Whats it like to be born again?

[jmcrae]

When I was a teenager I was led to believe that I must be born again and I was led in a pray to save me. I was told now I was part of God’s plan and I had a friend in Jesus. Nothing in my life changed and I found the experience empty. So I came back to the Catholic Church.

Welcome home!

There is nothing quite like a good Confession after a long absence, is there? :extrahappy:

 

[Cathoholic]

tjones80.

I’d like to echo that of jmcrae, . . . . “Welcome home!”

 

[Cathoholic]

Another Scriptural example of being born again or being born of water and the Spirit.

HEBREWS 10:19-22 19 Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the sanctuary by the blood of Jesus, 20 by the new and living way which he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.​

 

[crochet_lady]

All too often – a person who ‘comes forward’ is Not questioned as to Why they’ve ‘come forward’. The pastor gives the invitation at the end of the service and without really asking the person / talking with them to find out More about their personal situation, they are simply told to say a prayer. Or repeat a prayer. If a person doesn’t understand enough to talk to God himself – then he’s not ready at that time to accept Christ as personal Savior. And THAT is what happens – the person ends up leaving just as confused as when he Came to the church. People get the idea that somehow - entering a church - will Do ‘something’ for the person. And when nothing ‘changes’ for the person – they assume the ‘church’ is wrong and try some other ‘church’.

 

[Cathoholic]

All too often – a person who ‘comes forward’ is Not questioned as to Why they’ve ‘come forward’.

Another excellent point crochet lady.

“When I ask people to come forward and a thousand people respond, I know in my heart they’re not all converted.”
— Billy Graham (From Time Magazine, “God’s Billy Pulpit,” 11/15/93)

 

[Della]

All too often – a person who ‘comes forward’ is Not questioned as to Why they’ve ‘come forward’. The pastor gives the invitation at the end of the service and without really asking the person / talking with them to find out More about their personal situation, they are simply told to say a prayer. Or repeat a prayer. If a person doesn’t understand enough to talk to God himself – then he’s not ready at that time to accept Christ as personal Savior. And THAT is what happens – the person ends up leaving just as confused as when he Came to the church. People get the idea that somehow - entering a church - will Do ‘something’ for the person. And when nothing ‘changes’ for the person – they assume the ‘church’ is wrong and try some other ‘church’.

This is why in the early Church people weren’t baptized or confirmed until they’d been through 2 - 3 years of formation in the faith. Making a one time, perhaps emotional decision, is not conversion, is it? In order for faith to be real and lasting it needs to be nurtured and have solid reasons for the person holding it.

In the Catholic Church we have discernment processes before all our sacraments are administered. There are preparation classes for parents who are seeking baptism for their babies. There’s RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults) for adults seeking baptism or for those coming from another faith community to be reconciled to the Church. There are “Cana” classes for those seeking marriage. Our priests and deacons go through a lengthy formation process that lasts years, etc. This is so the people seeking these sacraments know what they are, what they will do/not do, and why they are seeking them. Without full knowledge and consent no one is going to hold onto any faith no matter how true or false.

 

[tominator2]

Since we’re talking about baptism:

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you

Seems pretty clear that baptism was God’s means of cleansing us of our sin from early on.

 

[FathersKnowBest]

Born of water and the spirit: Notice that Jesus isn’t talking about two events such has been postulated here. He’s not saying: Born of water and then later born of spirit.
He’s talking about one event, such as is seen throughout scripture: at creation, there was present water and the Spirit.

One other think I’d like to point out regarding immersion or pouring (we don’t sprinkle, and contrary to an earlier post, neither do Lutherans), is that one of the very earliest Christian documents we have, probably written earlier than most of the NT, says that either is acceptable.

The Didache was written as an “instruction manual” on how to be a Christian in the time of the Apostles, and claims to be at least a reflection of the Apostles’ teachings, if not outright written by them.

Chapter 7. Concerning Baptism.
And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. But if you have no living water, baptize into other water; and if you cannot do so in cold water, do so in warm. But if you have neither, pour out water three times upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whoever else can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.

I definitely believe that immersion is superior symbolically; however, since baptism is more than symbolic, either is acceptable sacramentally.

 

[Paul75]

Jesus said about 10 things that we must do or believe if we are to be saved. But one of the problems about reading just the bible is that only one or the other verse is selected and presented as the ONLY thing necessary. So sometimes picking out one little verse will then ignore the other 9 things that he also said were necessary…

Hello, Fred,
*
When Jesus says, “Unless you have the faith of a child you cannot see the Kingdom…,” I take him to mean that saving faith does not require some kind of complicated 9-step process that only a legalistic adult could navigate. As we see in Acts, it has to be as simple as one recognizing his sinfulness and submitting to the Lordship of Jesus. Recall how the apostle Peter was surprised when the Holy Spirit fell on the people mid-sermon… No pre-requisite water baptism (although, yes, he did proceed to baptize them).

