W
Windfish
Guest
So you were addressing Protestants on a Catholic forum? Because that has never been a Catholic belief.
- Status
V
valentino
Guest
That’s like asking what would you do if to your satisfaction it was proved that the sun didn’t exist.Are you saying we cannot know anything?There"s no reality?
S
sidbrown
Guest
Since I am a theist, the question would be what would I do if it were proven that God did not exist. First of all, I don;t see how you could do that, it seems to me like it would be like trying to prove 1+1 = 0. But anyway, suppose I were wrong, and it was proven that God does not exist. In a hypothetical case like that, I would continue my life about the same as it is now, except that I would spend more time trying to figure out what drives some people to altruistic or charitable behavior. And I would question as to how consciousness and awareness of our surroundings could arise from evolution from rocks or other non-living substances.
I am aware, conscious and I think, whereas rocks do not, therefore I would question any proof that denies the existence of some sort of spiritual world.
C
Candide_West
Guest
Hi Valentino, not sure on the connection there i must admit and no I am not saying we cannot know anything. I’m offering a hypothetical situation and asking people how they think this would affect them.
To answer your question if it were just proven to my satisfaction and nobody else that the sun didn’t exist then I expect I’d just carry on as normal pretending it did. Maybe I’d try to write a scientific paper about the proof I had but aside from that I don’t suppose it would affect me.
If it was proven to everyone that it didn’t exist then I suspect the majority of affects would be externally imposed. Ie the basis for astronomy would presumably go out the window.
Any thoughts about how it would affect you if it were proven to your satisfaction that God does not exist?
Thanks
V
valentino
Guest
CandideWest: I’m sorry.Just went back to your OP and noticed this was addressed to Athiests.I missed that the first time around.
C
Candide_West
Guest
Well it’s addressed to both Athiests and Thiests really, I assume since your tag shows you as a Catholic that the question for you is “What would you do if it were proven to your satisfaction that God does not exist”.
Thanks
C
Candide_West
Guest
Hi Sidbrown,
Thanks for your reply, what you wrote above is basically what happened to me when I realised that i didn’t believe in God any more. I had exactly the same kinds of questions too, led me to taking a much greater interest in evolution in particular, but also in people’s behaviour. Thanks for your thoughtful post.
Thanks to everyone who has replied incidentally it’s been really interesting and enlightening. I hope others have found the topic interesting.
M
Mystic_Banana
Guest
As a theist, I’d pretty much give up on the pretence of effectively purposeful behaviour, since suddenly, such would be simultaneously proven to not exist… actually ,no, I’d pursue some other belief system that would indicate hope in continual existence - I’m sure there are some forms of non-deity based spirituality, which aren’t simply some kind of metaphorical pretence… they’re a pretty shallow hope, from what I’ve seen of them, but that’s all I’d say there would be, rationally speaking! 
F
Foreigner
Guest
You have to be honestly honest with yourself and go with what you believe to be the truth.
Otherwise you are a liar.
M
MindOverMatter2
Guest
A more interesting question would be “Why do we do anything at all”. If one ceases to be, there is no more potential suffering, and one has no regret losing pleasure because one has no knowledge in non-existence, and thus there is nothing to regret. We all want to be happy because are genes tell us to want it. We have a non-rational erge or instinct to do this or that thing. But what is the point of wasting time pursuing it when you can simply solve the problem by erasing ones life altogether. Once you are dead the issue of fulfilling human emotions becomes as irrelevant as it is objectively meaningless. Surely that’s the most rational cause to pursue, to go against non-rational desires to live and be happy? Being a slave to meaningless emotions in a meaningless reality is hardly freedom, or rationality, or dignifying. Perhaps dying is the only truly free and rational act we can make since we are acting against the blind and meaningless desire to live, a life for which all emotions are a function.
Why do we bother continuing to exist and bringing more people into it if there is no objective meaning, moral value, or purpose to life? Are we slaves the fear of death, loneliness, or some other meaningless genetic mutation?
Without God we have no rational reason to continue existing. There is just the meaningless dictates of our emotions for which we are all evidently slaves.
A
AntiTheist
Guest
I’ve seen this type of gloomy tripe from you before, and I continue to be deeply unimpressed with it.
There are some people who sincerely think that the only reason to do anything at all is their belief that some kind of magical pixie dust is giving “objective meaning” – whatever that means – to their actions.
As I’ve explained in other posts, these ideas do not arise from an engagement with reality, but from fantasies of the mind. A few minutes a day paying attention to reality will go very far in revealing the folly of using these fantasies as the basis for action.
Quiet your mind right now and really engage with the moment. Feel what it’s like to feel and be right now. What is it that you want? You want a sandwich? Then go make a sandwich – you don’t need to believe that it will be forever and objectively purposeful for you to make that sandwich, and you don’t need to believe that the world will be “better” with a sandwich in it than without it for you to make that sandwich.
“Why bother doing anything?” Because you bloody well can. Because you’re a living being with desires and goals and feelings and all the rest.
M
MindOverMatter2
Guest
You to, in the absence of God, are a slave to objectively meaningless emotions and desires. You boast and glorify the slavery of your reality because you are either too ignorant or too afraid to do what’s rational. Cussing me out because of a tendency to either blind arrogance or fear of the truth, will not change that. It only shows how much of a slave you really are.
