What's Catholicism's Stance on the Black Projects?

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*[n.b.: To begin, I should note that the purpose of this thread is not to speculate on anything classified or experimental, so if that’s what you are expecting, this thread is not for you. -TWM]

I am really curious about the Catholic Church’s stance on black projects, regardless of whoever is conducting the research or the funding. For those who do not know:
A black project is, in the vernacular of the United States and United Kingdom militaries, a highly classified military or defense project, unacknowledged publicly by the government, military personnel, or defense contractors. Examples of U.S. military aircraft developed as black projects include the F-117 Nighthawk stealth attack aircraft and the B-2 Spirit stealth bomber, both of which were highly classified and denied as existing until ready to be announced to the public.
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Now, I have researched the Catechism, and while nowhere is it explicitly mentioned, I think a few relevant paragraphs hit the nail on the head:
2315 The accumulation of arms strikes many as a paradoxically suitable way of deterring potential adversaries from war. They see it as the most effective means of ensuring peace among nations. This method of deterrence gives rise to strong moral reservations. The arms race does not ensure peace. Far from eliminating the causes of war, it risks aggravating them. Spending enormous sums to produce ever new types of weapons impedes efforts to aid needy populations; it thwarts the development of peoples. Over-armament multiplies reasons for conflict and increases the danger of escalation.
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2316 The production and the sale of arms affect the common good of nations and of the international community. Hence public authorities have the right and duty to regulate them. The short-term pursuit of private or collective interests cannot legitimate undertakings that promote violence and conflict among nations and compromise the international juridical order.
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Does anyone have any other relevant Catholic documents like this?

Sincerely,

-TWM
 
If a government keeps things secret, that comes under its own prudential judgment. (And the judgment of a nation under that government.)

Why would the Church have a position on secrecy or privacy itself?
 
The Church recognizes the need for national defense, which includes the keeping of secrets.

Going back to Egypt in Joseph’s time, a defense cannot be maintained if a country’s “nakedness” is seen by others.

ICXC NIKA
 
I don’t think “black projects” are necessarily related to arms production. The SR-71 “Blackbird,” the fastest conventional jet plane, was a black project / “skunk works” product, and was for reconnaissance. Nations are surely entitled to develop defensive measures in secret.
 
Tarpeian_Rock said:
I don’t think “black projects” are necessarily related to arms production. The SR-71 “Blackbird,” the fastest conventional jet plane, was a black project / “skunk works” product, and was for reconnaissance. Nations are surely entitled to develop defensive measures in secret.
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Spyplanes are certainly weapons related. But they are useful to a nation’s duty of defense.

ICXC NIKA
 
Salutations,
I met Patch Adams. HE came for a promotional talk to my place of employment. His Dad was killed in WW II. He is a confirmed pacifist. Saw a fight on a street. Stays dressed in clown suit. Goes between fighters and starts clown tricks. HE survived. Heck, I did that between a crip. and a blood who were fighting in my ED entrance. Stupid ambulancee brought an injured crip. and blood from shoot out to our ED. We have another hospital 5 min away. Anyway. The gangs grouped around. I stood between them w/O clown suit, and told them to calm down, we had to take care of their friends! YADA yada! I survived. But my peers came down on me hard about how stupid that was. God is w me. Save you from long stories.
BUT, MY SON IN LAW, JASON, WAS KILLED IN IRAQ IN 2007. Patch made a statement to me out of the blue, in Ft. BRAGG area. SOMETHING anti-war.
How are we not ANTI-WAR. A soldier would be the first to tell you that.
I said,“YOU COULD NOT HUG HILLER TO STOP HIS INSANITY.” NO ONE COULD…
We need weapons and men of courage to defend our freedoms.
Wisdom, by a God chosen diplomat, at the right time, maybe can stop a war.
But we need our arsenal.
SUPPORT OUR MILITARY. PRAY FOR THEM AND OUR FAMILIES. THE ENEMY IS HERE AND WANTS TO HARM US. WE, AS CIVILIANS, ARE THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE ON THIS WAR ON TERROR.
in Christ’s love
Tweedlealice
 
The position of the Church will accord with the following:

Tobit 12:7 Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)

7 It is good to guard the secret of a king, but gloriously to reveal the works of God. Do good, and evil will not overtake you.
 
Black Projects has nothing to do with devil worship or anything like that. Merely employing very very smart people and not hampering them with annoying bureaucracy.

Read up on Amazon and on Google for “Skunk Works”.

Also YouTube.

Super secret stuff decades ago.

Wayyyy ahead of schedule and generally below budget.

Many projects were completed in six months.

The SR-71 Blackbird took 36 months, but it was made of titanium and flew at 2000 mph.

It was operational for many decades. Until Bill Clinton shut it down in 1995. [Oops, there I go again with politics.]

Interesting reading.
 
youtube.com/watch?v=SSTRXGP0nWM

The Lockheed A-12 was a single seater and flew higher than the two-seater SR-71.

The Russians didn’t need anything like that because they had huge networks of spies and we are an open society. So they could travel freely here.
 
I think the problem is the black budget, this is an amount of money being spent that we are not made aware of, the amount is not even disclosed as far as I know, so being that corruption is so rampant in other areas, its pretty safe to assume corruption exists in the black sector as well, who knows what they are doing or using this money for recently, I mean, look at the most advanced fighter we have right now, turns out its a lemon for the most part?!!

