What's a Protestant? Let's Level Set.

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loozcannon said:
I’m a recent convert, and when I was going through RCIA, this very issue was brought up. Essentially, (exempting the other apostolic churches) if you aren’t Catholic, you’re “Protestant.”

My parish used the term “separated brethren.” that sounds more friendly I think, and doesn’t have the connotations that “protestant” brings to mind.
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I accept that ‘separated brethren’ sounds more friendly, but it still can’t be used as a global term when asking about something that a specific group of non-Catholics believe.

‘What do Protestants believe about baptism?’ is just as impossible to answer as ‘What do the separated brethren believe about baptism?’

While I was mainly Episcopalian before my conversion, I have had experience, in the context of South Africa of: The Old Apostolic Church of Africa, The Church of England in South Africa, the Dutch Reformed church and the Baptist church - and they have very different sets of beliefs about many things.
 
🍿

this is a thread I shall watch closely.
I am in RCIA. Finally. Still take offense when it is implied or inferred anywhere, by anyone, that Protestants are lumped together as one. They/we, Wherever I am now, shouldn’t do this. Also remember, whether it should be the case or not, even within one congregation, there will be differences regarding what that denomination is suppose to believe.And I was the odd duck and so-called “Protestant.”
And I appreciate your 'see what I did?", Conor. Thank you…
Della said:
There’s not really two sides, there’s several sides people are coming from. We simply can’t assume they’re all the same as we’ve experienced. 😉
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We simply can’t assume that all “Protestants” have had the same experience as each other, either…Gotch point, though. Thank you.
Conor7 said:
And, if you’re ignorant of a particular tradition, or don’t know who to address, then admit that.
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Thank you again…
GKC said:
Lots of motley crews out there. Always good to be careful in assumptions. GKC
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True!! 👍
SteveVH said:
If there is one thing I have learned here at CAF it is never to generalize using the word “Protestant”, except in limited circumstances. I find myself correcting many Catholics who begin their sentence with: “Well the Protestants believe…” I have to admit that I was in that camp before coming here. Its just ignorance, not malice.
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I hope the latter is in the minority because for more years than I care to count, it has been vicious in my life. Nasty, unnecessary. And it still wounds.
loozcannon said:
I’m a recent convert, and when I was going through RCIA, this very issue was brought up. Essentially, (exempting the other apostolic churches) if you aren’t Catholic, you’re “Protestant.”

My parish used the term “separated brethren.” that sounds more friendly I think, and doesn’t have the connotations that “protestant” brings to mind.
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My RCIA director, who, I don’t think, is good at his job, said we must meet a few times during the summer break so they don’t lose me to the “Protestants.” I feel strongly that that was inappropriate, even as a joke, which, I don’t think it was meant as such, as he said it with a straight face. He lost me at that point. I have another thought, but it may need to wait…

Separated brethren was refreshing to read in the CCC. I am grateful to that.
 
jericho777 said:
I think while old line Protestants were “protesting” and come from the CC the non denoms over step them completely and go back to more of a first century model and have nothing to protest although they share some similar beliefs.
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The first century model was based upon one organized Church lead by bishops appointed by the Apostles, who in turn ordained priests (prebyters) and deacons. They celebrated Mass and believed in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. The non-denoms are not even close in following a first centruy model.
 
cheezey said:
My RCIA director, who, I don’t think, is good at his job, said we must meet a few times during the summer break so they don’t lose me to the “Protestants.” I feel strongly that that was inappropriate, even as a joke, which, I don’t think it was meant as such, as he said it with a straight face. He lost me at that point. I have another thought, but it may need to wait…
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Unfortunately, there are some bad RCIA teachers. I would just urge you to remember that the fact that people fail, in many ways, does not discount the truth found in the Catholic Church. Don’t be afraid to let the parish priest know what is going on. I’ve seen inadequate teachers on a regular basis but until the priest is informed it will never change. You don’t have to be insulted.
 
SteveVH said:
Unfortunately, there are some bad RCIA teachers. I would just urge you to remember that the fact that people fail, in many ways, does not discount the truth found in the Catholic Church. Don’t be afraid to let the parish priest know what is going on. I’ve seen inadequate teachers on a regular basis but until the priest is informed it will never change. You don’t have to be insulted.
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Thank you. What does one do when the priest insults you? Making many assumptions in the process?
 
cheezey said:
Thank you. What does one do when the priest insults you? Making many assumptions in the process?
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First I would let him know that he offended you. If it is really bad, then I would contact the diocese. In any case, find another parish, not another Church. There are some great teachers and some great priests out there that can enrich your life tremendously.
 
Conor7 said:
It seems in this forum one is often categorized into one of two factions. One is either Protestant or Catholic (OK, one could be Orthodox, but let’s leave them aside for a moment.)

Yet, this categorization becomes very sticky, especially when many of the threads are titled, “Protestants, Why Do You Believe _____?” And, I think, “which Protestants are you asking? I certainly don’t believe that.”

I’m trying to avoid countless regurgitations from Wikipedia’s entry, so tell me how you are using the word “Protestant?”

