Whats it like to be born again?

[Cathoholic]

Being “born again” is being “born of water and the Spirit”. Jesus says so.

Jesus tells Nicodemus he needs to be “born again” (also translated as “born anew” or “born from above”). Nicodemus was confused (HOW do I do THAT?). Jesus then tells Nicodemus the answer. Jesus tells him he must be “born of water and the Spirit”.

JOHN 3:3-4a, 5, 22 3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, "How can a man be born when he is old? . . . . 5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. . . . 22 After this Jesus and his disciples went into the land of Judea; there he remained with them and baptized.

michaelhager.

Thanks for sharing your feelings in post 215. And I don’t think anyone here wants to discount your emotions.

And when you discuss (Anabaptist) Protestants (such as “Baptists”) who have emotional experiences with religious events in their lives they too should not be ignored.

And I would even go so far as to admit that maybe there are in some way . . . . . channels of some sort of authentic graces from God with these experiences. Perhaps even more than a proverbial shoulder tap.

But not the justifying grace that comes through obeying Jesus through Baptism.

I don’t have enough faith in my (or anyone else’s) emotions for that. But I DO put faith in Jesus Christ and what HE said.

And when Quakers, Unitarians, Salvation Army religions (or others) are even critical of say Baptists (who deny justifying grace through Baptism, but DO get Baptized anyway to “show the community”) and these Quakers or whoever, REJECT ALL Baptisms including that of the Baptists on account of what they personally FEEL, they should not be neglected either.

And when pagans or other non-Christians have emotional religious pagan experiences I don’t think those ought to be disregarded either (see post 212). (The issue is, HOW should we regard these “experiences”)

Nor am I saying we should have apathy toward atheists who have emotional convictions that are associated with their quasi-religious ceremonies (the real issue again is, HOW should we regard these “experiences”).

Maybe God is using emotions to call these people to something higher.

But if you let yourself remain uncatechized about what really being “born again” is, then . . . .

• You IGNORE what Jesus taught about being “born again”.
• You propagate the error of your own personal definition (over and above what Jesus taught us) of what being “born again” really is. Some people call this “faith”. I call it “lack of faith”.
• You also may HINDER someone who really WANTS to do the will of Jesus and be “born again” the way JESUS WANTS them to be “born again”. But now they won’t bother to be Baptized at all (because after all, why should I get Baptized? michaelhager told me my emotional experience WAS being “born again”).

Do you see this?

Continued . . . .

 

[Cathoholic]

Here is what you also have said michaelhager.

I cannot now even imagine the idea of being born again only once.

Now I think you mean this in the sense of building upon your one and only Baptism and not in the sense of actual Baptisms.

But someone else might take (“I cannot now even imagine the idea of being born again only once”) to mean you can be “born again” over and over.

And that obscures (not clarifies) what really being “born again” is.

The Church as authentic custodians of God’s word takes this very seriously.

If you go to Mass (I see you listed yourself as Catholic) you profess every Sunday: “ . . . . I acknowledge ONE BAPTISM for the remission of sins. . . .” during the Creed.

I assume you BELIEVE what you profess during the Creed at Mass weekly.

Having this as proper doctrine helps us to maintain unity michaelhager.

EPHESIANS 4:3-5 . . . 3 eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all.

To use “born again” any other way changes the definition to a man-made definition instead of what Jesus and His inspired Apostles told us if we begin saying things like being “born again” a multitude of differing ways.

Now I think I know what you mean (perhaps, “multiple encounters with God’s grace that were made manifest to me interiorly” or something along this line) and you probably DO affirm ONE Baptism michaelhager.

But tossing around Sacred terminology like this in inexact ways, can have consequences for others, even if you know what you really mean in your own mind.

Or (Heaven forbid) purposefully re-defining what being “born again” is has potential catastrophic spiritual consequences.

I would look to Jesus and His Apostles and His Church (the mystical “Body” of Christ that St. Paul is talking about above in Ephesians 4:4) for how to define being “born again” instead of men that came along in the 1500’s and 1600’s DENYING these teachings.

These are traditions of men that nullify the commandments of God michaelhager.

Men like the Zwickau “prophets” (principally Nicholas Storch, Thomas Dreschel and Markus Stübner) as well as the politician Thomas Müntzer (1489-1525) in Germany, and “the Swiss Brethren” from 1525 (Felix Manz, Conrad Grebel, and ex-Catholic Priest George Blaurock) in Switzerland. Also ex-Catholic Priest Menno Simons (inventor of the Mennonite religion), or ex-Anglican Priest John Smyth (inventor of the “Baptist” religion) who didn’t think anyone was worthy of Baptizing him so he Baptized himself (you can read about it in Christianity Today here)! That’s why even fellow Anabaptists called Smyth a “Se-Baptist” (short for “Self-Baptist”).

