What's the difference between Mormons and Jehovah's witnesses?

[jesuspsr]

Hey, instead of bringing up more and more topics, why don’t you answer one of the 3 questions about the seamless theology of the JW that I gave you.

I find it to be typical jw tactics. Reflecting questions bby bombarding you with other topics.

God bless
jesus g

 

[ChristianAD]

I’ll never understand why anyone would give credibility to either religion. Both are rooted in anti-Catholicism, and assert themselves as the authoritative replacement. WHY is this trust given to 19th century organizations and people? What is the allure?

ANTI-CATHOLICISM…SHOULD WE BE CHRISITIANS OF JESUS CHRIST OR CATHOLICS OF THE POPE…YOU ARE NOT HONORING THE FATHER OR HIS SON…

I AM A STUDENT OF THE SCRIPTURES AND OF GOD’S CHOSEN PEOPLE THE ISRAELITES. I STUDY HOW THE ORIGINAL CHRISTIANS WORSHIP GOD, I USED TO BELIEVE WHAT HAPPENED 300 TO 400 YEARS AFTER THEY PASSED THAT YOU CALL CATHOLISM. I DON’T CLING TO A TITLE, NAME, OR ORGANIZATION. I CLING TO TRUTH. I GIVE CREDIBILITY TO THE SCRIPTURES. DOES IT MATTER WHERE THE TRUTH COMES FROM AS LONG AS IT IS TRUTH. PLEASE SOMEONE PROVE ONE SCRIPTURE I HAVE STATED AS FALSE.

1 Corinthians 15:20-28. What does this mean to you?

 

[Stephen_C]

ANTI-CATHOLICISM…SHOULD WE BE CHRISITIANS OF JESUS CHRIST OR CATHOLICS OF THE POPE…YOU ARE NOT HONORING THE FATHER OR HIS SON…

I AM A STUDENT OF THE SCRIPTURES AND OF GOD’S CHOSEN PEOPLE THE ISRAELITES. I STUDY HOW THE ORIGINAL CHRISTIANS WORSHIP GOD, I USED TO BELIEVE WHAT HAPPENED 300 TO 400 YEARS AFTER THEY PASSED THAT YOU CALL CATHOLISM. I DON’T CLING TO A TITLE, NAME, OR ORGANIZATION. I CLING TO TRUTH. I GIVE CREDIBILITY TO THE SCRIPTURES. DOES IT MATTER WHERE THE TRUTH COMES FROM AS LONG AS IT IS TRUTH. PLEASE SOMEONE PROVE ONE SCRIPTURE I HAVE STATED AS FALSE.

1 Corinthians 15:20-28. What does this mean to you?

So who’s Interpretation of scripture do you cling to? And on what authority does your Interpretation rings truth?

 

[pacloc]

Wow, you sound like you figured it all out by yourself there. Must feel good be so enlightened and taught by God, one of the elite on the narrow road. While for 2,000 years everyone else has been being added to the pile of death/ godlessness. Will you feel happy when you see all your fellow humans dying and suffering at armageddon, because they didn’t come to your realizations? Why don’t you start your own religion then? You need to save us instead of insulting us, leader.

But seriously, do you believe that you will go to Heaven? Or are you a paradise Earth guy?

PS, no one is going to state that a scripture from the Holy Bible is false, you and the JW are false. And I have given you 3 reasons why, and you refuse to respond to them.

 

[ChristianAD]

Of course the council of Nicea kind of settled the dispute regarding the divinity of Jesus. I know its difficult by pulling a verse here or these and building an argument for or against something, but doesn’t the Gospel of John pretty much say that Jesus is divine? If it didn’t, why do the JW’s need to change John 1? Who do you say that I am ?

Also, the JW’s believe the church went into heresy right after the death of the apostles. Does this make sense? The people directly taught by the apostles perverting the gospel? So, if this is true, then how can you trust the later councils that selected the books that would become the NT? Weren’t they full of heretics? You can read Justin Martyr, Clement, Polycarp, etc, etc and they must all be heretics?

You see, once you throw away Tradition, there is really no foundation to stand on. The Bible is a mirror of Tradition. Just read the history of how the selection of NT books was done, based on Tradition. So you now have a NT based Tradition, but someone later comes along and says, Wait, that tradition is not in the Bible. Not very logical. That’s the way I see it at least.

