What's the craziest Anti-Catholic whopper you've ever heard?

[Saintlucy]

The fast of Good Friday extends until the Easter Vigil, which begins after sunset on Saturday.

I know it’s not a whopper and a bit off topic but I never heard that before. Therefore, I had a bit of a surf and found this:

In the 1950’s, Pope Pius XII issued a decree restoring the celebrations of the Easter Triduum to their proper times. With the restoration, the requirement to maintain the fast until noon on Holy Saturday no longer made sense so Holy Saturday ceased to be a day of fast. To this day, church law requires that we observe the Paschal fast, if between the ages of 14 and 59 and not prevented by illness, and abstain from meat only on Good Friday. Nonetheless, the litugical directives promulgated in the reforms after the Second Vatican Council recommend quite strongly that we extend the fast through Holy Saturday, up to the Easter Vigil, if possible, in accord with the original tradition. Note that the extension of the fast through Holy Saturday does NOT require that we abstain from meat.

 

[jmcrae]

I know it’s not a whopper and a bit off topic but I never heard that before. Therefore, I had a bit of a surf and found this:

In the 1950’s, Pope Pius XII issued a decree restoring the celebrations of the Easter Triduum to their proper times. With the restoration, the requirement to maintain the fast until noon on Holy Saturday no longer made sense so Holy Saturday ceased to be a day of fast. To this day, church law requires that we observe the Paschal fast, if between the ages of 14 and 59 and not prevented by illness, and abstain from meat only on Good Friday. Nonetheless, the litugical directives promulgated in the reforms after the Second Vatican Council recommend quite strongly that we extend the fast through Holy Saturday, up to the Easter Vigil, if possible, in accord with the original tradition. Note that the extension of the fast through Holy Saturday does NOT require that we abstain from meat.

Thanks!!

 

[Saintlucy]

Here’s how I look at it. The Saints in Heaven are just as alive as we are. They seem to have particular areas of expertise, which we can call on, in times of emergency.

Here in the material world, if something goes wrong, yes, you certainly pray to Jesus (at least, I know I do), but you also pick up the phone and ask for human help, as well.

For example, if I get a flat tire, I certainly pray to Jesus, but I also pick up the phone and call my motor club. They send a guy out who has the equipment and knowledge to be able to fix my tire very quickly and get me back out on the road again.

Now, I could pray to Jesus alone, and there is a small chance that the tire would appear to miraculously re-inflate itself, but I don’t count on that happening. Not that I don’t think Jesus is capable of re-inflating my tire, but rather, I understand that that’s just not how Jesus has set things up for us.

Jesus’ final and most important commandment to us was “Love one another” and, there was a time when it was well understood that love works best when we need each other. So, Jesus has created a world in which we must depend for our needs on other human beings; not only on Him.

It also continues to work this way in Heaven, as well - even in Heaven, it won’t just be a “me and Jesus” experience - we’re also going to be loving one another in Heaven, as well.

The Communion of Saints means that the Saints still on earth, the Saints in Purgatory, and the Saints in Heaven all have the ability to help each other (that is, to love one another in practical ways). Jesus set it up this way on purpose, to show us the true meaning of love - that it’s not just a nice feeling in your chest, or nice thoughts in your mind, but actual, practical assistance to one another.

That was very helpful. I just don’t know what I’d do without St Anthony of Padua because I’m always losing things. He works so quickly it’s just incredible. I’ve called on him twice today. St Jude takes a lot longer, probably because if we call on him we’re in dire straits.

My father, God rest his soul, was losing his sight and his eye was wandering. I took him to the Eye Hospital and he was admitted immediately. They discovered that he had advanced temporal arteritis and that it was almost certain that he would lose his sight. He was put on huge doses of oral steroids (Prednisolone) but he also made a novena to St Jude by going to Mass every Friday for nine weeks. His sight didn’t improve until after that last Friday and then it returned to normal. The opthalmic surgeons were mystified.

I guess each saint has his or her own department to run with God who gives the final decision and works the miracle.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Let me venture one criticism of Catholicism that confuses me. It goes like this.

Catholics pray to various saints, all of whom have performed miracles - or at least been responsible for initiating miracles. Maybe Mary Smith prayed to St. Anthony of Padua to help her find a lost item, she finds it, and credits him. Maybe John Jones has a very sick child, prays to St. Jude, the child recovers, and he credits St. Jude. Etc.

According to a Protestant I know well, this smacks of the remnants of polytheism. Praying to these saints, in effect, is praying to someone other than God (Christ) who can, in effect, bring about miracles. He argues that this was a major point made by the Reformation. Protestants, he argues, go right to God through Christ our Redeemer.