Smyth was even excommunicated from the religion he invented for getting too chummy with the Mennonites.

These are the traditions of men you are flirting with, that deviate from the Apostolic faith.

Believing In Jesus’ Words Takes Grace–It Is Not Something We Can Accomplish Merely On Our Own

We cannot believe these words of Jesus (such as you must be “born of water and the Spirit”) without a special gift and grace from God.

Yes you should study and try to understand it as much as humanly possible (Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and MIND") but realize this needs to be elevated by grace too.

You also said michaelhager,

I am blessed and honored and often moved to tears to be able to accept Jesus over and over again.

And I am glad of your blessings honors and even tears. And again, I don’t want to discount any of those things. But none of this is being “born again”.

You need to be very careful with bantering about terms like “being born again” in something you (or someone else) defines based upon their feelings, emotions, and personal sentiments and NOT upon what Jesus said, as these are very serious issues.

And I think God has chosen you michaelhager for something very special and possibly that is WHY you have those wonderful encounters with Jesus. I can tell from your post and what you have experienced that Jesus loves you very much.

Keep the faith brother. Your very personal post was an inspiration to me.

God bless.

Cathoholic

 

[daler]

Much has been said, quoted and documented above to justify the term scripturally so I will not attempt to justify my words with research, there is enough here that has been interpreted in several different ways, depending upon the writer…

At a protestant service, when the pastor calls for those who wish to accept Christ into their lives to come forward and acknowledge Him as their personal savoir, that person undergoes a fundamental change in their entire being, an acceptance of someone else in control of his life, a trust that our Lord Jesus Christ will love and care for them for the rest of their lives. The person is not one molecule different physically than when they walked in the door, but there is a change that we all agree is life shattering and wonderful.

We allow that they have been “Born again”. Sometimes baptism follows for the un-baptized at which point some might say he has been born yet again.

I was born again in 1962. I couldn’t say now if it was when I consented to baptism and the acceptance of Jesus, or at my baptism itself. But I will tell you with certainty that I was born yet again, when I accepted confirmation at Easter Vigil in 2010 as a Catholic. And I am born again each and every time I accept that little wafer, and the chalice to receive the blessed sacrament of the Eucharist.

I cannot now even imagine the idea of being born again only once. I am blessed and honored and often moved to tears to be able to accept Jesus over and over again.

Michael Hager

Michael,
. Very good description. I can also tell you that I had that experience coming out of a Sacred Sweat Lodge ceremony among the Sioux, more than once. I felt it in Church, too. So I’m with you on that.

. Much depends upon how we surrender ourselves to that Spirit, and accept its Light. Not just one time, but with daily renewal, right? Too some it comes in association with the Eucharist. In others I think it comes where “two or three gather” and make mention of Him, but again, I’ve felt that very strongly in the context of other cultural models and rituals.

. As a Baha’i (since 1980), I can say that the strongest I ever felt the Holy Spirit was kneeling at the Shrine of Baha’u’llah in Israel, but that seems to become a challenge for people who have not had “all of the above” or whatever portion, in whatever specific way, that they associate with such a strong experience.

. In other words, if as a Christian, I recounted my experience as you have, and have not had the same thing happen in another context, I would probably deny another’s experience, out of ignorance or some kind of prejudice. So there is a test of pride in describing this and being open to the possibility that God supplies Holy Water from another Well. Its always the same water underground, but it bubbles up here and there, where ever God wills it to be.

. God bless, and keep on prayin’ for rain…

 

[michaelhager]

Cathoholic…

Thanks for your detailed replies, numbers 215 and 216 to my post, Number 217. I’m a fairly new Catholic, just barely four years old really, so I haven’t had a lifetime to study all the nuances of my new faith. I’m committed to it, but I also come from a strong Protestant background, say Presbyterian/Baptist and in my experience, they in general tend to believe that you are “Born again” only once and for life, pretty much regardless of how you behave. The logic being that once you have accepted Jesus and Christianity, you will not desire to misbehave and therefore your salvation is complete.

I’m fully aware that for me, it doesn’t work that way and I have to make an effort daily to remain saved. My answer to the question “Have you been saved?” was always an unequivocal “Yes” until I became Catholic. Now I must say, “I hope so, I work at it all the time.”

