What would happen if JPII did this?

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I would follow whatever the Pope said to do. This is what being Catholic is all about.

I don’t think it is very likely to happen, however. Pope John Paul II didn’t even approve Redemptionis Sacramentum in forma specifica to give it papal authority. And item (3) would be done with an apostolic letter moto proprio, not an encyclical.
 
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Crusader:
Nix. The single reason I dislike the use of female altar servers is because they take-up slots that should go to men or boy who might just be fostering a vocation to the priesthood or permanent diaconate.
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And I suppose your objection to women deacons is that they would drive male permanent deacons away? Are there really that many adult males who still think that women have “girl cooties”?
 
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Catholic2003:
And I suppose your objection to women deacons is that they would drive male permanent deacons away? Are there really that many adult males who still think that women have “girl cooties”?
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Can someone translate into English? What are ‘girl cooties’? I hope that’s not impolite. Girl altar boys (!!##??) [serviettes] will invariable drive out the boys because it becomes a girlie thing to do. Women deacons is a contradiction in terms. It’s Deaconesses surely?
Code: 
       Deaconesses in dresses,
       What a messes,
       Our churches have become.
You try doing better with this material!
 
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Catholic2003:
And I suppose your objection to women deacons is that they would drive male permanent deacons away? Are there really that many adult males who still think that women have “girl cooties”?
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Wow you sexist/feminist qualities are really shining through. I follow the Church which does not allow female deacons. If it was stated dogmatically that the Church will never ordain a female deacon, I think a great deal of energy and resources could stop being wasted.

Then again, maybe not. Even though ordained women priests is an impossibility, that hasn’t stopped a great number of whackos from pushing their most self-serving of agendas of ordaining women.
 
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Catholic2003:
I would follow whatever the Pope said to do. This is what being Catholic is all about.

I don’t think it is very likely to happen, however. Pope John Paul II didn’t even approve Redemptionis Sacramentum in forma specifica to give it papal authority. And item (3) would be done with an apostolic letter moto proprio, not an encyclical.
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Given the language of Redemptoris Sacramentum, there is no doubt that JPII would prefer that all altar sarvers be boys or men who might be discerning a call to the priesthood or permanent diaconate.

With the exceptions of perhaps a remote convent or woman prison, I see very few situations where the altar server ranks could not be fully stocked by men and boys who just might be discerning a call.

To fill these slots with females is to put the septic values of sexism/feminism ahead of the Church.
 
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Crusader:
What would happen if Pope JPII released an encyclical that:

1.) Re-confirmed that there will never be ordained female priests?

2.) Infallibly proclaimed that there will never be ordained female deacons (not to be confused with the non-clerical deaconesses of the past)?

3.) Eliminated all females and those men would could never qualify to be a priest or deacon from being altar servers?

Would the Church lose or gain members?
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Nothing would happen. The Church has always held #1, more than likely has always held #2. #3 What men or boys would not qualify, except homosexuals at this point?
 
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Catholic2003:
Pope John Paul II didn’t even approve Redemptionis Sacramentum in forma specifica to give it papal authority.
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The following are the closing lines of Redemptionis Sacramentum, as published at: ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDWRDSAC.HTM

"All things to the contrary notwithstanding.

This Instruction, prepared by the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments by mandate of the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II in collaboration with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, was approved by the same Pontiff on the Solemnity of St. Joseph, 19 March 2004, and he ordered it to be published and to be observed immediately by all concerned.

From the offices of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, Rome, on the Solemnity of the Annunciation of the Lord, 25 March 2004."

Looks like a pretty clear and authoritative approval.
 
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Servulus:
Looks like a pretty clear and authoritative approval.
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This is approval in forma communi, which gives Redemptionis Sacramentum curial authority.
 
Br. Rich SFO:
Nothing would happen. The Church has always held #1, more than likely has always held #2. #3 What men or boys would not qualify, except homosexuals at this point?
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Perhaps an 85 year old?
 
Jim ov Cov:
Can someone translate into English? What are ‘girl cooties’? I hope that’s not impolite. Girl altar boys (!!##??) [serviettes] will invariable drive out the boys because it becomes a girlie thing to do.
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“Girl cooties” are what altar girls have that drive out the altar boys. Apparently it is American-only slang.
 