I believe at that point they were indeed saved/born again. But they were “saved to serve,” and so needed to grow in Christ-likeness with the help of the Holy Spirit which now indwelt their “saved” spirits/hearts. That’s where your 8 or 9 additional “things” would come into play.

Most Catholics see salvation as an ongoing process, right? Having heard both sides of the story, I would say your separated brethren look at it more as the initial spiritual event that begins that process, as expressed in this saying,
"I have been saved/reborn : The Holy Spirit now indwells my spirit (Jesus is in my heart)…
"I am being saved/sanctified : My soul/mind is being perfected as I obey the Spirit’s leading…
“I will be saved : My physical body will be like Jesus’ at the resurrection.”

For instance, “Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you cannot have life in you.”
Yet, this verse is conveniently overlooked or changed in meaning to suit one’s taste’s.
.

Here you would have to admit that a man coming in off the street, who had no knowledge of transubstantiation, would not be “spiritually vivified” by ingesting a consecrated host. No, there has to be the faith that by ingesting the host he is willingly receiving Jesus’ spirit into his heart to begin His saving/healing work. As Jesus said in John 6, “It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is of no avail.”

Or “unless a man be born again of water and the spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” Yet some look past this verse as non important and substitute their own verse as,
“I accept Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and saviour”.

Interesting that Jesus expressed disappointment when Nicodemus, a learned pharisee, didn’t know that, “unless a man be born again of water and the spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” I find that interesting… How would Nicodemus have known to do the 9 things you say are necessary to be saved? At that point, what if Nicodemus had asked Jesus, “What must I DO right now to be saved?” Could Jesus have answered in any other way than Peter did to the jailer, “Believe in the Lord, Jesus Christ and you will be saved”?
So faith comes first… Obedience follows.

Shalom!*

 

[hope_7]

I have been reading some of what has been posted. If I understand it correctly it is that those that are catholic believe that being born again is the same as being baptised…

I cannot accept this because it is not true Water baptism and being born again are not the same thing .

If a person believes that water baptism is the same as being born again then they have never experianced what it truly means to be born again.
A person that is born again knows the differance.

 

[Cathoholic]

Hi Paul75.

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums.

Della. You said:

Without full knowledge and consent no one is going to hold onto any faith no matter how true or false.

Insightful comment.

“A Man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.” — Benjamin Franklin

Paul75. You stated in post 107:

When Jesus says, “Unless you have the faith of a child you cannot see the Kingdom…,” I take him to mean . . .

I Googled what you said (because I’ve read the Gospels many times and didn’t recall that quote anywhere in the Bible) and wasn’t sure which verse you were alluding to. Search came up virtually empty (three hits, one was yours).

It is probably not John 3:5, since it sounds like you do not affirm that verse.
JOHN 3:5 5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.And it probably isn’t Matthew 18:3 because that talks about something Jesus tells them to do.
MATTHEW 18:3 (NIV) And he said: "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.Which verse were you talking about in post 107?

hope 7. You said,

If I understand it correctly it is that those that are catholic believe that being born again is the same as being baptised…

I cannot accept this because it is not true Water baptism and being born again are not the same thing .

That’s OK if you cannot accept this as far as reading this thread. That is between you and God.

Do you believe being “born again” is being “born of water and the spirit” hope 7?

If not what is it?

hope 7. You also said,

If a person believes that water baptism is the same as being born again then they have never experianced what it truly means to be born again.

If a person praises God would you say they are “born again” or can non born-again people give God such praise?

How about if they praise God highly or even perfectly? Would you say those people are “born-again” or non born-again individuals?

 

[tominator2]

…
I cannot accept this because it is not true Water baptism and being born again are not the same thing .

If a person believes that water baptism is the same as being born again then they have never experianced what it truly means to be born again.
A person that is born again knows the differance.

So, what you believe is more important than what the Bible says? None of the quotations which others have posted in defense of the notion that baptism is not necessary to salvation have made the case: they do not preclude a baptismal requirement by omission. But the other verses which state the requirement are also in the Bible, God’s Word and indicate the normative requirement that baptism is required for salvation.

Does God sometimes work outside of the normative means? Of course, but who could count on that ? Seems a little like gambling for one’s eternal salvation. Or worse, it seems to be presuming on the mercy of God. A person who “knows the difference” may feel they have found the answer. But without a solid understanding of what the Bible says about this in all the different passages that deal with the subject and how they relate to each other, it’s hard to see what one “knows” about salvation - such salvation seems subjective, as though one could assume salvation on one’s own terms, not on God’s.

