What's the purpose of hell?

[TarkanAttila]

Why is it that some of us are able to learn and some of us are not? And why do the “unlearned” have to remain in ignorance for eternally? Are they incapable of learning? Is that what you are saying?

That is a good question - with many answers.

For one thing, some people do not learn because they do not want to. They may think they are “good enough” and “at least are not Al Capone” or somesuchthing, and they think that to be the epitome of goodness.

These sorts of people may or may not be misinformed by “bad example given by others, enslavement to one’s passions[cravings], assertion of a mistaken notion of autonomy of conscience[or, “and always let your conscience be your guide” thinking], rejection of the Church’s authority and her teaching, lack of conversion and of charity…” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1792).

“If - on the contrary - the ignorance is invincible, or the moral subject is not responsible for his erroneous judgment, the evil committed by the person cannot be imputed to him…” (CCC, 1793).

But, evil is still evil, even if we don’t know it to be so. If I kill an innocence, and think I have done good, for whatever reason, I must be taught, insofar as is possible, I am wrong, and I did wrong. Now we, we humans, we can only do so much. We can offer you logic, proofs, evidence, science, whatever. But you, my friend, you can always choose to doubt. You will have plenty of reason to do so - many of those reasons given above, and so many more.

But when you go to see God, God will not allow you to be ignorant any longer. Where we tiny humans may fail - as we do so often - God will not allow failure. Unless - and it is your choice - you refuse to believe you have done wrong.

If we are created to seek the good, then it logically follows that everyone is seeking the good as he or she understands it. That’s the point.

What makes you say that’s the point? A person can seek the good and still be wrong.

The point is getting to actual goodness, not what I think is good. Otherwise, is not goodness just what I think is good, and therefore meaningless to anyone else?

 

[oldcelt]

I think that a better question my be, what is the nature of hell? There does not seem to be any one answer in the Christian Holy writings.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I think that a better question my be, what is the nature of hell? There does not seem to be any one answer in the Christian Holy writings.

I have heard it is merely an eternal seperation from God.

A seperation that is self imposed by the rejection of graces offered to an individual.

None of this speaks to the purpose of hell. If there is a purpose, apparently it is not to rehabilitate anyone. It is punitive.

 

[Counterpoint]

Counterpoint:

If we are created to seek the good, then it logically follows that everyone is seeking the good as he or she understands it. That’s the point.

What makes you say that’s the point? A person can seek the good and still be wrong.

The point is getting to actual goodness, not what I think is good. Otherwise, is not goodness just what I think is good, and therefore meaningless to anyone else?

Because that is the point. Everyone is seeking the good as are you. Everyone is seeking love as are you. Everyone is seeking God as are you. Everyone is seeking happiness as are you.

 

[Counterpoint]

What is your understanding of the purpose of hell?

The purpose, according to traditional Christianity, is divine punishment or retribution.

 

[Counterpoint]

If there is a purpose, apparently it is not to rehabilitate anyone. It is punitive.

Bingo!

 

[Counterpoint]

It sounds like you want something only He can offer.

What is it you want? Where else could it have come from?

Ultimately, it is the same thing that you want and that everyone else does. I trust that God understands that.

 

[jochoa]

The purpose, according to traditional Christianity, is divine punishment or retribution.

For a bit further understanding, please consider Catechism #1057: “Hell’s principal punishment consists of eternal separation from God in whom alone man can have the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.”

Does the Course share an understanding of why God created Hell?

 

[GaryTaylor]

Counterpoint, hell is the moral prison self imposed by ones own consistent persistence vanity. You don’t have to believe in God to see it, look around at the self imposed prisons of the mind people put themselves in daily-weekly-yearly and sometimes always.

Since this is a self evident fact just by our prison population in the US riddled with every kind of vice imaginable, invisible hand-cuffs then I think we can find perspective.

Our American gods build prisons for them, moral prisons. What should we do? Should we love them all and let them all out? If there’s no God then what does he speaking for God say? What of justice? Love surely includes justice correctly applied?

 

[GaryTaylor]

So justice, according to the argument is obedience to the stronger? And admittedly the stronger moral gods[men] could be mistaken about their own interests in their command of justice? For example the botched lethal injection last week? Eternal punishment, yes? That was ordered by man, not god? And their must be obedience to justice?

So justice isn’t for the interest of the stronger when they do things that harm their own interest, such as the above repetitively botched death sentence’s? So the weaker are sentenced to the stronger interest even if its detrimental to the interest of the stronger?

 

[drac16]

My perspective may not be the same as that of a christian, but I’ll do my best to answer that question from a muslim’s perspective.

