What's an EWTN Mass like?

[Strummer]

Those “bored” looking people may very well be very deep in a meditative state.

Maybe. That is one possibility. So, too is that they may, in fact, be…well, bored. The tell-tale sign would be the eyes which the cameras rarely catch. If the eyes are half-closed or focused on “nowhere” then they’re contemplative. If they are wandering, they’re bored. From the little bit of the Masses I’ve viewed on EWTN (admittedly, not much), they’re definitely bored.

One of the greatest divisions I find among Catholics pertaining to the liturgy is on this point. Those who enjoy a solemn and simple liturgy gravitate towards the contemplative dimension of the Mass. Everything in traditional forms of the Novus Ordo and in the Tridentine is geared in this direction, right down to the music (specifically Gregorian Chant and sacred polyphony), to the lack of eye contact between priest and people, and even among the people. Even moreso - the lack of physical contact.

In non-traditional and more contemporary liturgies, where folkbands play, where there is lots of eye and physical contact, a noise factor, and “busy-ness” in a variety of ways, those who enjoy traditional liturgies have great difficulty with their worship. This, I believe, is because they are hindered in entering the meditative and contemplative dimension as a result of what I call, excess stimulii.

Interesting how you note that “traditionalists” have difficulty with the “contemporary” liturgy but give no mention how a “non-traditionalist” might have similar difficulty at a fully traditional TLM. We are blessed that the Bride of Christ can express herself in various manners so that each in His flock can find the pasture that feeds them best. I can understand how a “traditionalist” might experience some “culture shock” in a contemporary liturgy. However, this “busy-ness” as you so condescendingly refer to such horrendous abuses as eye contact and hand-holding, is what connects the congregation into the Body of Christ. The Mass is not *solely *for the individual but also to strengthen the parish community which is the manifestation of Christ on Earth.

Experiencing it the first time at Assumption Grotto was like having filet mignon.

While I’m glad for you that you found such satisfying nourishment, I’m sure you recognize what hubris it would be to presume that such would feed all exactly as it did yourself.

The meaning of “active participation” is also at the heart of the disagreement between many Catholics on just how lively the liturgy should be.

If you were to see me during the Mass, you would probably think I am bored. But, there is no way you can know just “where” I am at any moment of the Mass based on my outward stillness, silence, and meditative state.

Again, there is a vast difference between “bored” and “meditative” and any reasonably astute person could recognize that. No need to play the victim here. No one is acccusing you of anything as egregious as being bored during Mass.

I’m also not there to entertain anyone else,

This is a defense against an accusation that was never made. Either there is a misunderstanding or you delight in playing the victim.

…nor to focus on anyone else.

Really? So, when the congregation says, “…and I ask…you, my brothers and sisters, to pray for me to the Lord, our God.” you just blow them off since that would be focusing on someone else?

Why spend even one minute focused on anyone else but Our Lord during the liturgy?

How else would so many here find the various liturgical “gnats” to strain at?

 

[anamchara]

Do others affect your ability to worship because they are not lively enough?

This seems like a very taunting question, some might say baiting. I don’t even know where you got this. We are discussing the EWTN Mass and what we all think. I still say the people don’t look thrilled about being there.

Why spend even one minute focused on anyone else but Our Lord during the liturgy?

This is true, so can I assume that if I was sitting next to you and smiled and reached over for your hand during the Lord’s Prayer this would not affect your ability to worship. I mean it might be too lively for you.

 

[Marian_Carroll]

**Ladies & Gentlemen:

A cautionary note…let us not digress into one on one argumentation. Let us stay on the topic – this keeps the thread open, the discussion flowing and the feelings friendly!
**

 

[Traditional_Ang]

Maybe. That is one possibility. So, too is that they may, in fact, be…well, bored. The tell-tale sign would be the eyes which the cameras rarely catch. If the eyes are half-closed or focused on “nowhere” then they’re contemplative. If they are wandering, they’re bored. From the little bit of the Masses I’ve viewed on EWTN (admittedly, not much), they’re definitely bored.