I accept your argument that scripturally and dogmatically, a person is only born again once. Ok, was that through infant baptism? A sacrament that the child has no concept of at the time? Jesus asked everyone he spoke with to make a personal decision to choose His path to eternal life. Is that infant Born Again? Or does that happen at first communion, or his free will confirmation?

I accepted Jesus as a youth. (Many years ago) I can’t tell you now if I was truly sincere or if I was following the lead of others who were professing at the same time. I was a kid. My faith in Jesus became stronger as I matured and I was “Born again” again as an adult at a family church retreat. I have drifted through periods of strong faith and some sadly slack times when I let life get in the way of my faith.

I was finally reborn one last time at my Catholic Confirmation when I accepted the beliefs of His “One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.” Yes I believe what I recite at every mass including one baptism (Even though my Deacon nearly made me get baptized a second time because I couldn’t supply him with my baptismal certificate from fifty plus years ago.)

I will concede that perhaps I must only be reborn once, but I am a sinner. I need to reaffirm my beliefs constantly. I slip, I repent, confess, I do my penance and I receive. Therefore, each time I go through this process, I am reborn to the grace and love of Jesus.

We can talk about semantics, is this true rebirth according to the church? Apparently not. But for me, I feel a true rebirth of my relationship with Jesus every time I receive and with every act of Christianity I perform.

daler…

I’ll freely admit that anyone can have mystical emotional experiences at any given time outside of a relationship with God. (The God we talk about here), even with other gods. I hold no judgment of anyone or their personal beliefs. But I have found my greatest joy in serving the one true God of the Universe and His only son, Jesus Christ through His original true church. This is not an argument, simply a statement of my personal beliefs.

Cathoholic…

Be assured that I do not pretend to create my own version of the teachings of the Church. Perhaps I don’t fully understand them all, but one of the reasons I converted was because I have never had a question about the Catholic Church that was not logically and intelligently answered by the Magisterium or the Catechism, based on and backed by Holy Scripture.

I will in the future refrain from saying I am constantly Born again, without reference to your posts top clarify the issues.

And yes, Jesus has a plan for me… with a bit of humility I will refrain from listing the ministries I am involved in at my parish, but suffice it to say that each time I participate in one of them, I am fully aware that God brought me here.

One last thing, the original post was titled “whats it like to be born again?” My original post, 215 was simply my personal answer to that question.

Michael Hager

Thanks, and God Bless…

Michael Hager

 

[daler]

And yes, Jesus has a plan for me… with a bit of humility I will refrain from listing the ministries I am involved in at my parish, but suffice it to say that each time I participate in one of them, I am fully aware that God brought me here.

One last thing, the original post was titled “whats it like to be born again?” My original post, 215 was simply my personal answer to that question.

Michael Hager

Michael,
. It sounds like you are on a good path. Keep your spiritual antenna up and your radio tuned, or maybe turn the dial and “Hear what the Spirit is saying to the Churches.”

. In the old days, the Indians would put their ear to the ground and could hear the buffalo coming…

.

 

[jmcrae]

Cathoholic…

Thanks for your detailed replies, numbers 215 and 216 to my post, Number 217. I’m a fairly new Catholic, just barely four years old really, so I haven’t had a lifetime to study all the nuances of my new faith. I’m committed to it, but I also come from a strong Protestant background, say Presbyterian/Baptist and in my experience, they in general tend to believe that you are “Born again” only once and for life, pretty much regardless of how you behave. The logic being that once you have accepted Jesus and Christianity, you will not desire to misbehave and therefore your salvation is complete.

“Born again” does not mean that your salvation is completed, any more than being born in the flesh means you have matured to adulthood.

Rather, it means that you have begun to be related to Jesus, and can call God your Father. This is what happens in the waters of Baptism.

We have the Sacrament of Reconciliation for the times we stumble.

I accept your argument that scripturally and dogmatically, a person is only born again once. Ok, was that through infant baptism? A sacrament that the child has no concept of at the time? Jesus asked everyone he spoke with to make a personal decision to choose His path to eternal life. Is that infant Born Again? Or does that happen at first communion, or his free will confirmation?

Baptism is a Sacrament, which means that it does the thing that it promises - brings one to new birth in the Holy Spirit and makes him a child of God.

Everything else is part of the process of maturing in faith and being conformed into the image of Christ.

 

[Cathoholic]

As jmcrae stated: Being born again is just the beginning. Just like being “born” is a beginning of sorts.