S
sidbrown
Guest
Do you have a proof that this is true? It is not accepted as true by many non-beleivers.
M
Mystic_Banana
Guest
Well, can you think of any?
V
valentino
Guest
CandideWest: i 've never thought much about it.God is on my mind in everything I do.I know if I had never turned to God my life would be completely different.If I learned at this point in my life that there was no God I might go out and kill someone.Trully I don’t know what I would do.
C
Candide_West
Guest
Hi mystic banana,As a theist, I’d pretty much give up on the pretence of effectively purposeful behaviour, since suddenly, such would be simultaneously proven to not exist… actually ,no, I’d pursue some other belief system that would indicate hope in continual existence - I’m sure there are some forms of non-deity based spirituality, which aren’t simply some kind of metaphorical pretence… they’re a pretty shallow hope, from what I’ve seen of them, but that’s all I’d say there would be, rationally speaking!
Thanks for posting. I’m curious about what you wrote about effectively purposeful behaviour. Would be grateful if you could expand on what you mean by the term please? Secondly could you tell me why you think the absence of God makes it impossible?
Also Interesting that you believe you’d seek out some other form of belief. Why do you think you would you do that? Do you think you’d be unable to live without purposeful behaviour or does it seem like a logical necessity to you or something else?
Thanks for taking the time to write.
C
Candide_West
Guest
Hi Foreigner, not sure I get what you are saying. It looks like you are saying that in the hypothetical situation it was proven to you that god did nor exist then you would not believe in him?
Please let me know if I misunderstood.
For what it’s worth I definately agree you need to be honest about what you believe. Especially with yourself.
Regards
S
Soldier_Of_God
Guest
A person’s ideology is a prime mover and motivator their lives. To discount it shows unsophisticated reasoning.
C
Candide_West
Guest
Hi, MindOverMatter2, thanks for writing, it was an interesting post. It is surprising to me that you write so highly of the benefits of suicide. Personally I don’t agree. I think the reason for the imbalance in your position is in the way you have considered avoiding suffering to be a worthwhile goal, but not considered experiencing happiness to be a worthwhile goal.
You could just as easily write the argument the other way that we should try to stay alive because once we are dead we no longer get to experience happiness. And whatever suffering we would have experienced doesn’t matter because we can no longer be grateful for not needing to endure it.*
From my own perspective I do not view life as a “problem” to “solve”. But something to be valued and enjoyed, I am generally happy in my life, I view this to be a positive thing and see nothing which tells me I should seek to cease this state.
Incidentally I thought the statement about wasting time was ironic. After all in that sentence you were advocating wasting all the remaining time you have in your life by committing suicide.
Could you clarify what you mean by objective meaning please, and also why you feel it’s absence makes life so pointless?
From my own perspective, I can certainly understand and indeed myself experience the desire for a higher purpose to our lives, especially when times are hard. But I don’t believe we need God to create that. For example a close family member of mine has been going through a tough time recently and I’ve been doing what I can to help him. Ultimately he’s going to die and nobody will care what I did. So it has no “objective value” but it has value to him and that is enough for me.
I’m sorry you feel that way and I’m glad that you have found a way to live a life which is meaningful to you through your religion.*
I hesitate to ask under the circumstances but any thoughts on what you would do if it were proven to your satisfaction that God doesn’t exist?*
A
Aesculus
Guest
For me,
Materially not much would be different tomorrow, as I’d probably have no inclination to go on a eating/killing/buying/sex spree out of just plain habit, but things would probably be very different 10 years from now, depending on which ideas latched on in my head (and something must necessarily latch on!!!). For without God and no objective moral standard, on what should I predicate my actions? And what about my desire for life? I certainly wouldn’t kill myself, for life is good, and I can’t imagine ending sooner that which I have only fleetingly to begin with. But everything in this life would have a tinge of deep and inconsolable sadness to it, knowing that my children and I will very soon, perhaps at any instant, be NOTHING. Whether or not I believe in God, I above all other things desire to BE, yet if my understanding of my mortality included the impossibility of some sort of continued existence, I suppose I would despair… so I’d probably not think on it too much, probably get really distracted by my material concerns, perhaps commiserate with others in this pit of despair, maybe even drag a few people down with me!
Materially not much would be different tomorrow, as I’d probably have no inclination to go on a eating/killing/buying/sex spree out of just plain habit, but things would probably be very different 10 years from now, depending on which ideas latched on in my head (and something must necessarily latch on!!!). For without God and no objective moral standard, on what should I predicate my actions? And what about my desire for life? I certainly wouldn’t kill myself, for life is good, and I can’t imagine ending sooner that which I have only fleetingly to begin with. But everything in this life would have a tinge of deep and inconsolable sadness to it, knowing that my children and I will very soon, perhaps at any instant, be NOTHING. Whether or not I believe in God, I above all other things desire to BE, yet if my understanding of my mortality included the impossibility of some sort of continued existence, I suppose I would despair… so I’d probably not think on it too much, probably get really distracted by my material concerns, perhaps commiserate with others in this pit of despair, maybe even drag a few people down with me!
- Status