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canadianlife
Guest
I live right beside an Anglican Church, and just curious as to how they celebrate differently from us Catholics. Whats a protestant/anglican mass like? Thanks.
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buzzcut
Guest
You can read the Anglican liturgy here:
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GKC
Guest
That’s Rite II from the 1979 Prayer Book, more like the NO version of an Anglican Mass. Rite 1 is better, but, in this country, in many traditional Anglican churches, the standard is the 1928 Book of Common Prayer. Here’s a source:
justus.anglican.org/resources/bcp/bcp.htm
Have a look at the 1928 Book, under the ECUSA books listed there. It’s similar to a traditional Tridentine Mass.
GKC
Anglicanus Catholicus
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Semper_Fi_1
Guest
Hi. There are no protestant ‘masses’. They have no valid line of Apostolic Succession, don’t hold to our faith and thus don’t have the Eucharist. They have services at most.
God bless,
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GKC
Guest
Semper Fi:
GKC
Anglicanus Catholicus
Anglicans differ in their view on the matter, but what you say is certainly what a RC should affirm.
GKC
Anglicanus Catholicus
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santaro75
Guest
Semper Fi:
But i think the lineage and ordination can not be taken away. The RCC can not control the Holy Spirit, it is God and does what it will.
Is that necessarlily true? I mean they all came from the Catholic faith at some point. That is unless you believe “the RCC giveth and the RCC taketh away”
But i think the lineage and ordination can not be taken away. The RCC can not control the Holy Spirit, it is God and does what it will.
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Contarini
Guest
Santaro,
The Catholic position is that we broke the line of succession by our heretical view of ordination. In other words, in the 16th century we didn’t intend to ordain priests who could offer the Eucharistic Sacrifice, and so in fact we did not ordain such priests (and bishops). Hence no Apostolic Succession. It’s far more complex than that and GKC can fill you in on the details. Obviously we Anglicans disagree, but I can see the logic of this position. Much Anglo-Catholicism (here I disagree with GKC) tries to deny our Protestant heritage. I think the Catholic Church is right in holding us accountable to our own history.
On the other hand, that means that we get to do the same thing when Catholics try to deny their history. Which you also do from time to time. It’s a human failing
Edwin
The Catholic position is that we broke the line of succession by our heretical view of ordination. In other words, in the 16th century we didn’t intend to ordain priests who could offer the Eucharistic Sacrifice, and so in fact we did not ordain such priests (and bishops). Hence no Apostolic Succession. It’s far more complex than that and GKC can fill you in on the details. Obviously we Anglicans disagree, but I can see the logic of this position. Much Anglo-Catholicism (here I disagree with GKC) tries to deny our Protestant heritage. I think the Catholic Church is right in holding us accountable to our own history.
On the other hand, that means that we get to do the same thing when Catholics try to deny their history. Which you also do from time to time. It’s a human failing
Edwin
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GKC
Guest
I wish I had the time to go into it, Contarini. But I’m in a new world, with respect to my responsibilities. I can’t do much that requires thinking these days. All I can really do is repeat that the point in contention is well laid out in STEWARDS OF THE LORD by (RCC priest) Fr.J. J. Hughes (which I happen to be rereading myself) and turns on the concept of the Eucharistic sacrifice, in the 16th century esp. And sure, I can see the logic of Apostolicae Curae. I just think it’s wrong, and was politically flavored, anyway.Santaro,
The Catholic position is that we broke the line of succession by our heretical view of ordination. In other words, in the 16th century we didn’t intend to ordain priests who could offer the Eucharistic Sacrifice, and so in fact we did not ordain such priests (and bishops). Hence no Apostolic Succession. It’s far more complex than that and GKC can fill you in on the details. Obviously we Anglicans disagree, but I can see the logic of this position. Much Anglo-Catholicism (here I disagree with GKC) tries to deny our Protestant heritage. I think the Catholic Church is right in holding us accountable to our own history.
On the other hand, that means that we get to do the same thing when Catholics try to deny their history. Which you also do from time to time. It’s a human failing
Edwin
And no, I don’t deny the Protestant component in Anglicanism. I just deny that Anglicanism is Protestant. It is, as you say, complex.
GKC
Anglicanus Catholicus
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Semper_Fi_1
Guest
If Anglicans are not Protestant, then your doctrines would be the same as Catholics except on the view of the Pope. That would qualify you as schismatics. Anglicans unfortunately do not have an Apostolic Faith. I feel for the ‘Anglo-Catholics’ that are trying to preserve the Catholic Faith within the Anglican Communion, but they’re a small # and they should just come home.
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GKC
Guest
Semper Fi:
GKC, schismatic.