JOHN 3:3-4a, 5, 22 3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, "How can a man be born when he is old? . . . . 5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. . . . 22 After this Jesus and his disciples went into the land of Judea; there he remained with them and baptized.

Being born “anothen” or “again” also means being born “from above”.

JOHN 3:3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born anew (“anothen”), he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

The Greek word “anothen” has a double meaning: “Again” (“anew”) AND “from above”.

• Anothen = Again (Anew)
• Anothen = From Above

The Catholic Church of today readily sees this.

CCC 526 To become a child in relation to God is the condition for entering the kingdom. For this, we must humble ourselves and become little. Even more: to become “children of God” we must be “born from above” or “born of God”. 206 Only when Christ is formed in us will the mystery of Christmas be fulfilled in us. Christmas is the mystery of this “marvelous exchange”:

O marvelous exchange! Man’s Creator has become man, born of the Virgin. We have been made sharers in the divinity of Christ who humbled himself to share our humanity.208​

The Church of ancient time (which is the same Church as today) readily saw this too.

St. Athanasius matter of factly talks about this **“born again”/“born from above”/baptismal **concept interchangeably with no felt need to defend it. It wasn’t a new teaching when St. Athanasius wrote about being regenerated way back in the 300’s A.D. when he was reaffirming all of this (notice St. Athanasius believes in Baptismal regeneration). First let’s see what St. Athanasius said against the people who denied Jesus was fully God (the Arian heretics).

ST. ATHANASIUS “…as we are all from earth and die in Adam, so
being regenerated from above of water and Spirit, in the Christ we are all quickened.”

- Athanasius Discourses Against the Arians, 3:26 (33), AD 360.​

ST. ATHANASIUS “For he who repents ceases indeed from sinning, but he still has on him the scars of his wounds; whereas he who is baptized, puts off the old man, being born again by the grace of the Spirit.”

- Athanasius, Ep. iv. ad Serap., c. AD 296-373.​

 

[crochet_lady]

Catholic #222 – the last one you posted – you’re right – before Now, never noticed that posts Are numbered.

 

[Lion_Heart]

Lion Heart.
Baptism is the instrumental cause of our salvation (ordinary means).

• The final cause indeed is the glory of God and of Jesus Christ, and life everlasting
• The efficient cause is a merciful God
• The meritorious cause is His most beloved only-begotten, our Lord Jesus Christ
• The instrumental cause is the sacrament of baptism
• The alone formal cause is the justice of God

[/INDENT]

Greetings in Christ Cathoholic,

If we study the Scripture and Church teaching about what does it mean to be born again and what it is like to be born again, we discover THREE DISTINCT SPIRITUAL POSITIONS.

I believe, the clear understanding of these spiritual positions is the key to understand what does it MEAN and what is it LIKE to be Born Again. And what is God’s PROCESS in the way He makes us born again.

Being Born Again is the work of God in respect to us and in us.

First we have to acknowledge, we don’t know everything about it.
We can know only what God has revealed to us, and God reveals to us in the need to know basis.

We know, from Pentecost (Birthday of the Church) people are on three distinct spiritual positions.

1. The spiritual position of the fall of Adam and Eve.
   All those who are not yet Born Again, they are on this spiritual position.
2. The spiritual position of a Born Again in the Body of Christ in Heaven. [At conversion God takes us up to Heaven (Col.1:13; Eph.2:6)].
3. The spiritual position of a Born Again [as he is himself (not as a member of the Body of Christ in Heaven)] as Christ’s ambassador here on earth in the kingdom of Satan.
4. THE SPIRITUAL POSITION OF THE FALL:-

a. He is under God’s CONDEMNATION. – Rom.5:18a; John 3:18b.

b. He is in BONDAGE OF CORRUPTION. – Rom.8:19-21.

c. He is a resident of the KINGDOM OF SATAN. – Luke 4:5-7

d. He is SPIRITUALLY DEAD in sins. – Eph.2:1b; Col.2:13a.

e. He “does NOT accept anything from the Spirit of God: he sees it all as nonsense; it is BEYOND HIS UNDERSTANDING because it CAN ONLY be understood by means of the Spirit.” – 1 Cor.2:14 (Jerusalem Bible) Emphasize mine.

To clearly understand the subject, let’s see the way God takes us out from Satan’s kingdom into Heaven and:- Baptizes us into the Body of Christ.

In the body of Christ, God JUSTIFIES us, RE-CREATES us (Born Again), and SANCTIFIES us.
This is one composite with three parts in it. If we understand the function of each part of them, we can have a deeper understanding.

