What's a clear, charitable "come-back" for protestants?

[Legal_Eagle]

“**No Father, we belong a non-denominational church… But in the end, we both worship the same God. Right?”. **

You say, “Yes, we do, and he loves us both very much.”

If complete strangers are approaching you in kindness to ask you about your vocation, you do not represent the Church well when you demean their Christian faith.

 

[ElizabethPH]

I think Cat’s response was wonderful too.

 

[jmcrae]

No, preaching the Gospel is not a religious work.

Then what kind of a work is it? (And if it isn’t “work,” then why should we pay people to do it?)

 

[Elizabeth2]

As a seminarian I usually travel through Rome wearing the Roman collar which usually grabs the attention of many tourists, etc… Many of them stop to talk and many of them happen to be protestants who are open/respectful towards the Catholic Church, yet set in their ways. When I inquire if they are Catholics they usually respond, “**No Father, we belong a non-denominational church… But in the end, we both worship the same God. Right?”. **

Sometimes I’m not sure how to take advantage of the occasion to respond charitably without leading them to believe that I think its indifferent to be Catholic or non-denominational.

From your experience, could anyone recommend a clear, charitable “come-back” for these occasions? Something that would not turn them off but rather make them think twice and perhaps open up to a deeper conversation…

Thank you and God bless you.

How about. “Yes we do worship the same God, but I think it makes a difference in how we worship Him, would you like to talk about it?”

 

[CentralFLJames]

Sacraments can’t save you.

Oops, I thought Protestants believed in the power of the sacrament of Baptism and the Catholic Church even respects that correct scriptural truth?

It is blasphemy to trust in them at all.

Uh oh, I think you just condemned yourself for believing in Baptism?

There is no Purgatory.

Sigh, given the contradictions and blasphemies above you better pray there is or go to confession. Ooops, Protestants don’t believe in the sacrament of confession. You better come talk to one of us Catholics about this pickle you got yourself into…

BTW - this is distracting from the OP topic - might want to spin off a new thread.

James

 

[jmcrae]

Oops, I thought Protestants believed in the power of the sacrament of Baptism and the Catholic Church even respects that correct scriptural truth?

Not all do - there are a great many different forms of Protestantism.

This is why when some kinds of Protestants come into the Church, they have to receive a “conditional baptism” - because although they were baptized, the minister doing the baptism did not believe that it was a Sacrament. This raises the question of “proper intent.” Did that minister have the intention to do what Jesus meant by “baptism” when he baptized that person?

 

[rayne89]

I was evangelical Protestant for over 40 years before converting to Catholicism in 2004.

You are a priest, right? You are Christ’s representative on this earth.

Here is my suggestion. Answer, “Yes we do,” since after all, theologically, they are correct. You will not be disavowing the Catholic Church to admit that Protestants are correct in some of their views.

Then offer to bless them.

If they hesitate, ask them if they’ve read Pastor Gary Smalley’s book, The Blessing. (You might want to get hold of this book and read it yourself first.)

Gary Smalley was my pastor in the church I grew up in and he is accepted by evangelical Protestants as a paragon of solid Biblical truth.

His book The Blessing is all about the importance of Christians blessing each other, as outlined in the Scriptures. Offering a blessing to someone is a very “Biblical” thing for Christians to do. It is not some wierd “Catholic” ritual.

So if they refuse the blessing, suggest that they read Pastor Smalley’s book, and then smile and say your goodbye. Please say a private prayer for them, though.

But hopefully your Protestant friend will say yes to your request to bless them.

So do your priestly work and give them a blessing.

They will be extremely touched, and believe me, they will never, ever forget it. Your touch and your words of blessing will stay in their hearts and minds forever.

Protestants have very few “tangibles” in their practice of Christianity to cling to, and when they do have contact with a “tangible”, it is very meaningful to them. I believe that many Protestants are absolutely starved for the “tangibles,” which not only include the seven sacraments (especially Eucharist), but also tangibles like human touch, blessings, the Sign of the Cross, Rosaries, Holy Water, candles, art work, etc.

I believe this is one reason why Protestants “church hop.” They are searching for substance, for something “real,” and they think they can find it by being more “spiritual.” They don’t realize that it is in the physical that God reveals Himself and works in us. They haven’t connected this with the Incarnation of Jesus and His physical coming and dwelling and dying among us. Instead, they have the incorrect idea that the “physical” is of this world and therefore, should be avoided. So they continue to starve and continue to wander about seeking a place “to be fed.”

I and my husband were starved for all these tangibles, and when we started attending the Catholic Church, we felt like we had stumbled into a castle full of rich treasures.

Our daughter, who is a professional stage manager, feels the same way. Long before she decided to become Catholic, she said that all the other churches are just “pageants,” while the Mass is the real thing.

