What's a "man's" work duty?

[Polluted]

Here’s how I see it. I would be required to discuss it with her and heed her words on some level if she was my wife.

She’s not my wife. She made sure of that so she could get a wedding she deemed worthy.

I too have bigger aspirations than thrift stores and ricearoni. But what if that was the reality of what we had to deal with for a while. What about for better or FOR WORSE. What if I didn’t have a choice. Would she still be so happy to stay married with me?

What about things like her using birth control? Where’s my justice and her responsibility to hear my wishes? She fully plans to stay on birth control when married.

What about my “feelings” with our wedding. What about what I can actually offer vs what she’s demanding with regards to a multi thousand dollar wedding? Where’s my compromise.

Everyone of her family and herself as well views me as aa man who has a duty to her and our child. Which I agree I do…But where is the outrage a shaming over my other son and his mother? I should had moved to a foreign place and worked 70+ hours a week when she left right? Where was the outrage? Why am I being held accountable and shamed now?

People have very warped and sick views…Even more warped than my own.

 

[pensmama87]

Here’s how I see it. I would be required to discuss it with her and heed her words on some level if she was my wife.

She’s not my wife. She made sure of that so she could get a wedding she deemed worthy.

I too have bigger aspirations than thrift stores and ricearoni. But what if that was the reality of what we had to deal with for a while. What about for better or FOR WORSE. What if I didn’t have a choice. Would she still be so happy to stay married with me?

What about things like her using birth control? Where’s my justice and her responsibility to hear my wishes? She fully plans to stay on birth control when married.

What about my “feelings” with our wedding. What about what I can actually offer vs what she’s demanding with regards to a multi thousand dollar wedding? Where’s my compromise.

Everyone of her family and herself as well views me as aa man who has a duty to her and our child. Which I agree I do…But where is the outrage a shaming over my other son and his mother? I should had moved to a foreign place and worked 70+ hours a week when she left right? Where was the outrage? Why am I being held accountable and shamed now?

People have very warped and sick views…Even more warped than my own.

I do not mean this to be cruel, but I do not think you are ready to get married.

I’m also inclined to be sympathetic to your intended because the door is still wide open for her to be entirely reasonable. A “multi-thousand dollar” wedding could be $2000-$3000, or it could be ten times that much. You’re also remarkably sparse on details and speak in very damaging (but general) terms that could mean anything. If that’s how you speak to her, I could see how it could be really difficult to have effective communication.

With two kids already, yes, you have some serious financial needs and most women interested in marriage want some assurance that you will behave prudently and rationally. You’re spiritualizing it, but if you really think that’s the way you want to live, is it wise to put that burden on a spouse and potential future children?

 

[Lou2U]

Here’s how I see it. I would be required to discuss it with her and heed her words on some level if she was my wife.

She’s not my wife. She made sure of that so she could get a wedding she deemed worthy.

I too have bigger aspirations than thrift stores and ricearoni. But what if that was the reality of what we had to deal with for a while. What about for better or FOR WORSE. What if I didn’t have a choice. Would she still be so happy to stay married with me?

What about things like her using birth control? Where’s my justice and her responsibility to hear my wishes? She fully plans to stay on birth control when married.

What about my “feelings” with our wedding. What about what I can actually offer vs what she’s demanding with regards to a multi thousand dollar wedding? Where’s my compromise.

Everyone of her family and herself as well views me as aa man who has a duty to her and our child. Which I agree I do…But where is the outrage a shaming over my other son and his mother? I should had moved to a foreign place and worked 70+ hours a week when she left right? Where was the outrage? Why am I being held accountable and shamed now?

People have very warped and sick views…Even more warped than my own.

I agree with Lorelei12 that if you did quit without speaking to your fiancee or without lining up another job first, then that was irresponsible, but I do understand why you did so from your description.

