What would you think of female deacons?

[misstherese]

I’ve been seeing some threads pop up about female altar servers, female priests, etc. What about female deacons? Currently only male deacons are allowed, but I think Pope Francis is open to the idea at the moment. What are your thoughts?

 

[stpurl]

Well, female deacons, from the little that we know and can prove, performed the function of assisting at baptisms of women (and baptism, by full immersion, was done in the nude so having men to administer would be a problem!)

They were not ordained. Ever.

So since we rarely have full immersion baptisms in the nude, since we already have plenty of lay women (i.e., not ordained) who can have all kinds of titles, and do, like director of religious education, parish coordinator, etc. etc., and since the term ‘female deacon’ would confuse the Hades out of most people because they would equate it with the (ordained) office of deacon, I think that Pope Francis will, as previous Popes before him have done, study the question and come to the conclusion that there is no area where a non-ordained woman performing the functions that non-ordained women already do needs to have a confusing title placed upon her in order to satisfy a certain contingent of nagging people who want an ego-boo. . .that is my opinion, of course, with absolutely no intent to deride or disparage anyone who thinks differently, and I am as always open to people with different ideas.

 

[otjm]

The fact that something gets studied is in no way an indication that it has merit. The matter has been studied for some time; suggesting that studies go further does not mean that the presumption is made that somewhere something new is going to be found in the archives.

As to what I think about it - I need to conserve grey cells, so I don’t waste time on it.

If some writing or other artifact actually showed up and was authenticated as valid and true, indicating that in the early Church there were ordained female deacons, then truth is truth. That would not mean automatically that the Church would start ordaining women, or that it would even consider doing so, as the context would need to be established - which in itself might be just short of completely impossible.

However, I have no evidence that any such thing has been found or will be found, if for no other reason than that if such had happened early on the likelihood is that it would already be known, by references in other documents.

I don’t have a dog in the fight. Rome has said it is not possible, and that is perfectly fine by me. should matters be discovered which change that, then I follow Rome.

However, I don’t anticipate anything whatsoever. Nor do i have any desires in the matter either way. What Rome says, I follow. It makes for a much simpler set of issues I have to deal with.

The all-male priesthood is not just a matter of what Christ gave us; it goes back centuries before, to Moses and Aaron, if not farther (whoever Melchizedek was, e.g.). Some people get stuck. It is past time to unstick, and get on with evangelizing.

 

[RobynP]

I wouldn’t hate it. But I’d submit to the Church’s decision either way.

I’m also alright with the idea of women cardinals, since it’s a purely human office and there’s no intrinsic connection between the office of cardinal and Holy Orders, but I doubt that will happen anytime soon.

 

[Duesenberg]

Women will NEVER be ORDAINED in the Catholic Church. That said I can’t help but think at some point the Church will create some sort of vestment and Mass function for Lay Ecclesial Ministers and 98% of the LEMs will be female.

 

[CatholicSpirit]

I can tell you how I feel about the decline in Nuns…

 

[pnewton]

I don’t care. What exactly this would entail would need to be known for even a semi-intelligent opinion. The Church has not closed the door either on ordination to the diaconate like it has the ministerial priesthood. I do not think there is any movement toward this though.

 

[OraLabora]

Like I do in almost all things, I will follow the Church whichever direction she takes on this. Like otjm, I’m not going to burn any grey cells worrying about it.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I’m fine with it but not holding my breath for it to happen any time soon.
If it did, maybe I’d try to sign up, but my guess is they’d say I was too old.

 

[godisgood77]

I’d be fine if we returned to the pracitice of having female deacons.

And as others have noted, I would be fine with having female cardinals as there is no law or justification for keeping them from this responsibility

 

[Gorgias]

Currently only male deacons are allowed, but I think Pope Francis is open to the idea at the moment.

Actually, he’s not.

During a conference of women religious (IIRC), Pope Francis agreed to open a study of the history of female ‘deacons’ in the early Church. The media (as well as those for whom the ordination of women is a cause celebre) spun that announcement as if the Pope were open to considering the ordination of women to the diaconate. Later, the Pope corrected that misinterpretation:

“With all due respect,” information is often “filtered” by journalists, Francis said, adding that he would like to go into what had happened in detail.

One of the questions Francis had been asked at his meeting with the International Union of Superiors General in May 2016 was why a commission was not set up to study the diaconate for women in the early church in order to find out whether women deacons were ordained or not and what sort of work they did, Francis said.

“My answer was, ‘Yes, why not? That would be a good opportunity to research the subject.’ … It was a matter of studying the topic and not of opening a door.”

Unfortunately, that clarification didn’t get picked up by the media. What a surprise…

 

[TheLittleLady]

We will have some interesting conversations with Joe Pewsitter and Sally the Inquirer because that would mean we are resuming the early Church practice of men and women in separate areas, baptism by full immersion in the nude, etc.