Interesting how you note that “traditionalists” have difficulty with the “contemporary” liturgy but give no mention how a “non-traditionalist” might have similar difficulty at a fully traditional TLM. We are blessed that the Bride of Christ can express herself in various manners so that each in His flock can find the pasture that feeds them best. I can understand how a “traditionalist” might experience some “culture shock” in a contemporary liturgy. However, this “busy-ness” as you so condescendingly refer to such horrendous abuses as eye contact and hand-holding, is what connects the congregation into the Body of Christ. The Mass is not *solely *for the individual but also to strengthen the parish community which is the manifestation of Christ on Earth.
While I’m glad for you that you found such satisfying nourishment, I’m sure you recognize what hubris it would be to presume that such would feed all exactly as it did yourself.

Strummer:

You might want to watch several more of the masses on EWTN before you judge them or the people who are worshipping there.

I watch almost daily, and I’ve noticed several things that I think you’ve probably missed:

The masses are at Sunrise or are very close to it - they’re known as “Rorate Masses”. I have to admit that that I just can’t do them myself. It’s too early in my sleep cycle, and I have the availability of a later Mass at my parish.

The responses of the people are unified and enthusiastic, whether they are in English or in Latin, and the people sing the hymns and the chants, unlike a lot of parishes I’ve gone to.

There are several people who are “regulars” who go there pretty much every day along with the pilgrims. Most of the people who don’t have to go to work will go our to breakfast together after Mass. How many parishes do you know where that’s commonplace?

I’ve found that it’s helps me to concentrate on the Lord if I keep my head down and do my prayers and meditations. Otherwise, I’d be saying “Look at so & so’s make-up, clothes, etc.” I suspect they’re doing the same.

And, Why do you care what they look like? The questions are: Is the Mass reverent? Are they preaching the Gospel? Are they Teaching the Faith? And, Do they provide a service for “shut-ins” and those whose parishes aren’t doing a very good job of preaching the Gospel or Teaching the Faith?

Your Brother in Christ, Michael

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

Marian: Thanks for pointing out where the discussion should be. I hope that discussing detailed differences between an EWTN style of Mass versus what we are accustomed to are not out of bounds.

This seems like a very taunting question, some might say baiting. I don’t even know where you got this. We are discussing the EWTN Mass and what we all think. I still say the people don’t look thrilled about being there.

I regret if you took my question in an offensive way as no offense was intended. I merely raised the question because your comment came across in a way that made it seem if others aren’t expressing a joyful, celebratory, or more active mood during worship, that it somehow affects your mood during worship. Please forgive me if I read more in to what you were saying.

…I assume that if I was sitting next to you and smiled and reached over for your hand during the Lord’s Prayer this would not affect your ability to worship. I mean it might be too lively for you.

Masses like those of EWTN, of my parish and others like it, along with the Tridentine are purposely geared to strip the Mass of anything which may distract us from focus on God during our worship.

When I am at a Mass where a priest asks us to share a sign of peace, I respectfully do so with people to either side of me as Cardinal Arinze suggests. I never refuse a hand in this context. Even the pastor of my own parish - a parish in which he opts out and does not ask us to share a sign of peace - has told us it would be more charitable to accept a hand in this context than to refuse it.

However, at any other time during the Mass, including the Our Father, no one’s hand is yours to take. If a Catholic bows his head during the Our Father, with hands clasped, it would be intrusive to force your will to hold hands upon him, especially when hand holding is not mandated. I have never had a hand nudge me or extended to me when I simply bowed my head and held my hands together, even when at other parishes where most of the congregation held hands. Most people are charitable in this regard, at least by not forcing their hand at someone deep in prayer. Fr. Edward McNamara, Professor of Liturgy at Regina Apostolorum Pontifical Athenaeum says, in part:

The use of this practice during the Our Father could detract and distract from the prayer’s God-directed sense of adoration and petition, as explained in Nos. 2777-2865 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, in favor of a more horizontal and merely human meaning.

