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ahs
Guest
I thought the DR was released prior to the KJB (NT in 1582, OT in 1609)? I understand there was a revision sometime in around 1750-52 which landed in it current state, though. Maybe that’s what you are referring to?
- Status
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ActsOfTheApossibles
Guest
That is not how the scripture itself says it is to be interpreted.
Gen 40:8 And they said unto him, We have dreamed a dream, and there is no interpreter of it. And Joseph said unto them, Do not interpretations belong to God? tell me them, I pray you.
2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
So therefore, it is not that “I” interpret, or “you” interpret, or ‘he/she/they’ interpret, or even that the church interprets. God interprets His own word, line upon line, and thus God defines everything within the scripture, since it is His word, He knows what He said.
Our job is to simply “Amen” that which God gives plainly.
For instance:
Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
What are “waters”? What I "interpret it to mean? No. What you interpret them to mean? No. What some others interpret it to mean? No. What a ‘Magisterium’ interprets them to mean. No. God already interpreted it, defined it, explained it in the word itself (line upon line):
Rev 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
In fact, He does so in the mouth of two or three witnesses in every case:
Isa_17:12 Woe to the multitude of many people, which make a noise like the noise of the seas; and to the rushing of nations, that make a rushing like the rushing of mighty waters!
Isa_17:13 The nations shall rush like the rushing of many waters: but God shall rebuke them, and they shall flee far off, and shall be chased as the chaff of the mountains before the wind, and like a rolling thing before the whirlwind.
This is one definition of “waters” in the Bible, and there are a few more, and each definition that God gave may be applied in the appropriate manner so long as the ‘equation’ is ‘equal’ [Ezekiel 18:25,29, balanced [Leviticus 19:36]; [Ezekiel 45:10]].
GospelOfMatthew
New member
Some Protestants say that, especially Baptists in my experience. The translations aren’t 100% perfect in some cases. Personally, the Bible I use that I have tabs in and a bunch of sticky notes from studying it is The New American Bible. I also have The Ignatius Bible.
I would not recommend King James Bible because it was written specifically to have translations that favor certain Protestant beliefs. The New American Bible is very common and I know a lot of Catholics that use that one.
KJV I believe is also missing 5 books of the Bible
I would not recommend King James Bible because it was written specifically to have translations that favor certain Protestant beliefs. The New American Bible is very common and I know a lot of Catholics that use that one.
KJV I believe is also missing 5 books of the Bible
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Savage92
Guest
Well the numbers references that were made were interesting. Not sure about how much of those facts are true though.
To start the ball off, many or most early church father’s accepted at least some portion of the deuterocanical books and all once the Church accepted them. Second they were found in the dead Sea scrolls and had acceptance within varying Jewish communities. Third there was no Jewish “Church”, the people who abandoned the true faith created their smaller canon after the Christian Church, of which both east and west agree. Fourth Luther wanted any book that disagreed with his interpretation of Paul to be removed from the Bible, including the book of hebrews, revelation and others as they were also considered “deuterocanical”/contested by the early church. And lastly nothing else in the Bible says anything about prayer for the dead, so you can’t contradict what’s not there, although it is even disputed within Judaism despite not accepting these books.
This is one good resource, I’m sure people here will have more to cover this one.
To start the ball off, many or most early church father’s accepted at least some portion of the deuterocanical books and all once the Church accepted them. Second they were found in the dead Sea scrolls and had acceptance within varying Jewish communities. Third there was no Jewish “Church”, the people who abandoned the true faith created their smaller canon after the Christian Church, of which both east and west agree. Fourth Luther wanted any book that disagreed with his interpretation of Paul to be removed from the Bible, including the book of hebrews, revelation and others as they were also considered “deuterocanical”/contested by the early church. And lastly nothing else in the Bible says anything about prayer for the dead, so you can’t contradict what’s not there, although it is even disputed within Judaism despite not accepting these books.
This is one good resource, I’m sure people here will have more to cover this one.
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Savage92
Guest
Also considering that almost every doctrine except the Trinity (mostly) is up for dispute in Protestant circles that kind of shows that interpretation is necessary, they all teach their own views as doctrine and most don’t interpret the same way without coaching.
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Juvenal
Guest
The KJV. Good enough for Jesus, good enough for me.
</southern baptist>
</southern baptist>
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lilypadrees
Guest
My mother used to be a Protestant. And for her, it was definitely the flowery language of the KJV. When she became Catholic, I gave her my Douay-Rheims Bible so she could continue to enjoy the flowery language she was used to.
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ActsOfTheApossibles
Guest
“Flowery”? It is not the ‘flowery-ness’, and though musical (for God is musical), it is the word itself that has/is the power:
Heb_4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
However, allow me to show you some of the depth of the preserved word of God in English, the KJB, in its glory:
Musical “Meter”:
[A] ‘Iambic’ meter [there are many types of ‘meter’, this is one example]
But as … … for me, … …
my feet … … were al … … most gone:
my steps … … had well … … nigh slipped.