I read your post above OP, and what came to my mind was - do you want to marry your fiancee? I understand you feel obligated to marry her because you have a child together, but do you love her? Do you want to spend the rest of your life with her? I don’t mean to offend but you don’t seem to be very compatible with each other. Your fiancee shows no real interest in the finances you have, and wanting a large wedding when you can’t afford it is very irresponsible of her. Is she Catholic?

Also, as to your point above, then yes, if you do something that will impact the future you and your fiancee will have then you should discuss it with her. No, you aren’t married, but you need to be able to communicate effectively and solve issues together before you are married.

The last thing - if you aren’t sure whether you want to marry her, don’t. Think about it, talk about it but don’t go through with making the commitment until you’re sure you want to be committed. Likewise with her - does she want to be married because she wants a wedding, or does she want to be married because she wants to marry you?

I’m sorry, though. It’s a really awful situation to be in.

Lou

 

[ConfusedLucy]

I don’t know who is right or wrong but the two of you need to work on your communication, it sounds like a lot of resentment has been building at your end. There is plenty of middle ground between being a bum and working 70 hours but it sounds like you have very different expectations of an acceptable life. It may be difficult to resolve this.

 

[Lou2U]

I don’t know who is right or wrong but the two of you need to work on your communication, it sounds like a lot of resentment has been building at your end. There is plenty of middle ground between being a bum and working 70 hours but it sounds like you have very different expectations of an acceptable life. It may be difficult to resolve this.

I agree.

Lou

 

[mommy_k]

So your fiance and her parents have the traditional view that you should be sole support, but how come they are not traditional enough to foot the bill for the wedding of thier dd?

I would very much wonder about that.

I agree that marital expectations should be discussed.

 

[AClaire11]

So your fiance and her parents have the traditional view that you should be sole support, but how come they are not traditional enough to foot the bill for the wedding of thier dd?

I would very much wonder about that.

I agree that marital expectations should be discussed.

I was wondering about that, too, actually.

 

[Polluted]

All of us are paying for the wedding. Me, my fiance, her family, etc. All I have to do is be patient (for a couple years) so that the giant party is all set up then marry her when shes finally satisfied with all the arrangements.

Ya im a monster, a monster for not sticking with this job meanwhile she keeps telling me to “call of sick” for days off, take 3 days off for our wedding, and another week so we can fly to Mexico and take our honeymoon. Its THAT simple, especially when you are in a management position overseeing 24 employees running a store that requires 70 hour work weeks. You know, just disappear and everything is gonna magically stay in place and work itself out. Just how its all gonna magically work out now that I suddenly quit with no extra job.

I am bitter folks. SOOOO bitter. Maybe I should just bite my tongue and proceed to marry her and it will all work out like I secretly hope. Maybe this stupid idea in my head will actually work. You know, marry her and suddenly things will magically take care of themselves.

Maybe ill just get over the fact that ive had to wait for 2 years over this burger king wedding so she could have it “Her way”

Maybe ill just accept the fact that she is gonna continue to eat birth control and pump her body with hormones then wonder 'Why am I so confused emotionally"

Maybe ill just fall into line and work non stop so she can obtain whatever life she sees for her and myself.

Some of you posters are right. Im being “Too spiritual” or trying to make this spiritual. Why worry about Church teaching or a spiritual life like actually GOING to church? After all I get to have an awesome Catholic wedding, thats what this whole “conversion” thing was about right.

 

[Lou2U]

All of us are paying for the wedding. Me, my fiance, her family, etc. All I have to do is be patient (for a couple years) so that the giant party is all set up then marry her when shes finally satisfied with all the arrangements.

Ya im a monster, a monster for not sticking with this job meanwhile she keeps telling me to “call of sick” for days off, take 3 days off for our wedding, and another week so we can fly to Mexico and take our honeymoon. Its THAT simple, especially when you are in a management position overseeing 24 employees running a store that requires 70 hour work weeks. You know, just disappear and everything is gonna magically stay in place and work itself out. Just how its all gonna magically work out now that I suddenly quit with no extra job.