In the Sacrament of Baptism, there is God’s part to do, and our part to do.
GOD’S PART IN OUR SACRAMENT OF BAPTISM:-

1. “ … He (Christ) loves us and has washed away our sins with His blood,” – 1 Cor.6:11; Rev.1:5. (Jerusalem Bible)
2. God takes us up to heaven. – Col.1:13; Eph.2:6.
3. God Baptizes us into the Body of Christ. – 1 Cor.12:12-13, 20, 27.
4. In the Body of Christ, God JUSTIFIES us, RE-CREATES us (Born Again), and SANCTIFIES. – Rom.3:24; 1 Cor.15:22b; 1 Cor.6:11; Rev.1:5.
5. God gives us His gift of formed faith, (baptism of desire included). – Doctrine of the Church.
6. God prepares our will to freely accept His gift of faith. – Canon 4 of the Council of Orange (529 AD); John 6:44-45.

AT THAT POINT when God gives us His gift of formed faith, AT THAT POINT God also performs His part of our Baptism.

OUR PART IN OUR SACRAMENT OF BAPTISM:-
To carry out our water Baptism.

In the Sacrament of Baptism God’s part PRECEDES our being Born Again/salvation (result of God’s work, our being Born Again/salvation is an instant event), and our being Born Again/salvation PRECEDES our water baptism.

This is the EXACT REASON that catechumens [CCC 1249] are members of the Body of Christ and if they die even as catechumens they go to Heaven, without water baptism or without any other sacraments.

In reality, God’s part in their Sacrament of baptism, is the result:
They are Born Again and saved at the very beginning, at that point when they received God’s gift of faith.

The Scripture proclaims: 1 Cor.15:22; “ … IN CHRIST (Body of Christ) all shall be made alive.”
The following Bible verses 2 Cor.5:19; John 15:5 also states: God reconciles us to Himself in Christ, and unless we are in Christ (Body of Christ) we can do NOTHING.

Gods part in our baptism is THE SAVING PART OF THE BAPTISM.
So, we may say God’s part of our baptism is the “instrumental cause of our salvation.”

God’s part of the Baptism PRECEDES our salvation and our part of the baptism, because until God’s part done, we are on the spiritual position of the fall, and we CAN NOT receive anything from the Spirit of God, in fact it is “foolishness to us.” – 1 Cor.2:14

As we see it above and in [CCC 1249]; Acts 10:44-48, God’s part in our baptism always extraordinary, and our part of water baptism is only ordinary and not even condition of our salvation.

Of course, we should do it if we can. We know, probably millions of catechumens are in Heaven without water baptism or any sacraments.

Gods part to do in our salvation is an INSTANT event, and cause INSTANT Born Again/salvation, and this is God’s gift of everlasting life for His elects, which comes with formal assurances.

First assurance: Rom.11:29 “God NEVER takes back his gifts or REVOKES his choice.” (Jerusalem Bible)

Second assurance: GOD’S GREAT AND SPECIAL GIFT OF FINAL PERSEVERANCE. According to the Council of Trent: This is also an absolute guarantee that the elects don’t lose their salvation.

It is beneficial to know the difference between periodical life and death and everlasting/eternal life. The two are not the same.
God’s gift of His elects is everlasting/eternal life. – Rom.6:23.

Continued on the next post

 

[Lion_Heart]

Continuation

1. THE SPIRITUAL POSITION OF A BORN AGAIN IN HEAVEN IN THE BODY OF CHRIST:-

God’s salvation is HIS GIFT. It is a PERFECT and COMPLETE GIFT.
It is NOT a matter of achieve it, but it is a matter of receive it FREELY by FAITH, which is also HIS GIFT.

We CAN NOT contribute to our salvation (justification, sanctification) even one iota.
In the Body of Christ, we are 100% saved, 100% justified and 100% sanctified. – We cannot add anything to it. It is PERFECT as it is. - GOD’S PERFECT GIFT.

In Christ even our sanctification is completed as it is described in 1 Cor.1:30; 1 Cor.6:11 and in Rev.1:5.
“Him (Christ) loved us and washed us from our sins in his own blood.”
In Christ (as members of His Body) our sanctification is a “past event.”
We are holy and complete in the Body of Christ. – Col.2:10-13.

JOINT DECLARATION ON THE DOCTRINE OF JUSTIFICATION by the Lutheran World Federation and the Catholic Church

3/17 Justification is SOLELY due to the forgiving and renewing mercy that God imparts as a gift and we RECEIVE IN FAITH, and NEVER CAN MERIT IT ANY WAY.

