What's the difference between Lutherin and Evangelical Lutherin

[duneman]

right on julie… i started the Anti Christ Pope thing… sorry… and enjoyed the comments on this… you and your family have a super Easter !!

 

[duneman]

to Juliebug108 I was Wels, Missouri Synod and Episcopalian… before meeting my wife who was Catholic… i went with her to Church, fell in love with the Mass and all that went with it, so i became Catholic, joined the Mother Church i call it and have been a happy Catholic for 25 years !!

 

[Alix1912]

There is generally a recitation from the Pastor and the congregation, where the Pastor then says something along the lines of “By the power and authority of Our Lord Jesus Christ, I forgive you your sins…” Something like that. There is usually a moment for silent reflection…my church rarely does this, but the ELCA churches I was raised in always did.

Peace and blessings,
Julie

Interesting as the ELCA churches that I have visited did not do confession each service, yet every LCMS church I have been to does.

Does your church follow the Divine services in the Lutheran Hymnal? The order of confession precededs each service according to the hymnal.

Also the Lutheran Church doesn’t teach that God doesn;t see your sins or that you don;t have to confess them…it does teach that you only have to confess to God, though confessing to another is recommended if you are really struggling with something. Also it teaches that you cannot perform penance as a way to “work” off your sins.

 

[Juliebug108]

Interesting as the ELCA churches that I have visited did not do confession each service, yet every LCMS church I have been to does.

Does your church follow the Divine services in the Lutheran Hymnal? The order of confession precededs each service according to the hymnal.

Also the Lutheran Church doesn’t teach that God doesn;t see your sins or that you don;t have to confess them…it does teach that you only have to confess to God, though confessing to another is recommended if you are really struggling with something. Also it teaches that you cannot perform penance as a way to “work” off your sins.

The LCMS church that I am currently a member of very rarely does the general confession, nor did the other one…so, clearly there are differences in the way that individual congregations do things. My LCMS church also practices open communion with all believers.

My pastoral staff ARE teaching that God no longer sees our sins, and as mentioned before, my congregation’s senior pastor is the district Vice President for the LCMS in my area…so…idk…

I’ve had conversations with other Lutheran pastors who have defended this teaching as well…

As for your statement about confession, you are mistaken. The church doesn’t teach that you only need to confess to God…the general confession is where we confess to the pastor and our fellow congregants, culminating with the pastor absolving our sins. Private confession is also taught. I spent a good deal of time learning about it while in confirmation.

lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=2635

Luther’s small catechism clearly stresses that we should utilize a confessor:

bookofconcord.org/smallcatechism.php#confession

What is Confession?*

Confession embraces two parts: the one is, that we confess our sins; the other, that we receive absolution, or forgiveness, from the confessor, as from God Himself, and in no wise doubt, but firmly believe, that our sins are thereby forgiven before God in heaven.

Peace and blessings,
Julie

 

[Alix1912]

The LCMS church that I am currently a member of very rarely does the general confession, nor did the other one…so, clearly there are differences in the way that individual congregations do things. My LCMS church also practices open communion with all believers.

My pastoral staff ARE teaching that God no longer sees our sins, and as mentioned before, my congregation’s senior pastor is the district Vice President for the LCMS in my area…so…idk…

I’ve had conversations with other Lutheran pastors who have defended this teaching as well…

As for your statement about confession, you are mistaken. The church doesn’t teach that you only need to confess to God…the general confession is where we confess to the pastor and our fellow congregants, culminating with the pastor absolving our sins. Private confession is also taught. I spent a good deal of time learning about it while in confirmation.

lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=2635

Luther’s small catechism clearly stresses that we should utilize a confessor:

bookofconcord.org/smallcatechism.php#confession

Peace and blessings,
Julie

Wow I’m shocked that you congregation is OK with open communion as that is a core teaching of the LCMS. Only those who confess to the doctrine of the LCMS are supposed to be communing. Interesting.

 

[Juliebug108]

Wow I’m shocked that you congregation is OK with open communion as that is a core teaching of the LCMS. Only those who confess to the doctrine of the LCMS are supposed to be communing. Interesting.

yeah…they are really a bit “unorthodox” on some things.