The purpose of Hell is to punish the unrepentant evil-doers. Allah azza wa jal must punish these people because His sense of justice is perfect. Is He capable of saving everyone? sure, but there would be no justice in that. One would have to, as it were, emasculate the Holiness and Justice of Allah to believe that He can/does treat righteousness and sin as though they are on the same level. They are not equal.

Hell is not a popular doctrine, but the Qur’an doesn’t start with catering to the feelings of men-- it starts with God’s Glory.

 

[TarkanAttila]

Ultimately, it is the same thing that you want and that everyone else does. I trust that God understands that.

I believe He does. I also believe there are many people who want the good, but are too lazy, too cynical, too tied to this world, too greedy, to believe real good exists.

I re-read a children’s novel called “The Penultimate Peril” not long ago. The author seems to make it a point in his writing that good and evil are often difficult to tell apart. Sometimes even the authorities that are supposed to be good are evil.

So he settles for being “noble enough” - for, while doing evil things, not doing all evil things.

And I can understand this point of view of Mr. Snicket (or, rather, Mr. Handler), for your point-of-view is, unfortunately, rather naive in the face of the fact of evil. The kidnappers in South Sudan - are they trying to get the same thing as you, ultimately? I do not think it wise to say so.

 

[GaryTaylor]

So the weaker are sentenced to the stronger interest even if its detrimental to the interest of the stronger?

“chirp” “chirp”

Counterpoint…the purpose is “JUSTICE”. Whats your proposal for the godless world with good/love/justice? You do see the illusion of ego you’ve created, no?

 

[hansard]

No purpose to it at all.
Why punish a soul for all eternity? Isn’t there a point where enough is enough? Are there sins that require such punishing by an all-merciful god? If people call out for god’s mercy, does he not hear them? If he does, is he so eternally cruel as to deny them for all eternity? After all, their sins were temporal, yet the punishment is eternal. It hardly makes sense.

It’s a medieval idea designed to ensure compliance and subservience.

I work in a large-ish Catholic high school in Australia, and Hell and Purgatory are never mentioned. All teaching programs are approved by the Bishop, I must add. Even the senior clergy shy away from the idea. If Hell is such an important part of theology (as in, important to avoid it), why deny it in our teaching?

As to the idea that “people choose Hell by rejecting God” (so often expressed around here)–well, I’ve seldom heard anything more ridiculous. People *choose *such a fate? Rubbish.
If Hell exists, God sends them there, actively, willingly and eternally. People are sent to hell by God’s will, not their own. Those who seek to remove God from the equation are being dishonest.

(This is not to justify a life of sin - we all stand or fall on our merits or deficiencies - but to assert my belief that a time of purification probably applies to all sinners).

 

[littlestsouls2]

If you are truly seeking an answer, read something like this:

catholictreasury.info/books/everlasting_life/

The author deals with topics like:

• The eternity of Hell
• The nature of mortal sin
• The immutablility of the will after death
• The mercy of God towards the damned (who are punished less than they deserve)

 

[Vico]

No purpose to it at all.
Why punish a soul for all eternity? Isn’t there a point where enough is enough? Are there sins that require such punishing by an all-merciful god? If people call out for god’s mercy, does he not hear them? If he does, is he so eternally cruel as to deny them for all eternity? After all, their sins were temporal, yet the punishment is eternal. It hardly makes sense.

It’s a medieval idea designed to ensure compliance and subservience.

I work in a large-ish Catholic high school in Australia, and Hell and Purgatory are never mentioned. All teaching programs are approved by the Bishop, I must add. Even the senior clergy shy away from the idea. If Hell is such an important part of theology (as in, important to avoid it), why deny it in our teaching?

As to the idea that “people choose Hell by rejecting God” (so often expressed around here)–well, I’ve seldom heard anything more ridiculous. People *choose *such a fate? Rubbish.
If Hell exists, God sends them there, actively, willingly and eternally. People are sent to hell by God’s will, not their own. Those who seek to remove God from the equation are being dishonest.

(This is not to justify a life of sin - we all stand or fall on our merits or deficiencies - but to assert my belief that a time of purification probably applies to all sinners).

The Catechism explains that “hell” is a self imposed state of self-exclusion from God to which the Devil and his angels are cast and the unjust descend. (It is not defined by the Church as a location.) CCC 1033 … This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called “hell.”

 

[GaryTaylor]

No purpose to it at all…

Does that sound like God to you?

Why punish a soul for all eternity?.

Justice has been the repeat, with no response.

Isn’t there a point where enough is enough?.

Then the same should hold for Heaven?

Are there sins that require such punishing by an all-merciful god? I.

Read two posts back

f people call out for god’s mercy, does he not hear them?