 The Protestant - actually very ecumenical, friendly to Catholicism and nearly all Christian groups (certain fundamentalists, Mormons, etc. excepted) - feels that this whole business of saintly intercession is a relic of ancient Greco-Roman polytheism. Catholicism provides a vast pantheon (10,000 or so?) of saints who have supernatural powers either directly or by interceding with (special influence with) God.

  How does one respond? Why don't we all go directly to God through Christ? He feels that this pantheon of saints easily can lead to superstition???

  Thanks for any responses.

Roy5–let me ask you this question…do you ask people here on earth to pray for you? I would venture that you do. Why not just directly to Christ everytime? You probably do that as well. To me it’s no different then asking for a saints intersession. We ask the saints to pray for us. “Holy Mary, Mother of God…Pray for us now and at the hour of our death.”

 

[MariaG]

Let me venture one criticism of Catholicism that confuses me. It goes like this.

Catholics pray to various saints, all of whom have performed miracles - or at least been responsible for initiating miracles. Maybe Mary Smith prayed to St. Anthony of Padua to help her find a lost item, she finds it, and credits him. Maybe John Jones has a very sick child, prays to St. Jude, the child recovers, and he credits St. Jude. Etc.

According to a Protestant I know well, this smacks of the remnants of polytheism. Praying to these saints, in effect, is praying to someone other than God (Christ) who can, in effect, bring about miracles. He argues that this was a major point made by the Reformation. Protestants, he argues, go right to God through Christ our Redeemer.

 The Protestant - actually very ecumenical, friendly to Catholicism and nearly all Christian groups (certain fundamentalists, Mormons, etc. excepted) - feels that this whole business of saintly intercession is a relic of ancient Greco-Roman polytheism. Catholicism provides a vast pantheon (10,000 or so?) of saints who have supernatural powers either directly or by interceding with (special influence with) God.

  How does one respond? Why don't we all go directly to God through Christ? He feels that this pantheon of saints easily can lead to superstition???

  Thanks for any responses.

It is only polytheism for those who have no underfstanding of the communnion of saints.

It is is exactly like asking any friend you have to pray for you. Through Christ we can all pray for one another.

 

[Linda_Marie]

That was very helpful. I just don’t know what I’d do without St Anthony of Padua because I’m always losing things. He works so quickly it’s just incredible.

Reminds me of a story…

One of my bookkeeping clients is a fundamentalist school. We were in the office and we had a software consultant in doing some work for us. He asked us for a required disc. It was supposed to be in this small 3 shelf 2 foot wide cabinet. The secretary had been searching through this cabinet for 20 minutes trying to find the disc, so I said, “St. Anthony, please help us to find this disc.” 5 seconds later, she put her hand on it.

The looks I got… wide eyes, disbelieving.

The thing is, the building this school now occupies used to be a convent dedicated to St. Anthony.

I didn’t know it at the time, but the software consultant was Catholic. He came to Mass the next Sunday, the first time in years.

Thank you, St, Anthony.

There is no bypassing of Jesus when we ask for the intercession of the Saints, anymore than there is a bypassing of Jesus when we ask others to pray for us. It is not ‘instead of’ but ‘in addition to’.

 

[Zooey]

Okay, wait a minute.

Let’s back up a little.

There is no Santa Claus

:bighanky:

Yeah, I know…That one left me :bigyikes: :imsorry: :sad_bye:…

 

[jmcrae]

Yeah, I know…That one left me :bigyikes: :imsorry: :sad_bye:…

Santa Claus is real, honey - don’t let anyone deceive you. He’s the spirit of generosity that inspires us to help the poor and give gifts to one another at Christmas time.

 

[John_of_Woking]

Santa Claus is real, honey - don’t let anyone deceive you. He’s the spirit of generosity that inspires us to help the poor and give gifts to one another at Christmas time.

Thanks I have *the *tricky conversation coming up……with my dad

 

[StrawberryJam]

Just like you allow and encourage your children to think and learn–but don’t you tell them to stay away from poison? I mean, really, do you let them drink acetone so they can experience it and learn?

Drinking poison and handling snakes are mentioned in the bible.

 

[PRmerger]

Drinking poison and handling snakes are mentioned in the bible.

In what context?

Does it say to experiment with drinking poison in order to see if it’s truly toxic or not? For that was the context of my dialogue with Major Tom.

 

[jmcrae]

Thanks I have *the *tricky conversation coming up……with my dad

Good luck.

 

[StrawberryJam]

In what context?

Does it say to experiment with drinking poison in order to see if it’s truly toxic or not? For that was the context of my dialogue with Major Tom.