Parishioners would likely balk at the cost of building the two full immersion baptismal fonts.

It would make life interesting!

 

[Usige]

I’m all for it… as soon as we return to adult full immersion baptisms in the nude.

The question for me has always been “Why” people are so interested in seeing female XXXX. The Church survived, and thrived, for nearly 2000 years without female deacons, priests, altar servers, et cetera. Since Vatican II many spiritual and pastoral things have been transferred or shared with the laity so I don’t know why people want to continue to try removing any and all distinction between males and females; to treat them as if they are basically interchangeable.

For me I think that opening the diaconate as an ordained office for women will raise questions in areas of Sacramental Theology that will see a renewed push for female priests. Holy Orders is a single sacrament in three grades. Why would one grade be opened to either gender, but the other grades be closed to women?

 

[FrDavid96]

I don’t care. What exactly this would entail would need to be known for even a semi-intelligent opinion. The Church has not closed the door either on ordination to the diaconate like it has the ministerial priesthood. I do not think there is any movement toward this though.

That is not true. The Church has been quite clear that the Sacrament of Ordination can only be conferred on a baptized male.

Claiming that the Church has left the door open is to speak an untruth: it is nothing short of a lie.

 

[FrDavid96]

I’ve been seeing some threads pop up about female altar servers, female priests, etc. What about female deacons? Currently only male deacons are allowed, but I think Pope Francis is open to the idea at the moment. What are your thoughts?

It is a meaningless question.

The Sacrament of Ordination cannot be conferred on a woman. The teaching of the Church is absolutely clear on this.

The ordination of a woman is simply impossible.

 

[pnewton]

You may be right. I found where the issue of the priesthood has been settled. I could not find anywhere this has been defined. I would like to see this for myself, but I will not ask for help. However, I also encourage others not to believe without evidence. If I find where this has been said definitively, I will link if it.

Oh, and yes, it is quite short of a lie. Surely as a priest you understand the best way to avoid rash judgment is that we don’t assume the worst in others. Such an accusation should not be thrown at another lightly. At most, it is a mistake, assuming I can document what you have said.

 

[pnewton]

I note the formal declaration of the Pope is as follows:

I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.

https://w2.vatican.va/content/john-...p-ii_apl_19940522_ordinatio-sacerdotalis.html

I also found there is some evidence that Pope Francis is unsure on this matter.

The Pope set up the commission at the request of the International Union of Superiors General, the organisation for the leaders of women’s religious orders around the world. Meeting the group in May, Pope Francis said that while his understanding was that the women described as deacons in the New Testament were not ordained as male deacons are today, “it would be useful for the Church to clarify this question.”

http://catholicherald.co.uk/news/2016/08/02/pope-sets-up-commission-on-women-deacons/

The pope responded that he had spoken about the matter once some years ago with a “good, wise professor” who had studied the use of female deacons in the early centuries of the church. Francis said it remained unclear to him what role such deacons had.

“What were these female deacons?” the pontiff recalled asking the professor. “Did they have ordination or no?”

https://www.ncronline.org/news/vati...mmission-study-female-deacons-catholic-church

I guess I don’t understand the rush to have a “strong opinion” on the matter. Pope Francis has also said he is not trying to have female deacons in any form by having this commission. He just wants to know the history of the female diaconate and explore the question, at least that is how it seems to me.

 

[pnewton]

They should not marry and become nuns.

I bet there are a lot of young men would strongly disagree with this.

Edit: On second thought, you are right. No woman (or man) should “marry and become a nun.”

 

[FrDavid96]

You may be right. I found where the issue of the priesthood has been settled. I could not find anywhere this has been defined. I would like to see this for myself, but I will not ask for help. However, I also encourage others not to believe without evidence. If I find where this has been said definitively, I will link if it.

…

The Catechism is quite clear. There is no ambiguity.

1577 "Only a baptized man (vir) validly receives sacred ordination…

So too does the 1983 Code of Canon Law
Can. 1024 A baptized male alone receives sacred ordination validly.

The equivalent in the 1917 Code is canon 811

The Church has stated that only a man can be validly ordained. The Church has said it over and over again.

 

[pnewton]

The Catechism is quite clear. There is no ambiguity.

1577 "Only a baptized man (vir) validly receives sacred ordination…

So too does the 1983 Code of Canon Law

Can. 1024 A baptized male alone receives sacred ordination validly.

I was curious about this, so I looked it up. As I thought, you printed the same thing twice, as the Catechism specifically reference canon 1024 as a footnote when it says that only a baptized man receives sacred ordination. I understand that. At this time, and for centuries, it has been part of canon law. The question the Pope seems interested in is what was done back when there were people called deaconesses.