Of course, but we are on the “justice” part of the story?

If he does, is he so eternally cruel as to deny them for all eternity?

Yes, the 'death sentence" is really truly death in so far as an eternal soul could be understood as dead.

After all, their sins were temporal, yet the punishment is eternal. It hardly makes sense.

Actually its the commandments, which you temporally have time to clean up your mess, justice again, and surely you’ll agree its not only YOUR selfish sins, but how you effected everyone around you? The idea is arrive at eternal life by passing through a temporal realm, not be lost in its foolishness and vanity and negatively affect as many as you can?

It’s a medieval idea designed to ensure compliance and subservience.

Like the blotched death sentence last week where the curtains needed to be closed due to “barbarism”. Yes we have evolved into some piece of work. Almost where we can rise ourselves to royal blood of the gods.

I work in a large-ish Catholic high school in Australia, and Hell and Purgatory are never mentioned. All teaching programs are approved by the Bishop, I must add. Even the senior clergy shy away from the idea. If Hell is such an important part of theology (as in, important to avoid it), why deny it in our teaching?

How did you make that jump to don’t teach it, to denial, then accredit all that to the Bishop. Uh no.

As to the idea that “people choose Hell by rejecting God” (so often expressed around here)–well, I’ve seldom heard anything more ridiculous. People *choose *such a fate? Rubbish.

Oh they do ask the heroin addict or alcoholic who thinks god is in the little bag or bottle.

If Hell exists, God sends them there, actively, willingly and eternally. People are sent to hell by God’s will, not their own.

So God makes the addict worship the false God in the bag?

Those who seek to remove God from the equation are being dishonest.

Such as who?

(This is not to justify a life of sin - we all stand or fall on our merits or deficiencies - but to assert my belief that a time of purification probably applies to all sinners).

How you managed to land on the green here is a mystery, but OK.

 

[hansard]

My view is this: believe it if you want to. I don’t, and never will.

I can’t definitively say that there’s *no *purpose to Hell, I can only argue against such an idea and why it doesn’t make sense.

I can also argue against the platitudes and guesswork which typically cloud such discussions.

I can see a clear and compelling purpose to Purgatory, but not to Hell.

 

[littlestsouls2]

No purpose to it at all.
Why punish a soul for all eternity? Isn’t there a point where enough is enough? Are there sins that require such punishing by an all-merciful god? If people call out for god’s mercy, does he not hear them? If he does, is he so eternally cruel as to deny them for all eternity? After all, their sins were temporal, yet the punishment is eternal. It hardly makes sense.

It’s a medieval idea designed to ensure compliance and subservience.

I work in a large-ish Catholic high school in Australia, and Hell and Purgatory are never mentioned. All teaching programs are approved by the Bishop, I must add. Even the senior clergy shy away from the idea. If Hell is such an important part of theology (as in, important to avoid it), why deny it in our teaching?

As to the idea that “people choose Hell by rejecting God” (so often expressed around here)–well, I’ve seldom heard anything more ridiculous. People *choose *such a fate? Rubbish.
If Hell exists, God sends them there, actively, willingly and eternally. People are sent to hell by God’s will, not their own. Those who seek to remove God from the equation are being dishonest.

(This is not to justify a life of sin - we all stand or fall on our merits or deficiencies - but to assert my belief that a time of purification probably applies to all sinners).

Garrigou-Lagrange has written a helpful book that deals with some of the objections you have raised (see Ch 3 in particular): catholictreasury.info/books/everlasting_life/

Here is an excerpt:

“Suffering is proportioned, not to the duration of sin, but to its gravity. A deed of assassination, which lasts a few minutes, merits death or life imprisonment. A momentary act of betrayal merits permanent exile. But mortal sin has a gravity without measure. Further, it remains as a habitual disorder, in itself irreparable, which merits punishment without end.”

If those who die in unrepented mortal sin go to Hell, as Our Lord, the Church and the saints tell us, we must proclaim this truth. It would be gravely unjust to do otherwise.

The theology that is taught in many Catholic schools in Australia - and I say this as a fellow Australian - is a cause for great concern.

 

[GaryTaylor]

My view is this: believe it if you want to. I don’t, and never will.

I can’t definitively say that there’s *no *purpose to Hell, I can only argue against such an idea and why it doesn’t make sense.

I can also argue against the platitudes and guesswork which typically cloud such discussions.

I can see a clear and compelling purpose to Purgatory, but not to Hell.

Right, but you haven’t addressed the issue of justice, man does not want to serve God, apparent right here on this thread. Why would God deny man the free-will he gave them to begin with? Isn’t it a matter of giving them what they want? Surely God knows who was ignorant and who truly denied and despised Him?