The accent is on the second words. In fact, raise your hand in a chopping motion and follow along, raising the hand on the first word, lowering on the second word, and see how it ‘bounces’ along, making for easy memorization.
This works really well in the psalms, since they are written for music, but it is also found throughout all the scripture (KJB). Notice, also the syllable locations and notice their parallels:
[A] my feet
my steps
[A] were almost gone
had well nigh slipped.
Try some other ones, like Isaiah 14:12; 1 John 3:24; 1 John 2:22, etc. One will find Rhythm, Cadence, Meter, Parallels, Syllable matching, Repetition, etc.
Consider the simplicity of the KJB, in its single syllable words and even sentences, so that a ‘little child’ may understand and speak the word of God boldly:
Sets of three’s syllables:
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
In the be
gin ing God
Cre a ted
the hea ven
and the earth
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
And the earth
was with out
form and void
and dark ness
was up on
the face of
the deep And
the Spir it
of God mo
ved up on
the face of
the wa ters
Rev 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father’s name written in their foreheads.
And I looked
and lo a
lamb stood on
the mount Si
on and with
him an hun
dred and for
ty and four
thou sand hav
ing his fa
ther’s name in
their for heads
No other Bible is like it in existence.
Another example, a mixed version of syllabication:
Joh_16:29 His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb.
[A] 3 sets of 4, single syllables:
[A] His … di … sci … ples
[A] said … un … to … him
[A] Lo … now … speak … est
3 sets of 3, single syllables:
thou … plain … ly
and … speak … est
no … pro …verb.
Only the English King James Bible is so unique , though some of these things will be found in rare instances in other translations (generally because they borrow from the KJB so much).
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lilypadrees
Guest
“Flowery” is the word my mother used to describe the language of the KJV. Since I was stating why she loved it so, I felt it best to use her word.
M
MichaelP3
Guest
Nothing.
The rest of the world like myself only got one when we learned the English language.
The rest of the world like myself only got one when we learned the English language.
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Shasta-Rose
Guest
Good article. Thanks!
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Tarsier
Guest
I had a public debate with a Church of Christ preacher (online if anyone wants to view it). The subject was authority, and he made an assertion about resting their doctrine on the text of the King James Version. I gave a list of errors that Scripture scholars have found in the KJV. The hall was full of CoC members (with four of my Catholic friends). It was a civil debate (we both were complimented on that after), but I wanted his members to see that their Bible-only foundation has several problems, not the least of which is relying on the type of flaws one would see in any translation.
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Shasta-Rose
Guest
I guess it’s just what you like. Here is KJV.
10 Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies.
11 The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil.
12 She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life.
13 She seeketh wool, and flax, and worketh willingly with her hands.
14 She is like the merchants’ ships; she bringeth her food from afar.
15 She riseth also while it is yet night, and giveth meat to her household, and a portion to her maidens.
16 She considereth a field, and buyeth it: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard.
17 She girdeth her loins with strength, and strengtheneth her arms.
18 She perceiveth that her merchandise is good: her candle goeth not out by night.
19 She layeth her hands to the spindle, and her hands hold the distaff.
20 She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy.
21 She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet.
22 She maketh herself coverings of tapestry; her clothing is silk and purple.
23 Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land.
24 She maketh fine linen, and selleth it; and delivereth girdles unto the merchant.
25 Strength and honour are her clothing; and she shall rejoice in time to come.
26 She openeth her mouth with wisdom; and in her tongue is the law of kindness.
27 She looketh well to the ways of her household, and eateth not the bread of idleness.
28 Her children arise up, and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praiseth her.
29 Many daughters have done virtuously, but thou excellest them all.
30 Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the Lord, she shall be praised.
31 Give her of the fruit of her hands; and let her own works praise her in the gates.
10 Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies.
11 The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil.
12 She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life.
13 She seeketh wool, and flax, and worketh willingly with her hands.
14 She is like the merchants’ ships; she bringeth her food from afar.
15 She riseth also while it is yet night, and giveth meat to her household, and a portion to her maidens.
16 She considereth a field, and buyeth it: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard.
17 She girdeth her loins with strength, and strengtheneth her arms.
18 She perceiveth that her merchandise is good: her candle goeth not out by night.
19 She layeth her hands to the spindle, and her hands hold the distaff.
20 She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy.
21 She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet.
22 She maketh herself coverings of tapestry; her clothing is silk and purple.
23 Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land.
24 She maketh fine linen, and selleth it; and delivereth girdles unto the merchant.
25 Strength and honour are her clothing; and she shall rejoice in time to come.
26 She openeth her mouth with wisdom; and in her tongue is the law of kindness.
27 She looketh well to the ways of her household, and eateth not the bread of idleness.
28 Her children arise up, and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praiseth her.
29 Many daughters have done virtuously, but thou excellest them all.
30 Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the Lord, she shall be praised.