** For all of these reasons, no one should have any qualms about not participating in this gesture if disinclined to do so.** They will be simply following the universal customs of the Church, and should not be accused of being a cause of disharmony.

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but in EWTN’s Mass the priest goes right into the Angus Dei after the Rite of Peace, skipping the public part of the gesture, just as my pastor does. Is this the case? I’ll be watching later.

In Jesus through Mary.

 

[anamchara]

I regret if you took my question in an offensive way as no offense was intended. I merely raised the question because your comment came across in a way that made it seem if others aren’t expressing a joyful, celebratory, or more active mood during worship, that it somehow affects your mood during worship. Please forgive me if I read more in to what you were saying.

No problem Diane it’s possible I got a bit defensive and a bit snippy, sorry about that I just don’t like being accused of not focusing on our Lord because I let a smile cross my face. I don’t let others affect my mood to answer your question. I do watch EWTN and as I said there’s aspects of it I really like but it was just an observation about the people there. I didn’t mean to cause such a big discussion about it.

I understand the reasons behind the more traditional Mass I’m not one to force things on someone else. I don’t like making others feel uncomfortable so I normally go with the flow. As far as extending a hand for the Lords prayer, I won’t do it if I sense the person next to me doesn’t want to. The hand holding is one of those things I didn’t grow up with as a Protestant so it took me a while to get used to

I don’t think hand holding or a slight smile can get in the way of a meditative experience in Mass. When I receive our Lord I walk quietly back to my pew kneel and pray, the guitar music and singing actually helps me go deep into prayer. If there’s other noise I’d never hear it because I’m too focused. Our parish is actually quiet anyway before Mass and during, afterward that’s a different story I don’t attend a real large parish actually, it’s only seats about 200.

 

[netmilsmom]

As I said in my post, I don’t expect people to be smiling the whole time net that would be a bit creepy. Just looking like they are at least interested or with a bit more passion. When I’m kneeling during the consecration and I hear the bells, at times a nice smile comes to my face and I close my eyes thanking God. I’ve seen this same smile on faces in Mass, I don’t think it means anyone is having a party.

When people are coming up to receive the Precious Blood and I’m serving I’ve notice some have a more serious expression while others are contently smiling.

It’s a prayerful smile, I don’t see anything wrong with that.

But maybe you just don’t understand how insulting it is to be told that being lost in prayer makes you look like a ZOMBIE. Really.

anamchara:

Now this isn’t to say a person needs to be smiling like Mary Poppins the whole time so please don’t come back with some extreme but come on, most of them look like zombies.

 

[frommi]

But maybe you just don’t understand how insulting it is to be told that being lost in prayer makes you look like a ZOMBIE. Really.

“lost” in prayer is a good way to describe it.

Honestly, sometimes I think it looks like people can’t be bothered to be part of a community and they would be just as happy to be having mass by themselves.

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

“lost” in prayer is a good way to describe it.

Honestly, sometimes I think it looks like people can’t be bothered to be part of a community and they would be just as happy to be having mass by themselves.

Frommi, those people you describe as not wanting to be bothered could very well be better connected to the “community” than you may think and at the very moment they happen to look like “zombies”.

There is another segment of our community that is mystical. That is, those souls who have gone before us - the ones in purgatory who are in need of our prayers, the saints, and the angels - all of whom make up this community along with humans in worship. They too are present at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

Authentic union with the community happens when we worship God with our entire being, and all objects and other people are stripped from our awareness. As each person at Mass detaches from all that is not Him, the greater the union with the full community - physical and mystical.

Look at photos of Mother Theresa in worship. Look at the face of Pope John Paul II during worship - and I do mean after the Offeratory. Pure intensity and focus was seen on his face and his love for the people through the Eucharist was visible. Then again, that is the biggest difference I see now that I mention it, between an EWTN type of Mass and the kind I grew up with…

It was “God through the community” that I encountered in those days. Today, at Assumption Grotto, and when watching Mass on EWTN, I have an opportunity to experience the Community through God. It happens by putting him at the very center of our worship.