So what has the black sector been doing the past 10-15 yrs? Ive not seen any super duper technology being put to use, NASA is not real successful these days either. Are they just waiting for WW3 to roll all this neat stuff out? lol
 
mikekle said:
I think the problem is the black budget, this is an amount of money being spent that we are not made aware of, the amount is not even disclosed as far as I know, so being that corruption is so rampant in other areas, its pretty safe to assume corruption exists in the black sector as well, who knows what they are doing or using this money for recently, I mean, look at the most advanced fighter we have right now, turns out its a lemon for the most part?!!

So what has the black sector been doing the past 10-15 yrs? Ive not seen any super duper technology being put to use, NASA is not real successful these days either. Are they just waiting for WW3 to roll all this neat stuff out? lol
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Congress monitors it.
 
Monte_RCMS said:
forbes.com/sites/steveblank/2014/11/10/why-corporate-skunk-works-need-to-die/#1e4bc70c7987

What the author is saying is that we ALL need to be innovative. Instead of just a small group.
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We should also take in innovators from outside, instead of concentrating on being “diverse” per se.

Some years back, a Cuban family turned their 1957 Chevy into a boat and headed across. The conversion was reversible; when they got to FL they were going to reconvert and drive to Orlando.

They were picked up and sent back. This country could have used that kind of ingenuity.

ICXC NIKA
 
GEddie said:
We should also take in innovators from outside, instead of concentrating on being “diverse” per se.

Some years back, a Cuban family turned their 1957 Chevy into a boat and headed across. The conversion was reversible; when they got to FL they were going to reconvert and drive to Orlando.

They were picked up and sent back. This country could have used that kind of ingenuity.

ICXC NIKA
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There is all kinds of neat stuff in the classified section of the patent office, you can go online and see all the past patents and inventions that have been classified, thru the ‘invention secrecy act’ there are some that would have put entire industries out of business and saved people lots of money…but they were too good to let out the general public (go figure!)

I posted a link awhile back to a big list from the invention secrecy act, it was very interesting to read thru. Its amazing what some innovative people tinkering can come up with.
 
mikekle said:
There is all kinds of neat stuff in the classified section of the patent office, you can go online and see all the past patents and inventions that have been classified, thru the ‘invention secrecy act’ there are some that would have put entire industries out of business and saved people lots of money…but they were too good to let out the general public (go figure!)

I posted a link awhile back to a big list from the invention secrecy act, it was very interesting to read thru. Its amazing what some innovative people tinkering can come up with.
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Hmmm.

Does classification expire when patents do? (I imagine not)

ICXC NIKA
 
mikekle said:
I think the problem is the black budget, this is an amount of money being spent that we are not made aware of, the amount is not even disclosed as far as I know, so being that corruption is so rampant in other areas, its pretty safe to assume corruption exists in the black sector as well, who knows what they are doing or using this money for recently, I mean, look at the most advanced fighter we have right now, turns out its a lemon for the most part?!!

So what has the black sector been doing the past 10-15 yrs? Ive not seen any super duper technology being put to use, NASA is not real successful these days either. Are they just waiting for WW3 to roll all this neat stuff out? lol
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Yeah, like they are going to “share” with me and you.

If you volunteer at an aviation museum where you learn about technology, and subscribe to/ join AFCEA and get Aviation Week, you may get some idea of what is going on. Although most people would have no idea of what to recognize.

Progress has been remarkable in many aspects open to the public.

But you need to know what you are witnessing.
 
Author Annie Jacobsen has written “The Pentagon’s Brain: An Uncensored History of DARPA, America’s Top Secret Military Research Agency”.

Check it out at Amazon.

Read the reviews.

See if your local library has it or can get it.

See if she has appeared on BookTV.
 
Monte_RCMS said:
Yeah, like they are going to “share” with me and you.

If you volunteer at an aviation museum where you learn about technology, and subscribe to/ join AFCEA and get Aviation Week, you may get some idea of what is going on. Although most people would have no idea of what to recognize.

Progress has been remarkable in many aspects open to the public.

But you need to know what you are witnessing.
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Well, in the past, I know the Govt tested secret aircraft in populated areas and then probably monitored UFO reports, if people see something strange in the sky and it does not match any known aircraft, many will jump to that conclusion.

So if current UFO reports are any indicator, they are experimenting with aircraft capable of operating with no sound, ability to hover in place, (my guess is some kind of electromagnetic or antigravity), and ability to cloak the aircraft to the naked eye.
 
mikekle said:
Well, in the past, I know the Govt tested secret aircraft in populated areas and then probably monitored UFO reports, if people see something strange in the sky and it does not match any known aircraft, many will jump to that conclusion.

So if current UFO reports are any indicator, they are experimenting with aircraft capable of operating with no sound, ability to hover in place, (my guess is some kind of electromagnetic or antigravity), and ability to cloak the aircraft to the naked eye.
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If this country had antigravity, we’d long since have turned Luna into our Death Star and used it to dominate human life. Oh, and asteroidal gold would have eliminated our pesky national debt.

Sometimes secrets just don’t make sense.

ICXC NIKA
 
GEddie said:
If this country had antigravity, we’d long since have turned Luna into our Death Star and used it to dominate human life. Oh, and asteroidal gold would have eliminated our pesky national debt.

Sometimes secrets just don’t make sense.

ICXC NIKA
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I think the name of the game there is deception, to keep normal people and foreign spies from stumbling across purely terrestrial airplanes flying in the skies above. In other words, a red herring to keep curious and nosy people away.

Seriously, if I saw an air vehicle that I have no prior reference to, my first guess is not to call it extraterrestrial. Antigrav or none, my view on so-called ‘UFO reports’ is that they tend to be skewed by the perceptions of eyewitnesses.
 
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