31 Give her of the fruit of her hands; and let her own works praise her in the gates.
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Shasta-Rose
Guest
And the New Amer. Bible Revised
10 Who can find[f] a woman of worth?
Far beyond jewels is her value.
11 Her husband trusts her judgment;
he does not lack income.
12 She brings him profit, not loss,[g]
all the days of her life.
13 She seeks out wool and flax
and weaves with skillful hands.
14 Like a merchant fleet,[h]
she secures her provisions from afar.
15 She rises while it is still night,
and distributes food to her household,
a portion to her maidservants.
16 She picks out a field and acquires it;
from her earnings she plants a vineyard.
17 She girds herself with strength;
she exerts her arms with vigor.[i]
18 She enjoys the profit from her dealings;
her lamp is never extinguished at night.[j]
19 She puts her hands to the distaff,
and her fingers ply the spindle.[k]
20 She reaches out her hands to the poor,
and extends her arms to the needy.
21 She is not concerned for her household when it snows—
all her charges are doubly clothed.
22 She makes her own coverlets;
fine linen and purple are her clothing.
23 Her husband is prominent at the city gates
as he sits with the elders of the land.[l]
24 She makes garments and sells them,
and stocks the merchants with belts.
25 She is clothed with strength and dignity,
and laughs at the days to come.[m]
26 She opens her mouth in wisdom;
kindly instruction is on her tongue.
27 She watches over[n] the affairs of her household,
and does not eat the bread of idleness.
28 Her children rise up and call her blessed;
her husband, too, praises her:
29 “Many are the women of proven worth,
but you have excelled them all.”
30 Charm is deceptive and beauty fleeting;
the woman who fears the Lord is to be praised.[o]
31 Acclaim her for the work of her hands,
and let her deeds praise her at the city gates.
10 Who can find[f] a woman of worth?
Far beyond jewels is her value.
11 Her husband trusts her judgment;
he does not lack income.
12 She brings him profit, not loss,[g]
all the days of her life.
13 She seeks out wool and flax
and weaves with skillful hands.
14 Like a merchant fleet,[h]
she secures her provisions from afar.
15 She rises while it is still night,
and distributes food to her household,
a portion to her maidservants.
16 She picks out a field and acquires it;
from her earnings she plants a vineyard.
17 She girds herself with strength;
she exerts her arms with vigor.[i]
18 She enjoys the profit from her dealings;
her lamp is never extinguished at night.[j]
19 She puts her hands to the distaff,
and her fingers ply the spindle.[k]
20 She reaches out her hands to the poor,
and extends her arms to the needy.
21 She is not concerned for her household when it snows—
all her charges are doubly clothed.
22 She makes her own coverlets;
fine linen and purple are her clothing.
23 Her husband is prominent at the city gates
as he sits with the elders of the land.[l]
24 She makes garments and sells them,
and stocks the merchants with belts.
25 She is clothed with strength and dignity,
and laughs at the days to come.[m]
26 She opens her mouth in wisdom;
kindly instruction is on her tongue.
27 She watches over[n] the affairs of her household,
and does not eat the bread of idleness.
28 Her children rise up and call her blessed;
her husband, too, praises her:
29 “Many are the women of proven worth,
but you have excelled them all.”
30 Charm is deceptive and beauty fleeting;
the woman who fears the Lord is to be praised.[o]
31 Acclaim her for the work of her hands,
and let her deeds praise her at the city gates.
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Seagull
Guest
NO - I don’t " quote " chapter and verse - never have - never will.
That’s Protestant thing.
Even though Jesus - quoted the bible - to Satan
He didn’t give Chapter and verse.
Satan quoted scripture - right back -
Interestingly - Satan - didn’t use what book, what chapter and what verse either.
That’s Protestant thing.
Even though Jesus - quoted the bible - to Satan
He didn’t give Chapter and verse.
Satan quoted scripture - right back -
Interestingly - Satan - didn’t use what book, what chapter and what verse either.
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on_the_hill
Guest
Whenever people say, “We need to put the Bible back in the classroom/schools!”
I ask, “Which version?” Because I’m sure 100 times out of 100 they mean the KJV.
I ask, “Which version?” Because I’m sure 100 times out of 100 they mean the KJV.
O
on_the_hill
Guest
So that’s the one he used. I always wondered which one he carried with him for reference.
po18guy
Well-known member
Trust your Church. Those who proclaim such highly opinionated nonsense are not to be listened to. The KJV, good as it is, did not fall from heaven. It was translated by men who worked for a rebellious secular king who persecuted the English Catholic Church.
Do not listen to them!
Do not listen to them!
A
ahs
Guest
This probably can’t be possible because the Catholic Church didn’t allow vernacular translations to be made to prevent the Bible from being read
Oh yeah, I forgot about that!- Status