4/25 We confess together that sinners are JUSTIFIED BY FAITH in the saving action of God in Christ. WHATEVER in the JUSTIFIED PRECEDES or FOLLOWS the free gift of FAITH is NEITHER THE BASIS of justification NOR MERITS it.

4/27.The Catholic understanding also sees FAITH as FUNDAMENTAL in justification. FOR WITHOUT FAITH, NO JUSTIFICATION CAN TAKE PLACE. Thus justifying grace never becomes a human possession. While Catholic teaching emphasizes the RENEWAL OF LIFE by justifying grace, this RENEWAL in FAITH, HOPE, LOVE is always dependent on God’s unfathomable grace and CONTRIBUTES NOTHING TO JUSTIFICATION

As God’s elects to Heaven, it is SUPREMELY IMPORTANT to know our spiritual position in the Body of Christ because if we don’t, we can be easily deceived. – Matt.24:4-5, 11, 24; 2 Pet.2:1-3.

As long as we don’t have a CLEAR understanding of the DIFFERENCES between our spiritual position in the Body of Christ, and our spiritual position ourselves as we are ourselves, we can be easily confused and deceived.

As the elects of God, in the Body of Christ we have God’s gift of EVERLASTING LIFE which can NEVER BE REVOKED.
We are perfect and complete in the Body of Christ.

100% RE-CREATED (Born Again/New Creation).
100% JUSTIFIED.
100% SANCTIFIED.

OUR EVERLASTING LIFE IS THE GIFT OF GOD BY CHRIST’S MERIT.
It CAN NOT be improved by addition and as God’s elects to Heaven to lose it is a THEOLOGICAL IMPOSSIBILITY.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA The predestination of the elect

Quote: “Consequently, the whole future membership of heaven, down to its minutest details, … has been irrevocably fixed from all eternity. Nor could it be otherwise. For if it were possible that a predestined individual should after all be cast into hell or that one not predestined should in the end reach heaven, then God would have been mistaken in his foreknowledge of future events; He would no longer be omniscient.” End quote

Continued on the next post

 

[Michael_Francis]

Posts related to exploring merit and justification have been split off into their own thread at Merit & Justification in Salvation (SPLIT)

 

[Cathoholic]

St. Maximilian Kolbe used to make a spiritual Communion every 15 minutes while in Auschwitz. As good as that was, it was not being “born again” and nobody ever thought it was.

This notion of being “born again” being equated with “asking Jesus into your heart as personal Lord and Savior” is NOT historical Christianity!

This concept of “accepting Jesus into your heart as personal Lord and Savior” as being “born again” is often imprecisely thought of as a “Calvinistic” concept (“Calvinistic” named after “John Calvin” who was an ex-Catholic Protestant “reformer” that came slightly after, but overlapped ex-Catholic Priest, Martin Luther in the 1500’s).

According to Reformation Historian, Dr. David Anders (who is also a Catholic Answers Speaker on the radio show), this tradition of men is actually a newer invention than even Calvin’s Protestant Reformation era teachings.

Dr. David Anders (author of the writing: How John Calvin Made Me A Catholic), a historian who specializes in Protestantism, tells us that the concept of “accepting Jesus into your heart as your personal Lord and Savior” is a theological invention that came AFTER John Calvin and other Protestant reformers (but it sounds as though it still came via Calvin’s followers).

This concept showed up in the 1700’s. Anders states:

“Calvin did not know anything about this idea of praying to receive Christ and being born again (in the context of) and Hey brother have you been born again? He knew nothing of that at all. You don’t find it anywhere in Calvin.”

Anders states this concept came later. As Calvin’s Presbyterian religion spread beyond Switzerland, some of the places it spread to, for example England, Presbyterianism was illegal.

The state religion was Anglicanism by this time in England (Henry the VIII and successors effectively outlawing Catholicism and other religions as well).

Since these people couldn’t have public services where they had Baptisms within the Presbyterian Church (or any other non-Anglican Church), more and more home-made traditions kept cropping up as “authentic Christianity”. This tradition of substituting Baptism with “accepting Jesus into your heart as personal Lord and Savior” was one of these new-fangled traditions and is continuing among some Protestants even today.