I believe your powerful blessing, offered as Christ’s representative, will continue to work in their lives and eventually bring them home to the Catholic church.

God bless you as you witness in love to those outside of the Catholic Church!

Excellant!!

 

[jemfinch]

Sacraments can’t save you.

Peter seems to disagree with you. “Baptism now saves you.” Boom. A sacrament with salvific value. Given the choice between FredSmith and Saint Peter, I’ll pick Peter, thanks

The rest of your posts are just the standard mindless trolls (i.e., claims made without any substantiation, obviously not intended in the spirit of thoughtful discussion) that have been countered time and again, so I’m disinclined to waste my time replying.

Jeremy

 

[SD_Catholic]

No, preaching the Gospel is not a religious work.

Fred, Fred, anyone, anyone… you’ve been awful busy since joining… hopefully you’ve read some other threads that deal with many of the topics you seem to have major concerns with. If not I’m sure many will freely offer some very helpful information, but be careful it could lead you to the truth.

SD

 

[Erich]

No Purgatory. Straight to Hell.

The Bible says that no one is without sin and that when we die, we either go to Heaven or to Hell, depending on whether or not we died in Christ or died in our sins. There is no Purgatory.

So then, since all have sinned (Rom. 3:23) and nothing unclean will enter the presence of God in Heaven (Rev. 21:27), we are all destined for Hell?

I hope and pray not!

 

[Pixie_Dust]

BTW - this is distracting from the OP topic - might want to spin off a new thread.

Not really - maybe Fred is here to help us practice our “clear, charitable come-backs.”

 

[jmcrae]

So then, since all have sinned (Rom. 3:23) and nothing unclean will enter the presence of God in Heaven (Rev. 21:27), we are all destined for Hell?

Not if we make frequent use of the Sacraments of the One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, since it is in and through them that Jesus purifies our souls and makes us to be without sin, and worthy to enter into Heaven.

And of course by the intercession of the Saints in Heaven.

*Pray for us, O holy Mother of God, that we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ. *

 

[FredSmith]

Then what kind of a work is it?

It isn’t a work at all.

(And if it isn’t “work,” then why should we pay people to do it?)

Because the Bible says so.

 

[FredSmith]

So then, since all have sinned (Rom. 3:23) and nothing unclean will enter the presence of God in Heaven (Rev. 21:27), we are all destined for Hell?

I hope and pray not!

Depends. Are you born again?

 

[Mannyfit75]

It isn’t a work at all.

Then what do you call it?

Because the Bible says so.

According to your interpretation of the Bible. Why should we give you more credit than the 2,000 yrs old Catholic Church who have more experience than you?

 

[Mannyfit75]

Depends. Are you born again?

I am, I was baptized in Nov 23, 1975 as an infant.

Commanded by Christ and taught by the Apostles.

Matthew 28:19 - “Go therefore … baptizing them in the name of the Father …”
Mark 16:16 - “Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved”
John 3:5 - (No one enters heaven without baptism of water and spirit)
Acts 2:38 - “Peter [said] … repeat and be baptized”
Acts 2:41 - (Those accepting St. Peter’s message are baptized; 3000 members are added.)
Acts 8:12 - (Once they believed Philip’s teaching, men and women were baptized.)
Acts 8:38 - (Philip baptized the Ethiopian eunuch)
Acts 10:48 - “he [Peter] ordered them to be baptized”
See also: - Mark 10:38, John 3:22, Acts 9:18, Acts 16:15, Romans 6:3, 1 Corinthians 12:13, 27; Galatians 3:27
Replaces the need for circumcision.
Colossians 2:11-12 - (Baptism is described as the “circumcision of Christ”)
See also: - Genesis 17:12-14

Jesus sets the example for us.

Matthew 3:16 - “After Jesus was baptized, he came up from the water”
Mark 1:9 - “Jesus came … and was baptized in the Jordan by John”
Luke 3:21 - “and Jesus also had been baptized”

Is regenerative.

John 3:5, 22 - born of water and the spirit; Apostles begin baptizing
Romans 6:3-4 - So by our baptism into his death we were buried with him, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the Father’s glorious power, we too should begin living a new life
Acts 2:37-38 - repent, be baptized, receive the Holy Spirit
Acts 22:16 - And now why delay? Hurry and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name
1 Corinthians 6:11 - “now you have had yourselves washed, you were sanctified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and through the Spirit of our God”
Ephesians 5:26 - “cleansing her by the bath of water with the word”
Colossians 2:12 - “burned with him in baptism … raised with him [in] faith”
Hebrews 10:22 - So as we go in, let us be sincere in heart and filled with faith, our hearts sprinkled and free from any trace of bad conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Titus 3:5 - saved us through bath of rebirth and renewal of the Holy Spirit
1 Peter 3:21 - “It is the baptism corresponding to this water which saves you now - not the washing off of physical dirt but the pledge of a good conscience given to God through the resurrection of Jesus Christ”
See also: - Romans 4:23-25, Galatians 3:27, 1 Peter 1:23
Takes away all sin.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Mark 1:4 - (John the Baptist preaches a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.)
Mark 16:16 - “Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved”
Luke 3:3 - (John the Baptist still preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins)
John 1:33 - (John testifies that Jesus is the one who baptizes with the Holy Spirit)
John 3:5 - (No one enters heaven without baptism of water and spirit)
Acts 2:38 - “be baptized … for the forgiveness of your sins”
Acts 22:16 - “have yourself baptized and your sins washed away”
Colossians 2:13 - “you were dead [in] transgressions … he brought you to life”