I am bitter folks. SOOOO bitter. Maybe I should just bite my tongue and proceed to marry her and it will all work out like I secretly hope. Maybe this stupid idea in my head will actually work. You know, marry her and suddenly things will magically take care of themselves.

Maybe ill just get over the fact that ive had to wait for 2 years over this burger king wedding so she could have it “Her way”

Maybe ill just accept the fact that she is gonna continue to eat birth control and pump her body with hormones then wonder 'Why am I so confused emotionally"

Maybe ill just fall into line and work non stop so she can obtain whatever life she sees for her and myself.

Some of you posters are right. Im being “Too spiritual” or trying to make this spiritual. Why worry about Church teaching or a spiritual life like actually GOING to church? After all I get to have an awesome Catholic wedding, thats what this whole “conversion” thing was about right.

I understand the situation is hard. If you really want things to improve, you need to be proactive. You need to sit down with your fiancee and tell her calmly why you can’t afford to have a big wedding or honeymoon. If she can’t accept that, then you need to reevaluate the relationship.

If you do marry your fiancee, then your attitude towards her needs to change. Like I said above, I know your situation is difficult. But it isn’t improved by bitterness, and it isn’t improved by feeling resentful towards her. Have you actually had a conversation with her asking her why she wants a big wedding? Has she heard from you that you don’t think it’s possible? Have you been able to talk calmly with each other about this?

If you think everything will work out when you marry, it won’t. There will be more conflict and more resentment building up between the pair of you. If you really want to marry, you need to resolve all of this before.

Lou

 

[Polluted]

The stakes are high too? You know whats gonna happen once I tell her I dont want to get married this January? She will probably want to break up. Which means thats son #2 who is gonna grow up in a broken home. That means Im gonna be back to living miles away, renting a room and probably working at a grocery store to survive. Back to no support, no nothing which her family has helped provide for us in spades.

Ill lose it all. Why is it so hard to not marry this girl? Because ill lose all of it and the closest thing to a stable family I have ever had. Social suicide thats where this is heading. But what about the alternative? Why dont I just work a job that breaks me mentally and physically, drives me into depression, enter a marriage I dont really want, marry a girl I am now bitter towards who I gave my soul and in exchange was given a quota to meet and a lifestyle that is extremely hard for someone who struggles with the demons that haunt me. Maybe this marriage will last for a bit ya know? Maybe she will put up with me and my depression and absence from our lives until one of us cant take it anymore. Maybe I leave. maybe she does…maybe ill finally get to practice my spirituality when im writing to the tribunals about “why I need an annulment”. Then we can finally split because we are sick of wasting a decade of our lives, with my second son JUST old enough for this to shatter him mentally while he goes through a nasty divorce at the age of reason.

Dont you guys see why this is such a good idea? Dont you see why I should had just kept this job? Dont you see why I should had just kept marching forward into a life I secretly dont want? Its a good plan right? Then I can have 2 kids out of wedlock, a felony, AND a divorce. Meanwhile when I finally have the strength to leave that high paying job I can at least pay her Alimony on TOP of child support and 40k in student loans. OOOOO The peace and joy I will have, meanwhile I get to enjoy a second man raising my son and helping fund their lifestyle that SHE was finally brave enough to go seek!

Thats why I should had kept that Job.

Thats why I should had thrown all this “Spiritual” **** out the window.

I see the future, I see it! Its not paranoia nor is it me over thinking. I know where this situation is heading. And im not sure if im brave enough to stop it. I give up you hear me! I surrender to this satanic influence that engulfs our society. Where a wedding is more important than a spiritual bond. Where that union is MOCKED by the high courts and suddenly anyone who speaks out against such perversion like a materialist wedding or even 2 men getting married should be jailed.

