What's a "man's" work duty?

[AClaire11]

How do you accidentally have a child out of wedlock? You say you are trying to marry them like it’s their fault the baby was born outside of marriage. You both chose to have sex. You did not have to have sex with them. Don’t accuse us of being secular because of valuing financial stability when you’re acting like it’s impossible to just keep it in your pants and you’re such a martyr. If you’re being genuine, then please go get services from your local Catholic charities.

 

[Polluted]

Dont you think I try to strive for stability in my own life? Why do you think Im living with this girl in sin and was about to marry her against my own desires? Stability sounds incredible! Hell its one of the reasons I quit this job. There was zero stability. 16 hour work days, No sleep, no nothing. Ya we can all frown at me, her family included and just say “Be a man” but id be the same type of man who is never around simply because im always at work and so gone emotionally because of how miserable I was at said job.

Haven’t you guys seen those movies where the kids are playing their smallest violins because “Daddy was never around and always working”? Im darned if I do and im darned if I dont folks.

I cant help it that the mother of my first child thought it be fun to destroy what was left of my previous family unity then take my child back to the town she came from hundreds of miles away.

I cant help it that my current relationship has her own ideals and agenda for our future without taking ANY consideration my feelings or thoughts on the issue.

Ive gone to School, have 2 degrees, learned another language, have 2 beautiful kids, and am having a bit of “post college stress” regarding my professional life. As for my romance life at least im willing to honestly speak about where I stand. I KNOW many of you are reading this right and in a crummy marriage that brings you nothing but pain and crumminess. At least Im not in that position

 

[AClaire11]

Living in sin is not laudable.

 

[Polluted]

How do you accidentally have a child out of wedlock? You say you are trying to marry them like it’s their fault the baby was born outside of marriage. You both chose to have sex. You did not have to have sex with them. Don’t accuse us of being secular because of valuing financial stability when you’re acting like it’s impossible to just keep it in your pants and you’re such a martyr. If you’re being genuine, then please go get services from your local Catholic charities.

Heres the difference between you and me though that makes me legit. Can you honestly say your sex life up till or prior to your marriage has been 100% pure in all its forms. You NEVER strayed outside the marital bed in any way? Now consider birth control. Did you use birth control? Are you among the 90%+ of self proclaimed Catholics who are using Birth control?

And as for your financial stability would you be willing to trust in our Lord if you were required to end up in a situation where you were NOT financially stable? Meaning leaving a job, or not accepting money that is dishonest money, or any other scenario?

You guys can scold me all you want for my 2 beautiful kids out of wedlock but whats my alternative? What was the alternative up to the point of conception or even AFTER conception? Get an abortion? Use ABC? Or Keep it in your pants?

Im sorry but NONE of you can tell me to keep it in my pants if a single one of you has ever
-masturbated
-used pornography
-fooled around with another person who you were not married to
-have used or are currently using artificial birth control!

Im sorry but you simply cant. Thats the difference between me and you guys. One guy embraced the life he helped create and does the best to help sustain them even with certain odds working against him. The other guy screams the same message a secular society screams about “Not enough money”, or “not ready yet”…and whatever other reason they use to justify sexual perverse acts (including ABORTION). Many of you are in my EXACT same position spiritually, the difference is you guys took matters into your own hands (with birth control, pornography, or any other method to suppress that potential life you could had created), I on the other hand embraced whatever God was gonna throw at me.

 

[AdamP88]

Heres the difference between you and me though that makes me legit. Can you honestly say your sex life up till or prior to your marriage has been 100% pure in all its forms. You NEVER strayed outside the marital bed in any way? Now consider birth control. Did you use birth control? Are you among the 90%+ of self proclaimed Catholics who are using Birth control?

And as for your financial stability would you be willing to trust in our Lord if you were required to end up in a situation where you were NOT financially stable? Meaning leaving a job, or not accepting money that is dishonest money, or any other scenario?

You guys can scold me all you want for my 2 beautiful kids out of wedlock but whats my alternative? What was the alternative up to the point of conception or even AFTER conception? Get an abortion? Use ABC? Or Keep it in your pants?