We can’t just throw out the Bible verses with which we disagree. That makes it Our Word, not God’s.

May God bless you.

 

[michaelhager]

Why would people in heaven be praying for Us? We would be praying for those we know - our loved ones that are here on earth. For people we know who are sick or having problems or thanking God for something.

Why then should we be praying for typhoon victims in the Philippines? People we do not know? In the same light that we pray for those victims, the saints in heaven would certainly pray for us or intercede on our behalf. Do you not intercede when someone says “Please prey for me”? Do you tell them do it yourself, I cannot intercede? Of course not. You pray for them and for their concerns when you have your moment of prayer, perhaps on the spot, perhaps later in your bedroom. Who better to pray for you than someone who is already in the presence of God, known to have led a life, good enough to bring them to heaven?

I am an insignificant sinner. I certainly need all the people I can get to help pray to God that I can end up in His presence someday too.

Michael Hager

 

[jmcrae]

I have been reading some of what has been posted. If I understand it correctly it is that those that are catholic believe that being born again is the same as being baptised.

That’s what Jesus said it was, in John chapter 3. I really don’t think we are free to disagree with Him, or improve on His ideas, or decide that He was speaking in figures of speech when what He plainly said goes against what we wish were true.

 

[hope_7]

I did not say that baptism is not necessary I said that being born again and water baptism are not the same thing. You can be baptised and still not be born again . You can be born again and have not been baptised as well. In most of the posts in this topic I have seen very few even describe what it is like or what happens when one is born again.

This is the question that was originally asked

(Originally Posted by imadesomanymist
Jesus says we must be born again what exactly does it fell like to be born again .}

Can any of you describe this from their own personal experiance ?

Can any of you tell what happened to them when they were born again ?

This is an extreamly important thing it is not something to be discounted.

I would love to read in here how some of you were born again.

Please understand that I am not talking about baptism, besides many catholics cant remember this anyway because they were infants when they were baptised.

I would suggest that this experiance of being born again would be explored instead of being disounted.

 

[fhansen]

So why do you say baptism is necessary?

 

[tominator2]

I did not say that baptism is not necessary I said that being born again and water baptism are not the same thing. You can be baptised and still not be born again . You can be born again and have not been baptised as well. In most of the posts in this topic I have seen very few even describe what it is like or what happens when one is born again.

This is the question that was originally asked

(Originally Posted by imadesomanymist
Jesus says we must be born again what exactly does it fell like to be born again .}

Can any of you describe this from their own personal experiance ?

Can any of you tell what happened to them when they were born again ?

This is an extreamly important thing it is not something to be discounted.

I would love to read in here how some of you were born again.

Please understand that I am not talking about baptism, besides many catholics cant remember this anyway because they were infants when they were baptised.

I would suggest that this experiance of being born again would be explored instead of being disounted.

Where does it say in the Bible that the experience itself of being born again is important? Sorry, but while God can work through our emotions He often doesn’t. Emotions are generally an unreliable indicator of spiritual realities. If we had to rely on emotion to determine our spiritual state, none of us could be sure of anything.

Paul talks about dying to sin in baptism:

Romans 6:2 How can we who died to sin yet live in it?b 3Or are you unaware that we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?c 4We were indeed buried with him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might live in newness of life.

If that’s not being born again, I don’t know what is.

May God bless you.

 

[crochet_lady]

tominator 2

Your question about ‘being born again’ yes - Very important.

The individual persons’ experience of being born again need not be emotional at all. When the Holy Spirit convicts a person / ‘touches’ a person’s heart with the knowledge of their personal need – it Could be emotional because some of us Are more emotional than others and whatever life is being led – there Could be a lot of sorrow felt by the person. Or a lot of Joy felt by the person and expressed emotionally.

But-- Romans 5:8 "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
vs 1 "Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Christ has Already Done the ‘work’ / justified us on the cross through His blood.

So - Romans 10:9 & 10 " that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
“For with the Heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.”
Vs 13 “For whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

