?

Well either reject the spirit of the world,you reject the world’s aspirations for you[to go to hell], or you leave the Ark of Salvation[the Church]. If your love of your Holy Mother Church is so small, you should leave. I could never support anyone leaving the Church,[well there are exceptions] but if you spread your errors in the Church you’re out of here. Who knows if we let one little person spread his false ideas in the Church, this could be another Arian crisis resulting from that.[around 80% of the world’s clergy left the Church to become arians] The spirit world wants you to be part of this earth,which will be destroyed, but God wants you to be in heaven with Him. The spirit of the world sets no restraints, it has no boundaries, sin is good and love of God is hate to the spirit of the world. God made us to love Him,and because it is our duty to love Him we have to reject the spirit of the world, becuase to love God we cannot love anything but Him or in Him. We have to live in this world,but not be part of it.

I hope you can understand that.

 

[Crusader]

Theodora:

I once asked the woman who at our Church trains the altar servers why she doesn’t pick more boys to serve. Her answer was that is hard to find boys who will serve at Mass. I told her “How sad” and she nodded in agreement.

Theodora

Such a tired excuse…

I would have been interested in how much effort that parish put into recruiting young men to be altar servers?

 

[Annunciata]

Theodora:

I once asked the woman who at our Church trains the altar servers why she doesn’t pick more boys to serve. Her answer was that is hard to find boys who will serve at Mass. I told her “How sad” and she nodded in agreement.

Theodora

I agree but there are lots of boys in our parish and the girls are the ones coming forward…I know that some of the boys don’t want to serve w/ the girls…so what do you do? Then in my diocese, MA, some of the parents aren’t encouraging their sons anymore…

 

[Crusader]

katolik:

All of this above except the male part of number 3. Come on you don’t expect that there are enough priests, so that every parish has a proper MC who could study the rubrics and know what to do. A 10 year old can’t do this.

Nix. The single reason I dislike the use of female altar servers is because they take-up slots that should go to men or boy who might just be fostering a vocation to the priesthood or permanent diaconate.

Any male ~18+ or so who is well trained and possibly fostering a vocation would make a wonderful MC…

 

[Crusader]

Annunciata:

I agree but there are lots of boys in our parish and the girls are the ones coming forward…I know that some of the boys don’t want to serve w/ the girls…so what do you do? Then in my diocese, MA, some of the parents aren’t encouraging their sons anymore…

1.) Conscript the boys with their parents’ blessings.

2.) Continue (or begin to) recruit.

3.) Eliminate the use of altar girls.

 

[Annunciata]

katolik:

Well either reject the spirit of the world,you reject the world’s aspirations for you[to go to hell], or you leave the Ark of Salvation[the Church]. If your love of your Holy Mother Church is so small, you should leave. I could never support anyone leaving the Church,[well there are exceptions] but if you spread your errors in the Church you’re out of here. Who knows if we let one little person spread his false ideas in the Church, this could be another Arian crisis resulting from that.[around 80% of the world’s clergy left the Church to become arians] The spirit world wants you to be part of this earth,which will be destroyed, but God wants you to be in heaven with Him. The spirit of the world sets no restraints, it has no boundaries, sin is good and love of God is hate to the spirit of the world. God made us to love Him,and because it is our duty to love Him we have to reject the spirit of the world, becuase to love God we cannot love anything but Him or in Him. We have to live in this world,but not be part of it.

I hope you can understand that.

Oh, I thought you were criticizing ME…I say Love Her and All that goes with Her or leave Her! (the Church)
I don’t condone the feminist agenda one bit!
If one is truly loyal to the Church and all Her teachings, there wouldn’t even be an issue!

 

[Crusader]

********************
I think he means that if John Paul II promulgated these three items speaking ex cathredra ( with his full authority) and some people who call themselves Catholic didn’t like it, then if their “social concerns” were more important to them than the teaching of the Church - then let them leave…they were not very Catholic before so, let them leave.

You know, one bad apple in the barrel will cause all the others to rot. I don’t think we need a large group who are more interested in the Feminist Agenda than in what is good for Holy Mother Church. The effect of the three items in the original post would be, in my opinion, to make the Church Militant stronger, more reverent and produce more Priests.

Bravo. Well said.

 

[Annunciata]

1.) Conscript the boys with their parents’ blessings.

2.) Continue (or begin to) recruit.

3.) Eliminate the use of altar girls.

yes if you could start recruiting after 1st Communion the way my sons were and they served till they were both 16. In my parish, they have to be a least 4th grade…to late! Get 'em when they are young and yes the altar girl thing is a real problem…but how do you tell them no now after they’ve been allowed?

 

[Crusader]

Annunciata:

yes if you could start recruiting after 1st Communion the way my sons were and they served till they were both 16. In my parish, they have to be a least 4th grade…to late! Get 'em when they are young and yes the altar girl thing is a real problem…but how do you tell them no now after they’ve been allowed?

I think as you build the altar boy ranks, the altar girls would slowly disperse…

Just handle it in a dignified way and be honest about the need to do everything possible to foster priestly vocations. That alone should silnce any critic.

 

[Theodora]

Crusader:

Such a tired excuse…

I would have been interested in how much effort that parish put into recruiting young men to be altar servers?

Never entered my mind to ask her that question. It’s a good suggestion, though. I might ask that question in the future, at the appropriate time. I am naive - I thought teachers or the pastor just ask boys and girls in class if any of them would like to be an altar server, and that it is a matter of volunteering. I would think (me being naive, again) that during catechism class the students are told about the great honor of serving at Mass. I have no idea of the culling process for altar servers.

Theodora