Im sorry but NONE of you can tell me to keep it in my pants if a single one of you has ever
-masturbated
-used pornography
-fooled around with another person who you were not married to
-have used or are currently using artificial birth control!

Im sorry but you simply cant. Thats the difference between me and you guys. One guy embraced the life he helped create and does the best to help sustain them even with certain odds working against him. The other guy screams the same message a secular society screams about “Not enough money”, or “not ready yet”…and whatever other reason they use to justify sexual perverse acts (including ABORTION). Many of you are in my EXACT same position spiritually, the difference is you guys took matters into your own hands (with birth control, pornography, or any other method to suppress that potential life you could had created), I on the other hand embraced whatever God was gonna throw at me.

Actually, we can. It doesn’t matter what anyone else has done. You came on here pouring your heart out and you expect us to feel sympathy? The fact that fornication is an objectively sinful act means that all of us can understand that it’s wrong and yes, we can tell you it’s wrong. It doesn’t matter what our sins are. Jesus specifically tells us to admonish the sinner. We are all sinners and all in need of admonishment at times. And we have to accept that from fellow sinners.

You want us to pat you on the back and tell you it’s all good and you should go on justifying your behaviour and your having sex with all these women because “Katie Perry is on the radio telling you to”? You either are slightly detached from reality or you are just trolling.

 

[Lou2U]

Heres the difference between you and me though that makes me legit. Can you honestly say your sex life up till or prior to your marriage has been 100% pure in all its forms. You NEVER strayed outside the marital bed in any way? Now consider birth control. Did you use birth control? Are you among the 90%+ of self proclaimed Catholics who are using Birth control?

And as for your financial stability would you be willing to trust in our Lord if you were required to end up in a situation where you were NOT financially stable? Meaning leaving a job, or not accepting money that is dishonest money, or any other scenario?

You guys can scold me all you want for my 2 beautiful kids out of wedlock but whats my alternative? What was the alternative up to the point of conception or even AFTER conception? Get an abortion? Use ABC? Or Keep it in your pants?

Im sorry but NONE of you can tell me to keep it in my pants if a single one of you has ever
-masturbated
-used pornography
-fooled around with another person who you were not married to
-have used or are currently using artificial birth control!

Im sorry but you simply cant. Thats the difference between me and you guys. One guy embraced the life he helped create and does the best to help sustain them even with certain odds working against him. The other guy screams the same message a secular society screams about “Not enough money”, or “not ready yet”…and whatever other reason they use to justify sexual perverse acts (including ABORTION). Many of you are in my EXACT same position spiritually, the difference is you guys took matters into your own hands (with birth control, pornography, or any other method to suppress that potential life you could had created), I on the other hand embraced whatever God was gonna throw at me.

Everyone needs to take responsibility for their own actions. You need to take responsibility for yours, and you need to stop making the decisions that lead you to struggle as you have been. Everyone has problems in their life, and nobody is perfect. But people can, and do, overcome them by being aware. Of knowing that X will cause Y, that A will lead to B. Once people can understand this, they can change and grow in themselves.

You have had a hard time. But don’t let bitterness overwhelm you. It’s poisonous, and it’s destructive. Use your past to make something of your present. Don’t drown in it,don’t make the same mistakes again and again. Learn from the consequences of these mistakes and don’t choose to make them again.

Lou

 

[Xantippe]

Everyone needs to take responsibility for their own actions. You need to take responsibility for yours, and **you need to stop making the decisions that lead you to struggle as you have been. Everyone has problems in their life, and nobody is perfect. But people can, and do, overcome them by being aware. Of knowing that X will cause Y, that A will lead to B. **Once people can understand this, they can change and grow in themselves.

You have had a hard time. But don’t let bitterness overwhelm you. It’s poisonous, and it’s destructive. Use your past to make something of your present. Don’t drown in it,don’t make the same mistakes again and again.** Learn from the consequences of these mistakes and don’t choose to make them again.**

Lou

Yes.