Catholicism was founded 300 to 400 years after Jesus and his disciples passed it is a new tradition they created not the tradition handed down by Jesus and his disciples…you need to read more of John it also states these scriptures from the words of Jesus. Not divine but in union with the Father. Just as a husband and wife are in union. Look at this scripture then I will show you what John truly reveals…

1 Corin 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Notice God is the head or above Christ…

John 13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

Truly, truly, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.

Jesus is telling you he is not greater than the Father who sent him…

John 3:16 & John 17:18
Just as you sent me forth into the world, I also sent them forth into the world

Lastly the world doesn’t know the Father…This is from Jesus

John 17:25 Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me.

People don’t even know nor use God’s name. This confuses people also the entire world hangs on to John 1:1, which even the disciples recognized him as the Son of God.

The only problem with this is where was Jesus before creation?
biblos.com/colossians/1-15.htm

 

[pacloc]

Are you kidding guy, please stop avoiding me. And quit misquoting the bible. John 13:16 is obviously talking about the apostles not being greater than Jesus. If anything verse 13 really does say that Jesus is equal to the Father by saying that he is Master and Lord and he might even be naming himself the “I am.” I don’t want to get into the debate about the “I Am” however.

I think this thread should be closed and this guy banned. He seems like trouble.

 

[Stephen_C]

Catholicism was founded 300 to 400 years after Jesus and his disciples passed it is a new tradition they created not the tradition handed down by Jesus and his disciples…you need to read more of John it also states these scriptures from the words of Jesus. Not divine but in union with the Father. Just as a husband and wife are in union. Look at this scripture then I will show you what John truly reveals…

1 Corin 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Notice God is the head or above Christ…

John 13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

Truly, truly, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.

Jesus is telling you he is not greater than the Father who sent him…

John 3:16 & John 17:18
Just as you sent me forth into the world, I also sent them forth into the world

Lastly the world doesn’t know the Father…This is from Jesus

John 17:25 Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me.

People don’t even know nor use God’s name. This confuses people also the entire world hangs on to John 1:1, which even the disciples recognized him as the Son of God.

The only problem with this is where was Jesus before creation?
biblos.com/colossians/1-15.htm

So by who’s authority do you proclaim the Catholic started 300 to 400 years after Christ?. And which is it 300, 400? We have folks that believe the Catholic Church started right after Trent, 1000, and 1850’s. So why would I believe your born on date over the others?

 

[ChristianAD]

Wow, you sound like you figured it all out by yourself there. Must feel good be so enlightened and taught by God, one of the elite on the narrow road. While for 2,000 years everyone else has been being added to the pile of death/ godlessness. Will you feel happy when you see all your fellow humans dying and suffering at armageddon, because they didn’t come to your realizations? Why don’t you start your own religion then? You need to save us instead of insulting us, leader.

But seriously, do you believe that you will go to Heaven? Or are you a paradise Earth guy?

PS, no one is going to state that a scripture from the Holy Bible is false, you and the JW are false. And I have given you 3 reasons why, and you refuse to respond to them.

I am giving you reasons to believe from the word of God, and you seem to have some kind of disgust for a particular religion and want me to answer questions that do not relate to scripture.

No I do not want to start a religion Jesus did that. I simply want to make his words clear to everyone…

But seriously, do you believe that you will go to Heaven? Or are you a paradise Earth guy?

I believe what Jesus believed in (His resurrection), what Abraham believed in when he was about give his son and God promised the seed of Jesus would come through Abraham’s begotten son, and the remaining scriptures that discuss what will happen here are a few below.

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

Read what Abraham stated regarding giving his son…
Hebrew 11:19…

Are you calling the scriptures a lie? What do you believe…the scriptures or the tradition you have been taught? Becareful what proceeds from your lips…

 

[ChristianAD]

So by who’s authority do you proclaim the Catholic started 300 to 400 years after Christ?. And which is it 300, 400? We have folks that believe the Catholic Church started right after Trent, 1000, and 1850’s. So why would I believe your born on date over the others?