Dr. Anders states:

The greatest irony in my historical research was realizing that Evangelicalism, far from being the direct descendant of Calvin, actually represents the failure of Calvinism. Whereas Calvin spent his life in the quest for doctrinal unity, modern Evangelicalism is rooted in the rejection of that quest. Historian Alister McGrath notes that the term “Evangelical,” which has circulated in Christianity for centuries, took on its peculiar modern sense only in the twentieth century, with the founding of the National Association of Evangelicals (1942). This society was formed to allow coordinated public action on the part of disparate groups that agreed on “the new birth,” but disagreed on just about everything else.10

Not "Born Again"
“Born Again” does NOT equal accepting Christ into your heart as personal Lord and Savior (as good and appropriate as this acceptance is).

Being "Born Again"

• Born Again (Anew) . . .is . . .
• Born from Above . . . is . . .
• Born of water and the Spirit"
• Baptism

 

[Lion_Heart]

St. Maximilian Kolbe used to make a spiritual Communion every 15 minutes while in Auschwitz. As good as that was, it was not being “born again” and nobody ever thought it was.

This notion of being “born again” being equated with “asking Jesus into your heart as personal Lord and Savior” is NOT historical Christianity!

This concept of “accepting Jesus into your heart as personal Lord and Savior” as being “born again” is often imprecisely thought of as a “Calvinistic” concept (“Calvinistic” named after “John Calvin” who was an ex-Catholic Protestant “reformer” that came slightly after, but overlapped ex-Catholic Priest, Martin Luther in the 1500’s).

According to Reformation Historian, Dr. David Anders (who is also a Catholic Answers Speaker on the radio show), this tradition of men is actually a newer invention than even Calvin’s Protestant Reformation era teachings.

Dr. David Anders (author of the writing: How John Calvin Made Me A Catholic), a historian who specializes in Protestantism, tells us that the concept of “accepting Jesus into your heart as your personal Lord and Savior” is a theological invention that came AFTER John Calvin and other Protestant reformers (but it sounds as though it still came via Calvin’s followers).

This concept showed up in the 1700’s. Anders states:

Anders states this concept came later. As Calvin’s Presbyterian religion spread beyond Switzerland, some of the places it spread to, for example England, Presbyterianism was illegal.

The state religion was Anglicanism by this time in England (Henry the VIII and successors effectively outlawing Catholicism and other religions as well).

Since these people couldn’t have public services where they had Baptisms within the Presbyterian Church (or any other non-Anglican Church), more and more home-made traditions kept cropping up as “authentic Christianity”. This tradition of substituting Baptism with “accepting Jesus into your heart as personal Lord and Savior” was one of these new-fangled traditions and is continuing among some Protestants even today.

Dr. Anders states:

Not "Born Again"
“Born Again” does NOT equal accepting Christ into your heart as personal Lord and Savior (as good and appropriate as this acceptance is).

Being "Born Again"

• Born Again (Anew) . . .is . . .
• Born from Above . . . is . . .
• Born of water and the Spirit"
• Baptism

Greetings in Christ Cathoholic,

I agree with your post. I like to add to it.

The way I see:- The apostles know the importance of the New Birth from the beginning of Christianity.
It is clearly stated in the Scripture. They didn’t focus on the concept until up in the 1700’s.

Christians always had the New Birth/Born From Above from day one of Christianity.
In fact in the first day of Christianity 3000 Born Again counted. – Of course they didn’t know they have been Born Again, but we know it today that their conversion into Christianity was through their New Birth and they where new Creations in Christ. – 2 Cor.5:17.
In the Body of Christ they also reconciled with God. – 2 Cor.5:19.

The knowledge of being Born Again, and the knowledge of God’s process the way He makes someone Born Again is not a condition of the New Birth/Born from Above.

The condition to be Born Again is very clear in the Scripture. For example:-

John 5:24; Faith in the Word of God. (Faith itself is God’s gift.)

John 3:16-18; Faith in Christ and His Saving work.

1 John 5:13; “ … you who believe in the name of the Son of God, you may know that you have eternal life, … .”

Eph.2:8; Describes the end results:- For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that NOT of yourselves; it is the GIFT of God.”

It is VERY SIMPLE: – We may accept God’s gift of faith and we believe the Word of God, or we may reject God’s gift of faith and we don’t believe the Word of God.
One or the other!!!

Without faith it is impossible to please God, and Christ spits the lukewarm out from His mouth.

God’s Economy of Salvation is very simple. Only people make it very - very complicated.

With love in Christ,
LH

 

[Cathoholic]

LionHeart.

Assuming you have a Green paperback CCC, go to page 705. Look down to the CCC citations of John 3:3 and 3:5.

Read all of the citations and notice the all of the discussion about baptism being associated with being “born again” (when reading the CCC paragraphs you will have to look at and sometimes read the footnotes too).