Polluted, you keep doing what you’ve been doing, you’re going to keep getting what you’ve been getting. As a guy says, “How’s that working for you?”

That’s not being mean or judgy, that’s just reality.

And yeah, it is possible to have sexual self-control outside and inside of marriage. It’s not that hard to find people on CAF who never had sex before marriage and have never used birth control during marriage. I’ve been married 18 years and with the exception of a few weeks where I had to be on birth control pills to control some gynecological symptoms after a miscarriage, I’ve never used birth control. I’ve been pregnant four times and have 3.0 kids.

There’s no possibility of long-term happiness without self-control.

 

[ConfusedLucy]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, have the two of you managed to have a rational conversation about the future?

 

[Polluted]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, have the two of you managed to have a rational conversation about the future?

Absolutely. But we just bump heads about it then eventually just make love and forget it but nothing changes and the problem remains thus it continues

 

[Xantippe]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, have the two of you managed to have a rational conversation about the future?

I’d even ask, Polluted, have you thought about what **your **ideal future looks like? Does it even make sense?

Let’s say that (via some miracle), you convince your fiancee to see things exactly your way. What happens next? You get married, you work your fast food jobs (no more than 40 hours a week!), she doesn’t use birth control, you don’t do NFP (because abstinence is HARD), and you start having a new baby every two years. Within 10 years, you’ll likely have a family of 8-9, all living snugly in a room of your in-law’s home. All that baby-having is also likely to crimp your future wife’s earning potential, so you will have to do the vast majority of money-making–you cannot expect both 50/50 income (name removed by moderator)ut from your future wife and non-stop kids.

The only way that that scenario is going to work at all for you is by signing up for every possible form of welfare under the sun. But you would still struggle, and your kids would wind up in terrible schools.

You say your fiancee values “wealth” more than you do. But is it really wealth, or is it just basic dignity? Is it really so wicked and materialistic to want a home of one’s own and a life off of welfare? Do you have a vision to offer her where, doing things your way, you as a family have a home of your own and are not 80% welfare dependent?

The thing that you’ve been missing in this discussion is that men who expect large families have to work harder, not less than men with one or two children. Also, if you were breaking down mentally and physically under the strain of working 70 hours a week with one child at home full-time, it’s very unlikely that you are cut out for a large family.

Again, does your dream make sense? Is it likely to result in a functional, dignified family where you are respected?

 

[Lou2U]

Excellent advice above, OP. I want to add that if you talk about the issues with your fiancee but come to no solution, those talks aren’t going to help your situation. Until you can come to a solution together, as you know, nothing will change. If you want things to change, you have to make them change. Break the cycle, don’t forget about it, and reach a solution **together **.

Lou

 

[Polluted]

I’d even ask, Polluted, have you thought about what **your **ideal future looks like? Does it even make sense?

Let’s say that (via some miracle), you convince your fiancee to see things exactly your way. What happens next? You get married, you work your fast food jobs (no more than 40 hours a week!), she doesn’t use birth control, you don’t do NFP (because abstinence is HARD), and you start having a new baby every two years. Within 10 years, you’ll likely have a family of 8-9, all living snugly in a room of your in-law’s home. All that baby-having is also likely to crimp your future wife’s earning potential, so you will have to do the vast majority of money-making–you cannot expect both 50/50 income (name removed by moderator)ut from your future wife and non-stop kids.

The only way that that scenario is going to work at all for you is by signing up for every possible form of welfare under the sun. But you would still struggle, and your kids would wind up in terrible schools.

You say your fiancee values “wealth” more than you do. But is it really wealth, or is it just basic dignity? Is it really so wicked and materialistic to want a home of one’s own and a life off of welfare? Do you have a vision to offer her where, doing things your way, you as a family have a home of your own and are not 80% welfare dependent?

The thing that you’ve been missing in this discussion is that men who expect large families have to work harder, not less than men with one or two children. Also, if you were breaking down mentally and physically under the strain of working 70 hours a week with one child at home full-time, it’s very unlikely that you are cut out for a large family.