For me, if you write “Protestant,” and mean Episcopalians, Lutherans, Presbyterians and Methodists, then OK, I’m fine with that. We have similar beliefs and one could lump us together for discussion’s sake.

But if you write “Protestant” and mean Non-denominational, Pentecostal, Evangelical, Charismatic and Fundamentalist, then I take issue. I don’t have much in common with those folks and couldn’t speak on their behalf, nor would I want them to speak on mine.

What are your thoughts? I’d like to hear from Catholics and non-Catholics (see what I did there?) alike.
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I usually would mean Calvinist inclined Protestants, maybe bringing in Wesleyans too. Or I would use “Protestant” when talking about some belief all Protestants have in common. If I would say “Evangelical”, I would mean the Baptists/Pentecostals/etc. Usually but not always I would call Lutherans “Lutherans” and Anglicans “Anglicans” or “Episcopalians”.
 
Conor7 said:
It seems in this forum one is often categorized into one of two factions. One is either Protestant or Catholic (OK, one could be Orthodox, but let’s leave them aside for a moment.)
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Yes, the oversimplification really confuses things.
Conor7 said:
II’m trying to avoid countless regurgitations from Wikipedia’s entry, so tell me how you are using the word “Protestant?”
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I use “Protestant” as an umbrella term that includes any Christian or church that:
  1. subscribes (or would be able to subscribe if they actually did believe in creeds) to the Nicene Creed and
  2. believes in the general principles that the Protestant Reformers advocated:
Justification by faith alone,
Primacy of Scripture,
Priesthood of the believer,
and there may be others that I’m just too lazy to think of.

These principles have been advocated by both liturgical Protestants, like Lutherans, and more free church types like Baptists. And this definition eliminates heretical groups such as the Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses that fall outside of Nicene Christianity.

This is why Protestant can only be used as a general, not specific, label.

I would also say, according to this definition, fundamentalists, evangelicals and Pentecostals would be Protestants the same as mainline Christians. The only segment that wouldn’t qualify would be sects that were obviously heretical, like Oneness Pentecostals since they fall out of Nicene Christianity.
 
SteveVH said:
The first century model was based upon one organized Church lead by bishops appointed by the Apostles, who in turn ordained priests (prebyters) and deacons. They celebrated Mass and believed in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. The non-denoms are not even close in following a first centruy model.
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You are welcome to your opinion but the CC of today hardly resembels the church of the first century. There are even more requirements for salvation now than the first century. In my opinion.
 
I am a Catholic. That doesn’t stop me from being a Protestant.
 
After reading through these posts and replying to some, allow me to make this observation.

Perhaps the problem isn’t with the word “Protestant,” it’s just inadequate. One should not use it when they strictly mean “mainline,” or “liturgical,” or “evangelical” and so on.
 
SteveVH said:
Then why does your religion read: “Church of England”? 😃 If you meet someone on the street and they ask you where the Catholic Church is do you point them to yours?
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I won’t put words in his mouth, but some Anglicans consider themselves Catholic. I sometimes do to varying degrees. Sometimes even go the RC Church down the street if it’s more convenient for me on a particular day. 🤷
 
Conor7 said:
After reading through these posts and replying to some, allow me to make this observation.

Perhaps the problem isn’t with the word “Protestant,” it’s just inadequate. One should not use it when they strictly mean “mainline,” or “liturgical,” or “evangelical” and so on.
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I think it has become inadequate. In the early years of the Reformation “Protestant” was an accurate term. In modern days, as has been said over and over, most non-Catholics are not protesting anything. They, for generations, have grown up in another faith tradition.

The fact that we can no longer use one term to identify non-Catholic Christians is evidence of the many and varied beliefs that have come about as a result of the so-called “reforms”. Disunity abounds and so we are forced to speak specifically of any one faith tradition because they hold very few things in common. What applies to one does not apply to another. It’s sad, really.
 
Well…interesting question. I will say that if it apparently offends people i will make an effort myself to refrain. However, i dont agree that it is being ignorant. The Church was one and called Catholic long before the reformation…am i right? Since the protest, and thus named the “protestant reformation”, those who have faith in our Lord (which we dont deny, nor do we claim they cannot enter heaven) have established churches following this spirit of separation in protest to the Church which existed as Catholic since the Apostles. When asking questions to these churches how should one address them? Because the questions pertain to all those who dont share the same faith as the Catholic Church teaches. Should we say those belonging to the denominations? Do we need to type out all 30,000 denominations? Or maybe we should say non-Catholics? That is something I could definately do. I came from protestant faith. I have protestant friends. I even tell some that they are not neccessarily protestant if they arent protesting something in the Catholic faith. But soon after I tell them that, they will become protestant in heart when they do reject Catholic teaching.
What i dont care for is how the denominations kept me ignorant of the Catholic teachings all of my youth. They will be held accountable for that. But not those who werent taught. I also dont appreciate when options of religion list either Christian or Catholic! This is truly an ignorant thing.
But i dont demonize protestants. If I believe they do not have the full teaching it doesnt make me any greater at following what I preach. Many protestants (non Cats) follow God’s will more than I!

Respectfully,
Michael
 
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