Speaking as a former altar boy and current seminarian, I can wholeheartedly affirm that the problem will not go away until we eliminate female altar servers altogether. Boys, especially young boys (8-12?), simply don’t want to be around girls that much. They like activities that involve only them. In addition, it is unfair to the young women who have the same sort of psycho-spiritual experience that many of the boys do and who then want to become priests. The permission was allowed in order to better supply for mission territories, women’s prisons, and cloistered convents. There is simply no other good reason to use them.
 
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Annunciata:
Get 'em when they are young and yes the altar girl thing is a real problem…but how do you tell them no now after they’ve been allowed?
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You simply tell them that no one has a right to serve at the altar and that the Church has found the position of altar server to be a fertile ground for vocations to the priesthood. Besides, sometimes it’s necessary to admit when we are wrong. People thought altar girls were going to be a great idea. Well, we were wrong. This doesn’t mean the girls themselves are bad, just that the idea was.

Gray Mouser
 
The church always grows stronger when truth is not hidden under a bushel of weaved rhetoric.

God Bless

PS Deacons are ordained to the priesthood of Christ, women can never be ordained deacons in the Catholic Church because God has not called women to his sacramental priesthood.
 
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Deacon2006:
The church always grows stronger when truth is not hidden under a bushel of weaved rhetoric.

God Bless

PS Deacons are ordained to the priesthood of Christ, women can never be ordained deacons in the Catholic Church because God has not called women to his sacramental priesthood.
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Unfortunately that has never been dogmatically stated by the Church. At least not yet.
 
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Crusader:
Unfortunately that has never been dogmatically stated by the Church. At least not yet.
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However:

I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful" JP II

I believe the Pope clearly means the full priesthood of the Church in all three levels. It is sacramental ordination that makes a priest a priest and this is introduced first to a deacon, personified in the presbyter and reaches fullness in the bishop. There is only one sacrament of Holy Orders in three degrees and the earthly matter of the sacrament is a man. To ordain a woman to the deaconate nullifies the basis for a male only priesthood ie the lack of authority to ordain women.

Besides, infallible teachings do not require dogmatic formulas. Unless told otherwise the 2000-year unbroken tradition of the church that limits all ecclesial ordination to men is an infallible doctrine of the Church by the decree of positive ecclesial history. And lets not forget that just a few years ago the Pope has explicitly stated that ecclesial ordination does not envision female ordination to the diaconate.

God Bless
 
Can 749 §3 No doctrine is understood to be infallibly defined unless this is manifestly demonstrated.

Res ipsa loquitur.

John
 
Actually, for as reluctant as I am to admit it, the Church has never defined whether or not women may be ordained as deacons, and whether or not the “deaconesses” of the early Church were women who received the Sacrament of Orders.

In fact, the Holy Father a few years ago set up a Commission to investigate the matter (whether or not women were ever “ordained”). The Commission basically conluded that women were never sacramentally ordained as deacons.

The Pope has yet to make any proclamation based on the findings.

By far, the vast majority of Catholic theologians beleive that early deaconesses were not “female deacons” and that it is impossible for the Church to ordain them.

I for one agree with them. See this thread on the subject. Very well-documented.
 
Jim ov Cov:
What are ‘girl cooties’?
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I asked my son, they are a form of organism, not yet able to be seen by scientists that are bad for you. They make you like girls and want to date them.

😃
 
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mjdonnelly:
I asked my son, they are a form of organism, not yet able to be seen by scientists that are bad for you. They make you like girls and want to date them.

😃
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Additionally, they are highly contagious, so the only way to be sure not to get them is to completely avoid all contact of any sort with girls.
 
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DominvsVobiscvm:
In fact, the Holy Father a few years ago set up a Commission to investigate the matter (whether or not women were ever “ordained”). The Commission basically conluded that women were never sacramentally ordained as deacons.
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Any idea how to get a copy of the Commission’s report? I’ve been completely unable to find it, either online or from a bookstore.
 
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