Stephen do you realize you just ignored the most important information in the paragraph to defend why you believe in Catholicism. What is God’s name?

To answer your question I have no authority except the word of GOD. I am not trying to start a church. I just want people to read their bibles and develop a relationship with GOD, and not a priest, pastor, bishop…etc. Were you born a Catholic?

 

[pacloc]

You seem very very confused as to what the Church teaches, what JW teach, and what the Bible says. Why would I think that anything in the Bible is false and proclaim to be Christian? You never claimed to believe differently than the JW about their afterlife interpretations, so I figured you follow their beleifs.

No as far as your quotes about Abraham and Issac, you said I’m calling the bible a liar somewhere?? You don’t even say what I lied about.

You should be the one careful of your speech, claiming that Catholics don’t follow Christ or the Bible. That they are not on the narrow road. You should read Matt 5:22, about the danger of calling brothers in Christ fools.

Also, you stated that you would answer my 3 questions and even called them “important topics.” You asked me what was the significance of the Levites and I answered. You have now changed your mind on the “importance” of the topics.

One more thing, it seems that you are interested in knowing the Bible, which is a good thing. But you have to believe that you are not the first to feel that way, it is not humble to think your fellow man does not have the same feelings. Have you ever thought of the times and places where people can not read, do not have access to personal copies of any Bible, and do not possess commentary on scripture? People had to rely on the loving words of their priests to pass on the key points of the Gospel, mainly the Beatitudes. You have to have the faith that Yahweh and his Son preserved the Church, which he said would last to the end of times, through members of the Catholic Church. It is only logical.

 

[ChristianAD]

Are you kidding guy, please stop avoiding me. And quit misquoting the bible. John 13:16 is obviously talking about the apostles not being greater than Jesus. If anything verse 13 really does say that Jesus is equal to the Father by saying that he is Master and Lord and he might even be naming himself the “I am.” I don’t want to get into the debate about the “I Am” however.

I think this thread should be closed and this guy banned. He seems like trouble.

What?

1 COR 11:3But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

1 Corin 15:28 There are so many scriptures that show Jesus position in God’s Kingdom, what did it for me was the word prototokos…This is a very important word. I suggest you research this.

Pacloc, I apologize if I have came off inconsiderate, puffed up, as if I have all the answers. I am a peasant and student of the scriptures… I am very passionate about truth, and I know you are as well.

 

[ChristianAD]

I really hope that you are not insulting the saints in your silly, out of context quote of Zephaniah. It sounds as if you are saying that the JW are the people that God has purified their lips, because they all follow the exact same ideas. I hope you realize that the Catholic Church has always had unified beliefs that its members must accept. The difference being that the Church’s Dogma is purely scriptural and from ancient Christian History/Tradition; and the JW’s being from men in New York, USA, based on pyramids, visions, purposeful twisting of scripture, wanting to stand out as different.

And as far as the Levites, yes I know about the priesthood of the tribe of Levi. And I know where you are going with that, but you are traveling backwards through salvation history, and if you are going to travel backwards, you must go all the way backwards, not conveniently stop where you want. Do you realize that all the tribes were to have priests from their firstborn, but because of the sins of the israelites, the tribe of Levi was chosen? Also if you continue going back to Abraham, you notice the whole world would be made sons and daughters of him, and Noah too. And to further shy away from the priestly class of Levi, Jesus was made priest and he was from the tribe of Judah. This was to specifically show God’s choice, not a line of decent. And all of this doesn’t even matter as far as the chosen after Christ’s first coming, because now we are made members of God’s kingdom by our baptism, not because of Levi. Also, it was never taught that just because you were part of the tribe of Levi, you would go to heaven, and if not you go to paradise earth. JW don’t even believe that, so any significance of the “anointed” with the tribe of Levi is just pointless.

So to get back to my question, which really has nothing to do with priestly classes, when in “Christian History” was there a division between Heaven and Earth inhabitants? Some worthy to eat and drink Christ, and others not worthy because they are merely Paradise hopers. When in fact did the idea that Heaven and Earth having to be separate happen? The Church has always taught that in Christ’s second coming and the resurrection, that all things will be made new, and all of Earth will become part of Heaven.