You win this battle Satan. I cant beat the game your playing with the hearts and minds of all of society and my closest loved ones. You have won in convincing them that anyone with a world view such as mine or the willingness to fight against it is living in a fantasy! The only use a Catholic Church has in 2016 is for giving me a wedding that looks cool in a movie, any of the teachings it stands for though are downright insane! Psychotic, and Laughable!

 

[LightBound]

With all charity, the demands she has placed on you and your response to those demands seems to indicate that if marriage is in the future between you two, there must be some changes. Changes of behavior, changes of heart, changes of how you both will work together in a marriage. If not, I cannot see going ahead with the nuptials as being a good thing. Prayers for you and this situation

 

[ConfusedLucy]

Please get some relationship counselling, this sounds really unhealthy. I would also see if there are any financial skills courses in your area. I don’t want to judge your fiance as she isn’t here to defend herself but I can’t imagine spending a fortune on a wedding there is a child needing financial security.

 

[1ke]

I think a big piece of the solution for you is to stop having sex and children with women you aren’t married to.

That is the root of the problem. You have obligations to women you don’t want to be married to because you have children with them. You have obligations to the children you created.

Remain faithful to your obligations to your children. That does not mean you must marry their mother(s).

You really need some counseling for your all or nothing doomsday scenarios you have in your head, for your bitterness towards the world, for your continuing spiritual struggles.

You’ve made some bad choices in the past, and those you have to live with as do we all. But you don’t have to be the author of additional misery by continuing to make bad choices. Start today making different ones.

Go find a job that is neither fast food nor 70 hours per week. It’s not all or nothing. It’s not mansion or tent. You mention you went to college, so apply for new jobs. Reevaluate your relationship with the woman your are currently engaged to. Reevaluate your parenting-- you have rights as a father, and you should have visitation and/or custody options. But, a judge isn’t going to look kindly on an unemployed father-- so get a new job.

And talk to your priest for counseling. You have a lot to work out. Don’t pile more on yourself with an unwanted marriage.

 

[Xantippe]

All of us are paying for the wedding. Me, my fiance, her family, etc. All I have to do is be patient (for a couple years) so that the giant party is all set up then marry her when shes finally satisfied with all the arrangements.

Ya im a monster, a monster for not sticking with this job meanwhile she keeps telling me to “call of sick” for days off, take 3 days off for our wedding, and another week so we can fly to Mexico and take our honeymoon. Its THAT simple, especially when you are in a management position overseeing 24 employees running a store that requires 70 hour work weeks. You know, just disappear and everything is gonna magically stay in place and work itself out. Just how its all gonna magically work out now that I suddenly quit with no extra job.

I am bitter folks. SOOOO bitter. Maybe I should just bite my tongue and proceed to marry her and it will all work out like I secretly hope. Maybe this stupid idea in my head will actually work. You know, marry her and suddenly things will magically take care of themselves.

Maybe ill just get over the fact that ive had to wait for 2 years over this burger king wedding so she could have it “Her way”

Maybe ill just accept the fact that she is gonna continue to eat birth control and pump her body with hormones then wonder 'Why am I so confused emotionally"

Maybe ill just fall into line and work non stop so she can obtain whatever life she sees for her and myself.

Some of you posters are right. Im being “Too spiritual” or trying to make this spiritual. Why worry about Church teaching or a spiritual life like actually GOING to church? After all I get to have an awesome Catholic wedding, thats what this whole “conversion” thing was about right.

OK, I’m going to say it–you wouldn’t be where you are today if you had followed church teaching on chastity.

Babies are not brought by the stork.

 

[Xantippe]

**I think a big piece of the solution for you is to stop having sex and children with women you aren’t married to.

That is the root of the problem. You have obligations to women you don’t want to be married to because you have children with them. You have obligations to the children you created.**

Remain faithful to your obligations to your children. That does not mean you must marry their mother(s).