Again, does your dream make sense? Is it likely to result in a functional, dignified family where you are respected?

Wasn’t it YOUR post a few pages back telling me things are.not black and white or that doomsdayish? Is that my future by following Church teaching should I marry this girl? No wonder so many Catholics use ABC with a mindset like yours. Just because I’m still finding my strengths professionally post college graduation and YES needed to work a few fast food jobs to pay my bills…does that make me doomed to a life of welfare and baby making? Is that how you rationalize your own sexual sins? Because I’m gonna shoot out a million babies and end up on welfare? Is that what you say to yourself?

 

[pianistclare]

Frankly that whole “keep it in your pants thing” you posted sounds like a brilliant idea.

Fight against reality all you want. But it’s your choice. People are really trying to make you see that your current mindset doesn’t work.

You’re twisting words because you’re angry. I get it.


The girl has waited and waited, and now push has come to shove.
Time to deal and make way better choices. Lashing out at strangers on the internet instead of talking with her and her parents ain’t one of the options.

There’s a child in the mix. You don’t don’t get to tantrum like a child. No more.
It’s adulting time.

Unsubscribing.

 

[Polluted]

You wanna know what I think? I THINK you guys are angry. Really it’s not me you are scolding but yourselves. Trying to bash down that young man inside you who choose misery and unhappiness. Maybe ya did it because others told you to do it…Maybe take just didn’t have the courage to make a change. But regardless now you find yourselves in an unhappy job and/or marriage, practicing and supporting the things your own faith condemns but you do it in the name of “well I have a family to support and need to keep my suburban life”.

You might own a home, but truth be told you have not felt at “home” in a long while. Cowardice is a Sin folks…remember that. Now someone point me to the nearest welfare office

 

[Lou2U]

What do you want from this thread, OP?

Lou

 

[Xantippe]

Wasn’t it YOUR post a few pages back telling me things are.not black and white or that doomsdayish? Is that my future by following Church teaching should I marry this girl? No wonder so many Catholics use ABC with a mindset like yours. Just because I’m still finding my strengths professionally post college graduation and YES needed to work a few fast food jobs to pay my bills…does that make me doomed to a life of welfare and baby making? Is that how you rationalize your own sexual sins? Because I’m gonna shoot out a million babies and end up on welfare? Is that what you say to yourself?

Well, I’m just asking you to figure out what your plan is. If (using real world facts) you could have everything exactly your way, how would it work? I think your fiancee is actually a distraction here, because even if she were 100% on board, I don’t think your previously stated plan of minimal income and maximal kids is workable, at least not without major outside subsidies. (You did mention quitting a $60k job with no new professional job lined up, in favor of fast food work.)

Using real world facts and probabilities and staying within the bounds of Catholic morals, you have three possible options:

1. work harder/earn more
2. have more self-control

or

1. work harder/earn more and have more self-control.

Also, try to develop your future orientation and be more strategic–line up a new job before quitting the old job, don’t have sex and have babies with women that don’t share your values, actually live your values, don’t give away large sums of money when you are indigent and a father, think harder about your children’s future needs (for example, school), etc.

 

[ConfusedLucy]

Can’t speak for anyone else but I am not angry. I just don’t get how you feel you can go on in a train wreck without any serious communication or planning for the future. This is why I suggested relationship counselling and maybe some careers advice.

Be honest, would you want your children to end up in a relationship like this?

 

[Irishmom2]

You don’t know any of us. And you don’t know what our lives or like, the struggles we’ve been through, or what we may have overcome.

You came here asking for help/opinions/advice and we are answering based on what you have told us. You don’t like what you heard, we hear you, loud and clear. We all get to walk away from the choices you have made and will make. But just because you are angry doesn’t mean there isn’t truth in what was said.

You talk about how important your faith is, and that’s great. But you pick and choose what you want to follow. You scream at us about the evil choice of masturbation, but seem to think pre-marital sex and children out of wedlock is a better choice.