I like you, but lets use scripture to back up our logic. Were they the first-born of the tribes of Israel Numbers 3:40-48… and what was there inheritance? My last question is was King David first-born?

 

[JHow]

But you cannot account for how the scriptures came about: which is oral tradition, as described in the scriptures.

Also, you are avoiding the fact that the early church that you desperately want to emulate did not worship in Saturday, nor did they view this as disrespect for the Sabbath, rather a respect for the eighth day, the resurrection.

Also, the Carholic church was not invented in the time if Constantine. This fails on doctrinal and historical grounds.

 

[ChristianAD]

I think this thread should be closed and this guy banned. He seems like trouble.

I just saw this comment. I have presented solid scripture prove them wrong. Not trying to cause trouble only people to pick up there bibles and read…

 

[KathleenGee]

ChristianAD…do you know in Matthew 27:52-53 when Christ died on the Cross, the people of the just came out of their graves and appeared to various people throughout the land of Israel???

Jesus broke the power of death. This in no way can be used to invalidate someone’s denomination, or perception we do not know Scripture or have any devotion to the Word of God.

 

[Aaron_Creagh]

NEITHER JW or LDS know who JESUS really IS…

If you don’t get God/Jesus/Holy Spirit right, then not much else REALLY MATTERS! It just all falls flat doesn’t it? :stretcher:

If you don’t know Jesus, then you don’t know God.

 

[ChristianAD]

But you cannot account for how the scriptures came about: which is oral tradition, as described in the scriptures.

Also, you are avoiding the fact that the early church that you desperately want to emulate did not worship in Saturday, nor did they view this as disrespect for the Sabbath, rather a respect for the eighth day, the resurrection.

Also, the Carholic church was not invented in the time if Constantine. This fails on doctrinal and historical grounds.

No but Constantine made Christianity the official religion of Rome. Dies Solis. Research my dear friend.

Was Peter in Rome? Who wrote the letter to the Romans?

 

[pacloc]

You have jumped around from topic to topic just making claims of knowing the Bible, while Catholics do not. Could you please look online or go out and buy a Catechism of the Catholic Church and point out where exactly that the Church is wrong. It would be a good read to see that what you are saying is very similar to what we believe. Now if you believe a lot of the JW doctrine, then you will not agree with what is written in the Catechism, or the Bible for that matter. If you remember, these arguements began because of your defense of the JW as being accurate teachers, so if you are disowning that idea, please let us know. It is very confusing for me to know what it is you have problems with in the Church’s theology.

 

[JHow]

No but Constantine made Christianity the official religion of Rome. Dies Solis. Research my dear friend.

Was Peter in Rome? Who wrote the letter to the Romans?

But you won’t answer my first point: the bible itself demonstrates that the source of all its teachings is an oral tradition from Christ to the apostles to the Church. How do you know therefore that the bible you love, and the interpretations your teachers have put on it are correct? This is not a question requiring more “research” but more reason. You cannot stand on the stool you claim to stand on.

 

[RebeccaJ]

ANTI-CATHOLICISM…SHOULD WE BE CHRISITIANS OF JESUS CHRIST OR CATHOLICS OF THE POPE…YOU ARE NOT HONORING THE FATHER OR HIS SON…

I AM A STUDENT OF THE SCRIPTURES AND OF GOD’S CHOSEN PEOPLE THE ISRAELITES. I STUDY HOW THE ORIGINAL CHRISTIANS WORSHIP GOD, I USED TO BELIEVE WHAT HAPPENED 300 TO 400 YEARS AFTER THEY PASSED THAT YOU CALL CATHOLISM. I DON’T CLING TO A TITLE, NAME, OR ORGANIZATION. I CLING TO TRUTH. I GIVE CREDIBILITY TO THE SCRIPTURES. DOES IT MATTER WHERE THE TRUTH COMES FROM AS LONG AS IT IS TRUTH. PLEASE SOMEONE PROVE ONE SCRIPTURE I HAVE STATED AS FALSE.

1 Corinthians 15:20-28. What does this mean to you?

:ehh:

Why would you follow ideas that arose in the 19th century, from the imagination of a few individuals?

You are using “scripture” that has been modified and reinterpreted to suit the purposes of an ORGANIZATION. I just wonder why.