**You really need some counseling for your all or nothing doomsday scenarios you have in your head, for your bitterness towards the world, for your continuing spiritual struggles.
**
You’ve made some bad choices in the past, and those you have to live with as do we all. **But you don’t have to be the author of additional misery by continuing to make bad choices. Start today making different ones.
**
Go find a job that is neither fast food nor 70 hours per week. It’s not all or nothing. It’s not mansion or tent. You mention you went to college, so apply for new jobs. **Reevaluate your relationship with the woman your are currently engaged to. ** Reevaluate your parenting-- you have rights as a father, and you should have visitation and/or custody options. But, a judge isn’t going to look kindly on an unemployed father-- so get a new job.

And talk to your priest for counseling. You have a lot to work out. Don’t pile more on yourself with an unwanted marriage.

Right.

 

[cjb_914]

The stakes are high too? You know whats gonna happen once I tell her I dont want to get married this January? She will probably want to break up. Which means thats son #2 who is gonna grow up in a broken home. That means Im gonna be back to living miles away, renting a room and probably working at a grocery store to survive. Back to no support, no nothing which her family has helped provide for us in spades.

From what you’ve said about her desire to use birth control, you can’t marry her in good conscience. If one of the parties is not open to life (read: children), then my understanding is that marriage can’t take place. As to the broken home, this is exactly why the church teaches against cohabitation, and premarital sex. You can still fix this, but it is going to require the cooperation of his mother. You’ve seem to have clearly done as much as you can and are at your wits end about all this. As such, let me say: Be at peace. You have done your best to provide a stable home for this child. If the mother won’t help you in bringing that about, it isn’t your fault. As to the support of her family, and your working at a grocery store, I thought you were okay with that life? Regardless, I wouldn’t worry. God will test us, but not beyond our strength. It sounds corny and is the last thing you want to hear when everything seems to be falling apart, but that’s exactly what you need to do. You need to trust Him! I speak from experience, He will not abandon you to your fate.

Ill lose it all. Why is it so hard to not marry this girl? Because ill lose all of it and the closest thing to a stable family I have ever had. Social suicide thats where this is heading. But what about the alternative? … with my second son JUST old enough for this to shatter him mentally while he goes through a nasty divorce at the age of reason.

The bit about social suicide points to an impediment to marriage if you are serious. If you don’t want to marry her, but are afraid not to, then the church cannot marry you two.

Dont you guys see why this is such a good idea? Dont you see why I should had just kept this job? Dont you see why I should had just kept marching forward into a life I secretly dont want? Its a good plan right? Then I can have 2 kids out of wedlock, a felony, AND a divorce…

You are putting words into the mouths of these people. I don’t recall anyone saying you should have kept the job. Only that you should have talked to her before you quit, or lined something else up if you had a family to support.

I see the future, I see it! Its not paranoia nor is it me over thinking. I know where this situation is heading. And im not sure if im brave enough to stop it. I give up you hear me! I surrender to this satanic influence that engulfs our society. Where a wedding is more important than a spiritual bond. Where that union is MOCKED by the high courts and suddenly anyone who speaks out against such perversion like a materialist wedding or even 2 men getting married should be jailed.

???
No one here is saying that you should get married to someone you don’t want to marry, except you. Everyone was saying that the right decision was to get out of that job situation, but that you could have done it in a better and more constructive way (I.E. Lining something up first if you had a wife and kids to support, or at least letting your fiancee know). No one at all said “You should have kept that job, so you could marry her”. From what you’ve said, I think most people here would probably say you should not marry her, and there appear to be serious impediments to marriage.

You win this battle Satan. I cant beat the game your playing with the hearts and minds of all of society and my closest loved ones. You have won in convincing them that anyone with a world view such as mine or the willingness to fight against it is living in a fantasy! The only use a Catholic Church has in 2016 is for giving me a wedding that looks cool in a movie, any of the teachings it stands for though are downright insane! Psychotic, and Laughable!