In the book of John - chapter 3 – Nicodemus is asking about ‘being born again’. He thought it meant - being born from your mother Again. But That experience only happens once. And That is the being ‘born of the water’. The ‘bag of water’ being broken so a person Can be physically born.
But Spiritual ‘birth’ is different. A person is physically alive but Spiritually Dead, Until the Holy Spirit comes to indwell the person AFTER they have believed in their heart that Jesus is the Christ who died on the cross for Them and rose again for Them.
You’re telling God through Jesus Christ that you believe and thank Him for His salvation. Acknowledging that Nothing more / else is needed.
At this time / moment / the Holy Spirit comes to indwell you. The Spiritual birth has taken place. And a ‘baptism’ Does take place. But it’s a Spiritual baptism – your soul unites with all the Other ‘souls’ and is united with them.
And Then / After that is when a ‘born-again’ person / believer/ CAN be physically baptised – immersed in water – by someone – to show what has already happened Inwardly. Because the person is Now a ‘new person’ In Christ. When the person is eased back into the body of water – they are symbolically ‘dying’ to their Old life and when they are being raised back up out of the water – it is symbolic of Christ rising bodily from the dead so that a person CAN have a ‘new’ life in / through Christ.
One of the Aspects of our New life – is the desire the Holy Spirit gives the person To read God’s Word / better able to understand what they are reading / the Desire to do Good things for God. As a person reads / studies God’s Word there Will be Spiritual growth – there Will be questions - and the more a person Seeks from God / the Holy Spirit – the more understanding there will be.
But That does NOT mean that a born-again person is going to understand Every single verse / chapter in Scripture.

Personally – I grew up in a Baptist church. But I live in a small Catholic community – housing availability. It was in Iowa. Very Protestant area. As our community grew – people from our church that lived in the outlying areas, felt led to start Bible study groups and that led to the forming of 4 other Baptist churches. And as the community continued to grow - so did all those churches.
We had a Wonderful Bible teaching pastor and Sunday School teachers. So I had a Great HEAD knowledge of Scripture / salvation, but not a HEART acceptence. of it – we had summer camps for the young people. So we all started at the Jr level to go to week-long camps. Great times. There were about 8 kids to a cabin and an adult counselor in each one. Their job was to ‘counsel us’ find out where we were spiritually and have us share with the other cabin kids. Well - I figured that at least a Couple of those kids were Not born-again so I wouldn’t be the Only one ‘not saved’. The others’ would say they were saved at home by their parents or in Sunday School, so I had my 'story ’ all figured out. But time was out that one evening - so I didn’t have to tell my little white lie. The next day – the counselor said that One of the girls had talked to her and Had accepted Christ as her Savior the next day. And I thought ’ hmmm, I Could do that too. But at time time, I didn’t.
Then the counselor asked if any of us needed to be baptized or already Had been. So - that next Sunday morning after church service – she had us all go forward for baptism. Well – a while after That - most of us Did get Water baptized during the church service – as was usual in the church. So That was done. But the next year I didn’t go to camp cause my older sister was getting married and I needed to be home to take part in it.
The kids came home from that camp and talked about how they’d been challenged about being Secure in their salvation. If any of them had Questioned their salvation. And several of them Had. And they were told that they Could be Sure they were Really born-again – just talk to God about it - where Ever they were. Just tell Him about your doubt and insecurity and If they hadn’t actually accepted Christ, then they wanted to Now. And they Did. And Now they Knew they were – they had personal assurance of their own salvation – and they requested to be Re-baptized.

 

[crochet_lady]

Part 2

I was challenged by those girls and realized that I was in the same situation. So – right there I talked to God about My situation and accepted Him as My personal Savior.
I realized My need to be baptized Again – to show that Now I really Was born-again.
So a few weeks or so later – several of us Were water baptized – THAT baptism was demonstrating what really Had taken place in side my soul. And THAT was important.

The emotionalism – it’s a big deal in some churches - and dangerous. Some people Are naturally ‘emotional’ which is fine – some of us are NOT – that’s Me.

Some people are very remorseful for their past sinfulness and show it – they accept Christ’s forgiveness and become a ‘new person’ in Christ. Others’ are equally remorseful but Don’t show it outwardly but Do accept Inwardly. They Both are born-again.
Other’s are deeply remorseful, but feel that their personal sins are Too great for God’ forgiveness and Won’t. Other’s feel they are pretty Good people and Won’t because they don’t Feel the need. So our emotions…?

 

[crochet_lady]

Hope 7

You’re right – a person CAN be born-again and Not be baptised as well as the other way around. It’s the Heart decision / belief that IS necessary for salvation.

You’re New - so am I – relatively.

There are Two baptisms.-- One is spiritual. At the moment of our heart belief – the Holy Spirit comes to indwell the person – That is Spiritual baptism – That involves the joining of our ‘soul’ with all the other ‘souls’ that are united together in Christ / the universal body of Christ. That ‘sealing’ of the Holy Spirit Keeps us until we are really With Christ for eternity.

The Other baptism is the physical baptism that we can observe – That is showing physically by our body being immersed in a body of water. Showing that we already believe that Christ died on the cross for our sins – we are physically lowered into a body of water – then we are physically raised back Up showing we believe that Christ rose from the dead – giving us New Life / in and through Him.

Physical baptism IS important – but is Not Part of the salvation process. And I already know that LOTS of people Don’t agree.