This will help in giving you the mind of the Church concerning being “born again”.

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

For some it’s a pleasant event, I suppose, but for me, IT WAS HELL!
(Lord have Mercy )
The reason it was so “bad” for me was that I had left Christianity for a time, became a
serious Goddess-worshiping Pagan, very antagonistic to Christianity, Abrahamic relig-
ions, even the very God himself. I was a radical-feminist (though still against abortion),
had a disdain for men, and yada yada, blah blah blah blah . . .

Despite my being Pagan, however, I was lead to see a video about Anton Lavey
(**NOT **that I liked him, I was just curious), I believe it was about his last words.
Video kinda scared me, reminded me of that Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit,
and I found myself in utter darkness.

“Oh my God, I’m going to Hell!” was essentially my general feeling. I had realized
that I had been wrong all that time of being Pagan, even after how I literally brain–
washed myself, and found that Christianity was correct.

Imagine now walking confidently in a dark cave deep under the Earth with a flash-
light, torch, or whatever, and your only source of light fails. Imagine also you are
going deep underwater in a submarine, deeper than you should, then the body of
the submarine fails under that deep pressure, suddenly water bursts in and there
is no hope of surviving. Such was my born again experience.

Took a while for my Christian mind to reboot, but that spiritual fail-safe program
empowered by the Holy Spirit got me back on track to the Catholic Church.

 

[crochet_lady]

Juddas Thaddeus

Your experience of being ‘born again’ – apparently brought on by your viewing a video by Anton Lavey – No idea of who he is, but Scripturally, there is a sense of inner peace when a person confesses their sinfulness to God through Jesus Christ / believes in their heart that Jesus Christ’s shed blood is all that’s needed to cleanse them from all unrighteousness. That He IS the Son of God. That Jesus died on the cross for Them and that He was buried and rose again the 3rd day. That there is Nothing that the person can do - on their own - to earn their way to heaven. The Holy Spirit enters the person’s life Immediately and gives inner peace.

 

[crochet_lady]

Hi – I just looked up the person – he’d been a Satanist / church of Satan. And he had a death-bed experience where he was realizing that he’d been Wrong all those years. I watched the video. Very Strange. But apparently you Also realized that You had been wrong, also. Maybe you were ‘seeing’ your own personal 'hell" ? But – You can talk to God about all of this – confess – repent – accept God’s gift of salvation.

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that who so ever believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life.”

Jesus Christ tells us in John 14:6 “I am the Way, the Truth and the life - no man comes to the Father, but by Me.”

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

Hi – I just looked up the person – he’d been a Satanist / church of Satan. And he had a death-bed experience where he was realizing that he’d been Wrong all those years. I watched the video. Very Strange. But apparently you Also realized that You had been wrong, also. Maybe you were ‘seeing’ your own personal 'hell" ? But – You can talk to God about all of this – confess – repent – accept God’s gift of salvation.

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that who so ever believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life.”

Jesus Christ tells us in John 14:6 “I am the Way, the Truth and the life - no man comes to the Father, but by Me.”

Essentially yeah, Holy Spirit gave me a small sample
of the terror of Hell I believe, as though to say, “STOP,
YOU’RE GOING THE WRONG WAY!!!” but just to let
you know, that was a while ago, all is well now.

Christian again, given new life, new sight, I recognize
so much more than I did beforehand, Hallelujah!

 

[crochet_lady]

I was concerned because of what you described as a horrible experience of being ‘born again’. Couldn’t imagine Why / How the 'accepting Jesus Christ as personal Savior could be a horrible experience.

Everyone comes from a ‘place in life’ Before realizing their need of the Savior. So apparently you are Now a born-again believer and are in the process of growing spiritually – as all of us have the opportunity to do.

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

I was concerned because of what you described as a horrible experience of being ‘born again’. Couldn’t imagine Why / How the 'accepting Jesus Christ as personal Savior could be a horrible experience.
Everyone comes from a ‘place in life’ Before realizing their need of the Savior. So apparently you are Now a born-again believer and are in the process of growing spiritually – as all of us have the opportunity to do.

Well it was just what I needed. I was baptized, confirmed, already committed to the Holy
Spirit, God let me wander away so that when all came crashing down, God would be like,
“Do you understand now?” Really, I don’t know if there was any other way the Holy Spirit
could draw me back safe by fear. I would actually liken my born again experience to that
which we all experience when we are born as babes, confused, crying, and screaming in-
to the world, then being in the safe and comforting arms of a parent.