The only game that you are able to challenge him in right now, is the one he is playing for your soul at this very moment. He is trying to drive you away from God and his church. The Catholic Church in 2016 actually won’t let you get married in the state you’re in, if what you say is true. You are intending to marry her in significant part because you are afraid of losing the closest thing to a family you have. That fear alone is an impediment for marriage. The Catholic Church agrees with you that marriage should be more than a ‘cool looking wedding’, and in the diocese I’m in, you have to start marriage prep a MINIMUM of six months prior to your intended wedding date and it’s recommend you start earlier, just incase it runs long. My fiancee and I are being counseled one on one (one on two I guess?) with a priest who is assessing whether or not we’re fit to marry, and fit to marry each other. I don’t envy your situation, and it seems the stress of the situation is getting to you. I will keep you and your children in my prayers.

One last bit! If you are under the impression any of us speak with the authority of the Catholic Church, we are just, by and large, laymen. We can make mistakes, don’t always know the teaching of the Church by heart, and clearly don’t know the full story (the first post to this one, a LOT of new information tossed out). Take this to a priest or deacon if you’d like a more learned opinion (and even then know that they can still make mistakes).

 

[Irishmom2]

That’s beautiful and maybe it be inclined to live in smuch a way if I saw us as a team. But sadly I don’t. I’m sure it’s easy to see this goes deeper than a simple job. Maybe I’m purposely sabotaging everything because I don’t want to get married to this girl.

And that might actually be the truth.

You don’t sound like you have the same goals/values/beliefs.

You don’t need to marry her, you just need to stay in all of your children’s lives. No matter what it takes to do so, but not just by marrying her.

Once the wedding would be over, where does that leave your relationship? Everything would be fixed between you two? Nope. The delayed wedding is further delaying the reality of the situation.

 

[edwest2]

Sadly it does look like our marriage will not be following through. I understand the one poster about it being temporary for his situation and to get out of debt. Originally that was my plan but I couldn’t do it . I tried my best darn it!

I am glad I got to see this reaction out of her though. The fact that THIS is her response to this scenario is pretty enlightening. It appears she has a hang up with money (allot of people do). I don’t believe in marriage anymore. I believe in what the Church calls marriage but I don’t believe in what society has to say about marriage. All these girls want a “wedding” not the actual “bond”.

Everyone wants to feel like a princess for a day it’s irritating as heck

Some men want to be married but have the get of marriage for money card in the back of their mind: Divorce.

And even single people are struggling financially. Some moving in with relatives or even back home. Before the planned economic collapse of 2008, it was almost a given that most people could expect continued stability, at least. But the economy, though the “too big to fail” guys got bailed out out by the peasants, has not improved after that. And some of the rich and greedy are unconcerned or are unaware of their responsibility towards others.

A few girls I’ve known just wanted the luxury, to be a wife but not a middle-class, everyday one.

amazon.com/Be-Man-Becoming-God-Created/dp/1586174037

I had a good dad. He was not perfect but he did his best. He worked, had a family and a wife he loved. That is just fine. That is how the human race continues. Sure, some men won’t get married, but we all need to serve God.

I am working long hours for a number of reasons.

Ed

 

[kozlosap]

How much money is she making a month? Is she educated. If she’s not working and uneducated, then she needs to enroll in some kind of community college program where, as she moves through classes, her ability to make a reliable living improvees. I can’t even imagine marrying a person who doesnt try to bring in half of the family income. Yes, I’m one of the so-called coastal elites where, in most cases, the men and women have both been to grad school and the man is not the sole breadwinner.

 

[Polluted]

How much money is she making a month? Is she educated. If she’s not working and uneducated, then she needs to enroll in some kind of community college program where, as she moves through classes, her ability to make a reliable living improvees. I can’t even imagine marrying a person who doesnt try to bring in half of the family income. Yes, I’m one of the so-called coastal elites where, in most cases, the men and women have both been to grad school and the man is not the sole breadwinner.

We both are college educated