Thanks. I appreciate the thought, sincerely.If Anglicans are not Protestant, then your doctrines would be the same as Catholics except on the view of the Pope. That would qualify you as schismatics. Anglicans unfortunately do not have an Apostolic Faith. I feel for the ‘Anglo-Catholics’ that are trying to preserve the Catholic Faith within the Anglican Communion, but they’re a small # and they should just come home.
GKC, schismatic.
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mercygate
Guest
Semper Fi:
All of the sacramental theology was the same, all of the ecclesiology was the same. I understood and accepted Purgatory and the Marian dogmas.
When I came into RCIA, the director raised an eyebrow and asked: “Is the Catholic Church “catholic” enough for you?”
We called the Eucharist Mass and we had Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament, and Confession, and statues, and votive candles, and Stations of the Cross, and we prayed the Rosary . . . Our pastor was vowed (vowed) to celibacy; my spouse and I were committed to the Catholic position on life issues: abortion, birth control, end-of-life issues.
A lot of Catholics ain’t too happy to see High Church Anglicans coming; we scare 'em.
Darlin’ as a convert from Anglicanism – admitting that there is a breadth of permission in the Anglicanism which ultimately fails the faith – the faith I learned, knew, and loved as an Episcopalian IS the catholic faith in all particulars except for the character of papal primacy.If Anglicans are not Protestant, then your doctrines would be the same as Catholics except on the view of the Pope. That would qualify you as schismatics. Anglicans unfortunately do not have an Apostolic Faith. I feel for the ‘Anglo-Catholics’ that are trying to preserve the Catholic Faith within the Anglican Communion, but they’re a small # and they should just come home.
All of the sacramental theology was the same, all of the ecclesiology was the same. I understood and accepted Purgatory and the Marian dogmas.
When I came into RCIA, the director raised an eyebrow and asked: “Is the Catholic Church “catholic” enough for you?”
We called the Eucharist Mass and we had Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament, and Confession, and statues, and votive candles, and Stations of the Cross, and we prayed the Rosary . . . Our pastor was vowed (vowed) to celibacy; my spouse and I were committed to the Catholic position on life issues: abortion, birth control, end-of-life issues.
A lot of Catholics ain’t too happy to see High Church Anglicans coming; we scare 'em.
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GKC
Guest
mercygate,
Amen. And we have the Angelus at the end of every Mass.
GKC
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Semper_Fi_1
Guest
mercygate,
Yea there are Anglo-Catholics out there, but then there are the ‘Evanglical’ Anglicans. If Anglicanism is the Catholic Faith, how can there be so many varying views in this communion? i.e. there are some Anglicans who don’t accept the doctrine of the Communion of the Saints (in the Catholic view) and they are still considered 100% Anglican and in communion.
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banjo
Guest
This is an interesting statement. Why would any Catholic feel uncomfortable about ‘High Church Anglicans’ coming into the Church?
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usher_mike
Guest
I went to a Luthren service twice and each time I left empty I felt cheated. Are the Anglican clergy ordained by the Catholic pope or bishops? If not they dont have the sacrimental authority to do confession, communion, Holy Orders or last rites that Jesus passed on to his apostles. Without valid Holy Orders it’s all just pretend. For those validly ordained in the Catholic Church who left the church, like Martin Luther, they could do anything but pass on that authority. The authority died with them.
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b_justb
Guest
I wonder why the Anglican Communion hasn’t sought to reunify with the Pope. The history of the birth of the Church of England shows it began under horrid circumstances. Why not rectify it and seek reconciliation with Rome? Does today’s English Monarch really care about being the head of the Church of England? I mean I haven’t emailed her personally and asked or anything. But with politics being as they are today, why hold on to this?
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mercygate
Guest
Because when we come in, we are so VERY Catholic that we threaten the lukewarm cafeteria types who challenge the Magisterium. A good High Church Anglican really is too Catholic for a lot of clergy and for a lot of pro-abortion, pro-women’s ordination pew-warmers.
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mercygate
Guest
usher mike:
Since the promulgation of *Apostolicae curae *in 1896 many Anglican Episcopal Ordinations have included bishops from the Old Catholic and Polish National Catholic lines. Thus many Anglican Orders are likely to be valid, though illicit. When Graham Leonard, the former Anglican Bishop of London was ordained a Catholic Priest, the ordination was conditional. Translation: there was sufficient evidence that Fr. Leonard’s original ordination was valid that to ordain him de novo would have been sacrilege.
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Semper_Fi_1
Guest
So why don’t more High Church Anglicans seek to be Anglican Use?
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mercygate
Guest
Semper Fi:
Many have done just that; that is why Cardinal Ratzinger endorsed the AU.
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