The Mass on EWTN is not centered on people. It is God-centered.

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

No problem Diane it’s possible I got a bit defensive and a bit snippy, sorry about that I just don’t like being accused of not focusing on our Lord because I let a smile cross my face…

We’re good.

As far as extending a hand for the Lords prayer, I won’t do it if I sense the person next to me doesn’t want to. The hand holding is one of those things I didn’t grow up with as a Protestant so it took me a while to get used to

It is a fine and proper way to handle it.

I don’t think hand holding or a slight smile can get in the way of a meditative experience in Mass.

But don’t be concerned with others who are not smiling because there is no way we can know just how close one is to God at a given moment in the Mass. Sometimes the smiling person may be very close. Other times, the smiling person may be more distant from Him in the Mass, than the person who appears indifferent.

 

[anamchara]

But maybe you just don’t understand how insulting it is to be told that being lost in prayer makes you look like a ZOMBIE. Really.

I wasn’t talking about you, your taking it too personal. We are talking about what we think about the EWTN Mass and the people there, not you. Lets stay on topic.

We all get lost in prayer, awesome when that happens these people don’t look like that to me. Me last word it on.

 

[Jamie_Burns]

frommi, II find it to be very reverant but somewhat cold and when they cut to the people they look bored, like they are about to fall asleep and half the time thier barely moving thier mouths with the prayers. I don’t see passion in thier eyes or a remote sign of joy.

I attend many “early morning” masses, and whether it is at EWTN, or in Texas, or Colorado, or France, the congregation is usually not as lively early in the morning as they would be after breakfast.

The EWTN Mass is at 7AM, and a good number of the regulars there showed up at 6AM to pray Lauds and the Office of Reading with the brothers.

Considering that Irondale is at the far edge of Birmingham, I bet some of the people in the pews drove 30 to 40 minutes to get there at 6 (I know I have from my hotel in Hoover once). So please don’t take on the congregation for not being lively enough.

 

[anamchara]

Sometimes the smiling person may be very close. Other times, the smiling person may be more distant from Him in the Mass

So thinking about Johnny Depp in Pirates is out? hehehe

 

[anamchara]

I attend many “early morning” masses, and whether it is at EWTN, or in Texas, or Colorado, or France, the congregation is usually not as lively early in the morning as they would be after breakfast.

The EWTN Mass is at 7AM, and a good number of the regulars there showed up at 6AM to pray Lauds and the Office of Reading with the brothers.

Considering that Irondale is at the far edge of Birmingham, I bet some of the people in the pews drove 30 to 40 minutes to get there at 6 (I know I have from my hotel in Hoover once). So please don’t take on the congregation for not being lively enough.

ahh, I didn’t realize this Jamie, thanks I think that explains a bit. I would go if I lived near, I think it would be cool. But you probably would see a slight smile on my face. There are parts of the Mass that lift my heart profoundly.

There is a lovely lady that goes I noticed and she always has her head covered, she looks so content comfortable to be there.

Ya know something else I noticed Jamie is that the pews don’t look very filled, I guess this is due to the early morning.

Edit: I used to attend our early morning daily Mass at our old parish and it was a bit like this now that I think about.

 

[Strummer]

Strummer:

You might want to watch several more of the masses on EWTN before you judge them or the people who are worshipping there.

Which is why I made it a point to mention that I do not have extensive knowledge of them.

I watch almost daily, and I’ve noticed several things that I think you’ve probably missed:

The masses are at Sunrise or are very close to it - they’re known as “Rorate Masses”. I have to admit that that I just can’t do them myself. It’s too early in my sleep cycle, and I have the availability of a later Mass at my parish.

A very important point of which I was not aware. Certainly this could/would affect the physical demeanor of many of those attending. Thank you for enlightening me.