I am sorry that you don’t like what has been said to you. You present yourself as confused and flip flopping on many levels. As has been suggested by many people: make an appointment to speak to a priest.

 

[EasterJoy]

Keep this in mind too folks. How are you gonna heckle someone about not enough money and finances yet demand a wedding that will cost thousands of dollars with a huge party? I had a deacon who said he would marry us for next to nothing. But NooOoo, that’s not the wedding all this shows like “say yes to the dress show on Netflix”.

Have you been to your pre-marital sit-down-and-talk-it-out preparation weekend? I mean something like Engaged Encounter.

There is no “right” answer to your questions, excepting this: you will be a happier man if you do not marry someone who seems greedy* to you*. Yes, that is the minimum, as most of us are far more greedy ourselves than is fitting for the mind of Christ. If you think that it is problematic for your wife-to-be and her family to expect you to indulge her material fantasies (I mean “Say Yes to the Dress” fantasies) regardless of what it does to you to earn that for her, you would be right. That attitude is not going anywhere, so you need to ask yourself whether you have chosen your future wife in a realistic way. You will not change her, and any of us is as likely to get worse as to get better. Can you accept her, love her and even cherish her, just as she is? If not, let her find someone who will. You, meanwhile, need only to seek to live the life that will please God, as this will attract someone who will be naturally like-minded and be yoked equally in marriage with you.

Consider this advice, from St. John Chrysostom, from one of his many homilies on marriage and family life. You would think he was writing for a contemporary audience:
(roca.org/OA/121/121b.htm)

*…A wife should never nag her husband: “You lazy coward, you have no ambition! Look at our relatives and neighbors; they have plenty of money. Their wives have far more than I do.” Let no wife say any such thing; she is her husband’s body, and it is not for her to dictate to her head, but to submit and obey. “But why should she endure poverty?” some will ask. If she is poor, let her console herself by thinking of those who are much poorer still. If she really loved her husband, she would never speak to him like that, but would value having him close to her more than all the gold in the world…Furnish your house neatly and soberly. If the bridegroom shows his wife that he takes no pleasure in worldly excess, and will not stand for it, their marriage will remain free from the evil influences that are so popular these days. Let them shun the immodest music and dancing that are currently so fashionable.

   I am aware that many people think me ridiculous for giving such advice; but if you listen to me, you will understand the advantages of a sober lifestyle more and more as time goes on. You will no longer laugh at me, but will laugh instead at the way people live now like silly children or drunken men. What is our duty, then? Remove from your lives shameful, immodest, and Satanic music, and don't associate with people who enjoy such profligate entertainment. When your bride sees your manner of life, she will say to herself, "Wonderful! What a wise man my husband is! He regards this passing life as nothing; he bas married me to be a good mother for his children and a prudent manager of his household." Will this sort of life be distasteful for a young bride? Only perhaps for the shortest time, and soon she will discover how delightful it is to live this way. She will retain her modesty if you retain yours...*

Notice: this saint does not see modesty as something that governs dress only, but a virtue that touches on all of life.

Do not worry yourself about decisions you made in the past or compare yourself to others. Some are more advanced than you and some are destined to wallow in the mire of bad decisions for a lifetime. Others have different responsibilities than you and for different reasons. That is no matter. Strive to examine your conscience before the Lord, do it often, and even as you accept his infinity mercy also seek to see his tender care for you in wanting nothing but virtuous thoughts and actions to ever touch the hearts in which his Holy Spirit dwells.

You need no more from us. Seek out the counsel of the Lord and of your confessor and the advice of the saints, especially the Doctors of the Church. That is how you will build for yourself a house with a foundation set on solid rock.

 

[EasterJoy]

unfortunately 5k is a church hall and spaghetti for everyone kind of reception. unless you do potluck it’s going to be hard to do much better

Am I the only one who has been to a “cake and coffee” reception, where there was no dinner because the bride and groom elected not to have something so elaborate?

Hosts are only bound to offer what they can afford to offer. They do not have to beggar themselves in order to follow the fashions set by people who are far better off than they are and more in a position to serve their guests more generously.