Not to be repeated.
Ephesians 4:5 - “one Lord, one faith, one baptism”
Hebrews 6:4-6 - (After the “enlightened” [baptized] fall away, they cannot be enlightened again.)
Hebrews 10:26 - (No sacrifice for sins after deliberate sin after knowing the truth)

Faith of others is efficacious.
Matthew 8:5-13 - (Jesus heals a servant because of the Centurion’s faith)
Matthew 15:21-28 - (Daughter healed because of the Canaanite woman’s faith)
Luke 5:20 - “when he saw their faith, he said … ‘your sins are forgiven’”
Luke 7:7 - “say the word and my servant will be healed”

To be administered to children “Infant Baptism”

Joshua 24:15 - “As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD”
Matthew 8:5ff - servant healed because of centurion’s faith
Matthew 15:21ff - daughter healed because of the Canaanite woman’s faith
Matthew 18:14 - (It is not the will of God that children be damned.)
Matthew 19:14 - “Let the children come to me”
Mark 10:14 - let the children come, for such is the kingdom of Heaven
Luke 7:1ff - just say the word, and let my servant be healed
Luke 18:15-17 - people were bringing even infants to him … whoever does not accept the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it."
John 3:5; Mark 16:16 - (No one enters heaven without baptism of water and spirit)
Acts 16:15 - (Paul and Silas baptize Lydia and her whole household)
Acts 16:30-33 - (Paul and Silas baptize a prison guard and his whole family)
Acts 18:8 - (Crispus, his family, and other Corinthians are baptized)
Romans 5:18-19 - all are born with Adam’s sin and need baptism
1 Corinthians 1:16 - “I baptized the household of Stephanas”
Colossians 2:11-12 - baptism has replaced circumcision
See also: - Mark 10:13-16, Luke 18:15, Acts 2:39, 1 Corinthians 15:22
St. Hippolytus of Rome (c. 215AD) - “Baptize first the children; and if they can speak for themselves, let them do so. Otherwise, let their parents or other relatives speak for them.” (The Apostolic Tradition 21)
Origen (post 244AD) - “the Church received from the Apostles the tradition of giving baptism also to infants.”(Commentary on Romans 5, 9)
St. Cyprian of Carthage (252AD) - this council Council of Carthage ] condemned the opinion that infants must wait until the eighth day after birth to be baptized, as was the case with circumcision. (St. Cyprian of Carthage, Letter 64 (59), 2)

Is necessary for salvation.

John 3:5 - “No one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit”
Mark 16:16 - “Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved”
Acts 16:30, 33 - “what must I do to be saved? … he and all his family were baptized”
1 Peter 3:21 - “baptism which saves you now.”
See also: - Matthew 28:19, Acts 2:38, Acts 16:15

 

[FredSmith]

I am, I was baptized in Nov 23, 1975 as an infant.

That isn’t what it means to be born again (at least not according to the Bible.)

See also: - Romans 4:23-25, Galatians 3:27, 1 Peter 1:23
Takes away all sin.

These don’t say that baptism takes away sin. If you believe they do, then how do you reconcile them to the Bible’s declaration that Christ is the Lamb of God who takes away sin?

 

[FredSmith]

Then what do you call it?

Call it what you like, it still isn’t a work as works are defined by the Bible.

According to your interpretation of the Bible. Why should we give you more credit than the 2,000 yrs old Catholic Church who have more experience than you?

Because I’m right.

Why don’t you tell me how I’ve misinterpreted this verse.

 

[deb1]

Fred, could you bring up some of these issues on seperate threads.

It isn’t fair to the OP to derail his question. Plus, there are people of many faiths who come to this forum. They will look for information on some of the issues that you bring up, but they won’t be able to easily find them, unless each issue has its own thread.

As I am guessing that you want people to read and hear what you have to say, why not start a seperate thread for each issue that you have raised?

If you don’t know how to start a thread, go back to the beginning page of the forum. There should be a button at the top to start a new thread.