I found a copy of Luther’s teaching on imputed righteousness that teaches that our sins are concealed from God, and goes right along with what my pastors are teaching, so I’ll share below:

Luther developed this concept of imputed righteousness **as attested in his own words **(emphasis added):

“Here a theological question arises. How can we become “purer than snow” even though the remnants of sin always cling to us? I answer: I have always said that man is divided into spirit and flesh. Therefore as far as the total man is concerned, there remain remnants of sin or, as Paul calls them (2 Cor. 7:1), “defilements of body and spirit.” Defilements of the spirit are doubt about grace, imperfect faith, murmurings against God, impatience, imperfect knowledge of the will of God, and the like. Defilements of the flesh are adultery, lusts, murder, brawls, and the like. The defilements of the spirit are increased in the world through heretics, the defilements of the flesh through other offenses, so that both spirit and body are polluted. Because of these defilements we are never as pure and holy as we really should be. Still we have obtained Baptism, which is most pure; we have obtained the Word, which is most pure; and in the Word and Baptism we have by faith obtained the blood of Christ, which is surely most pure. According to this purity, which in spirit and faith we have from Christ and from the Sacraments that He instituted, the Christian is rightly said to be purer than snow, purer than the sun and the stars, even though the defilements of spirit and flesh cling to him. These are concealed and covered by the cleanness and purity of Christ, which we obtain by hearing the Word and by faith.”

source: vivacatholic.wordpress.com/2007/12/04/luther-and-the-concept-of-imputed-righteousness/

interesting.

Peace and blessings,
Julie

 

[Alix1912]

yeah…they are really a bit “unorthodox” on some things.

I found a copy of Luther’s teaching on imputed righteousness that teaches that our sins are concealed from God, and goes right along with what my pastors are teaching, so I’ll share below:

source: vivacatholic.wordpress.com/2007/12/04/luther-and-the-concept-of-imputed-righteousness/

interesting.

Peace and blessings,
Julie

Remember that not everything that Luther said or wrote is considered doctrine of the Lutheran Church. I’m going to have to pull out my catechism and read about what is actually confessed by the Lutheran Church about sins.

As you mentioned your church seems a bit unorthodox. Not using the prescribed Divine Services, and practicing open communion seems a bit odd to me.

 

[JonNC]

Hi Julie,

I just wanted to add the following:

we confess our sins to our gracious Father in heaven because we know and trust that Jesus has already paid the price for them and **will surely forgive us **

 

[Alix1912]

Jon,

Thanks for the clarification. I was going to read through my confessions again today to, the concept that we are automatically fogiven and God is blind to our sins is not what I was taught in confirmation. I love reading your responses because you have a great body of knowledge and are well spoken about it.

 

[Serap]

boy, it seems that being a Lutherin is a lot easier than being Catholic

The Catholic Church always makes me feel so guilty all the time. I go to Confession about once or twice a year and I always feel so much anxiety before I go.

 

[JonNC]

=Serap;7791953]boy, it seems that being a Lutherin is a lot easier than being Catholic

Gee, I don’t know about that. Sometimes for Lutherans, it is easy to fall into a “cheap grace” mindset, which is at least as dangerous as work righteousness. It is also easy for us to fall into a “protestant” mindset, instead of being at least confessional Lutheran.

The Catholic Church always makes me feel so guilty all the time. I go to Confession about once or twice a year and I always feel so much anxiety before I go.

I have heard other Catholics talk about this, and others say that confession is quite liberating from guilt and anxiety, as my experience has been as a Lutheran

Jon

 

[Serap]

Gee, I don’t know about that. Sometimes for Lutherans, it is easy to fall into a “cheap grace” mindset, which is at least as dangerous as work righteousness. It is also easy for us to fall into a “protestant” mindset, instead of being at least confessional Lutheran.

I have heard other Catholics talk about this, and others say that confession is quite liberating from guilt and anxiety, as my experience has been as a Lutheran

Jon

I’m kind of understanding where this “once saved always saved” mentality comes from. It’s just a different way of interpreting the bible.

Did Luther then believe this?

 

[JonNC]

I’m kind of understanding where this “once saved always saved” mentality comes from. It’s just a different way of interpreting the bible.

Did Luther then believe this?

No, Luther and Lutherans reject perseverence of saints. The confessions are clear about this. OSAS has its roots, from what I understand, in the Calvinist TULIP.

Jon