I did not follow the dialouge with Major Tom, I admit.

Since the bible does not state why one can drink poision or handle snakes, I am unable to answer. It simply mentions believers can do this. They can also move mountians. They can defy all natural laws it seems.

 

[PRmerger]

I did not follow the dialouge with Major Tom, I admit.

Since the bible does not state why one can drink poision or handle snakes, I am unable to answer. It simply mentions believers can do this. They can also move mountians. They can defy all natural laws it seems.

The point, then, was not whether something is mentioned in the Bible, but whether we as parents allow our children to drink poison just to let them “learn the truth” about it.

 

[StrawberryJam]

The point, then, was not whether something is mentioned in the Bible, but whether we as parents allow our children to drink poison just to let them “learn the truth” about it.

Of course, I agree the passages in the bible would not be reason to risk the life of a child, yet it happens often in the believer community.

 

[Major_Tom]

Hello again, everyone…!

Indeed it is allowed and encouraged. In fact, Tom, some of our best thinkers have been elevated to doctors of the Church–for this very reason: they pondered the Trinity and contemplated the juxtaposition of faith/reason and argued about the value of science. For this they were rewarded with sainthood.

I think it’s just the Church being wise saying, “Stay away from poison.”

Wouldn’t you tell your children not to play in a mine field?

So, when some of the church’s best thinkers were pondering the Trinity, etc… they were “handling poison”? Or “playing in a mine field?” What if they were warned of the danger, and decided to not to ponder those things, I wonder?

 

[Major_Tom]

I don’t know what you’re referring to. Who said we abstain from meat on Holy Saturday?

All Fridays are “mini-Good Fridays” and are days of penitence. All Sundays are “mini-Easters”.

I interpreted your post #261 as suggesting such…

 

[Major_Tom]

Thanks for your posts…

Actually, by all participating in the same penance together, we strengthen one another. If the whole family and the whole community is abstaining from meat, instead of just one person, you can abstain more quietly - you don’t have to explain yourself at every meal that you aren’t eating meat today. The whole family doing it together means that you can talk about other things over your fish and chips, or your mac and cheese.

Vegetarians would choose another discipline to follow, and again, if the whole family were doing it together, there would be no need for explanations.

Because it was on a Friday that Jesus gave up His flesh (carne) for the salvation of our souls, so in response, we give up warm-blooded meat (carne) on Fridays, to remember His sacrifice for us. It’s kind of a pun, but it helps us remember why Fridays are set apart from the rest of the week as days of penance, just as Sundays are set apart from the rest of the week as days of celebration and worship, in remembrance of the Resurrection.

I don’t argue with the logic with several of the fasting rules. However, I do think that just as strong a case can be made for alternate fasting rules… which means that there is an amount of subjectivity to them. I think this subjectivity can extend to other elements of the faith. If Irenaeus (or some of the other Church fathers) had put there considerable weight behind one of the alternates, isn’t there a good chance that others would have followed?

 

[to_seek]

This from another post her in CAF…

“You cannot say that. I was in the Church for a very long time and I left only because I saw some disturbing elements creeping in, like the Our father Our Mother, pagan prayer that some Priests had started to teach and preach as authentic which it is not. Tell me also why do some of the more modern Catholic Churches have occultish signs built into the building, like the inverted triangle with the eye, ? Why has 2 popes been photographed doing hand signs clearly of satanic origin? Why does Mary herself warn catholics to pray against the evils that have hit the Vatican in the 70s Clearly there is still division between post Vatican 2 catholics and pre Vatican Church?”

I am so sorry you felt you had to put my thread onto this site. I thought this wasnt about mocking people who are searching but I obviously got that wrong and I got you wrong as well. Why dont you look into your need to do this? And you know what, everything I wrote that is supposedly a " crazy anti-catholic whopper" comes from the internet which I read a lot about over a period of time in my searching which is far from anti-catholic. I am going to report your comments and any others like it. Try a little mercy From to seek, the person you are laughing about!!!

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I am so sorry you felt you had to put my thread onto this site. I thought this wasnt about mocking people who are searching but I obviously got that wrong and I got you wrong as well. Why dont you look into your need to do this? And you know what, everything I wrote that is supposedly a " crazy anti-catholic whopper" comes from the internet which I read a lot about over a period of time in my searching which is far from anti-catholic. I am going to report your comments and any others like it. Try a little mercy From to seek, the person you are laughing about!!!

You get your info from the internet? LOL!!!
Yeah, that’s a real credible source for solid research information… what with all the propaganda, tabloid articles, and conspiracy theory websites out there. The internet is indeed veeeeery reliable.