Whats wrong with female altar girls?

[Strummer]

So am I to believe that your parishes have a set, finite number of altar server positions and these pernicious, conniving and unorthodox girls are stealing these precious few positions from the boys? And this, THIS is why there is such a dire shortage of vocations? Talk about bending reality to fit one’s preconcieved prejudices!
Many here seem to not like girl altar servers because…well, because they don’t like girl altar servers. Yes, the Vatican has stated that boy altar servers are nice as they uphold a pleasant small-t tradition. However, I have yet to see where the Vatican has disallowed girl altar servers. Surely, if the situation were as dire as many her suggest, they would be on the case, no? And yet we hear…nothing. Hmm. More tacit support for my claim that this anti-girl movement is little more than personal vendettas not sanctioned by the Church?
I simply do not understand how people can seek to injure the parish community for the sake of their personal gender biases. Jesus did not say, “Let the children come unto me, uh, just the boys that is.” No, he welcomed them all.

 

[Strummer]

If altar girls are such a good idea, why doesn’t the Pope use them. Do you think that the Pope doesn’t care about the spiritual welfare of the girls in Rome?

I’m sorry but your argument is extremely flawed. If we are to take the Pope’s behavior as our example then I must ask why has he not prohibited female altar servers, if it is such an egregious affront? Do you think that the Pope doesn’t care that some boys will see girls serving and not think it’s anything special after all?

So is the Pope himself being shortsighted on this matter?

No, he’s being politic as he knows there are whiners, such as exemplified here, who would be up in arms were he to stray too far from the small-t traditions. It is nothing new to see institutional leaders being far, far more circumspect than the institution itself allows in order to keep the peace. Let’s face it, liberals may whine and complain and argue but conservatives are a far more whiny bunch who will simply take their ball and go home if they don’t get their way.

 

[netmilsmom]

I simply do not understand how people can seek to injure the parish community for the sake of their personal gender biases. Jesus did not say, “Let the children come unto me, uh, just the boys that is.” No, he welcomed them all.

Um, excuse me but how in the world can I have a “personal gender bias” when…

1. I am of that gender
2. I am the mother of only girls

How do you interpret the above scripture quote as being about Altar servers?
Bringing children to Christ is about education and living His example, not Altar serving.

And why is serving on the Altar any less important than singing in the choir? Both give praise and glory to God.

 

[netmilsmom]

I’m sorry but your argument is extremely flawed. If we are to take the Pope’s behavior as our example then I must ask why has he not prohibited female altar servers, if it is such an egregious affront? Do you think that the Pope doesn’t care that some boys will see girls serving and not think it’s anything special after all?

No, he’s being politic as he knows there are whiners, such as exemplified here, who would be up in arms were he to stray too far from the small-t traditions. It is nothing new to see institutional leaders being far, far more circumspect than the institution itself allows in order to keep the peace. Let’s face it, liberals may whine and complain and argue but conservatives are a far more whiny bunch who will simply take their ball and go home if they don’t get their way.

In accord with the cited instructions of the Holy See such an authorization may not, in any way, exclude men or, in particular, boys from service at the altar, nor require that priests of the diocese would make use of female altar servers, since “it will always be very appropriate to follow the noble tradition of having boys serve at the altar” (Circular Letter to the Presidents of Episcopal Conference, March 15, 1994, no. 2). Indeed, the obligation to support groups of altar boys will always remain, not least of all due to the well known assistance that such programs have provided since time immemorial in encouraging future priestly vocations (cf. ibid*.*)

				   With respect to whether the practice of women serving at the   altar would truly be of pastoral advantage in the local pastoral   situation, it is perhaps helpful to recall that the non-ordained   faithful do not have a right to service at the altar, rather   they are capable of being admitted to such service by the Sacred   Pastors (cf. Circular Letter to the Presidents of Episcopal Conferences,   March 15, 1994, no. 4, cf. also can 228, §1, Interdicasterial   Instruction ***[Esslesiae   de mysterio](http://www.adoremus.org/Instruction-lay-ministry.html)****, *August 15, 1997, no. 4, see *Notitiae   *34 [1998] 9-42). Therefore, in the event that Your Excellency   found it opportune to authorize service of women at the altar,   it would remain important to explain clearly to the faithful   the nature of this innovation, lest confusion might be introduced,   thereby hampering the development of priestly vocations.

 

[netmilsmom]

Let’s face it, liberals may whine and complain and argue but conservatives are a far more whiny bunch who will simply take their ball and go home if they don’t get their way.

How does any Catholic “take their ball and go home”?

 

[anamchara]

I see no problem with girl altar servers and feel strongly that it’s important to plant seeds in the hearts of both young men and women by bringing them closer to the Holy Spirit through serving our Lord in this very special way. I will be training altar servers at my own parish and have already received an interest from both sexes including my own daughter and there is no way on Gods green earth that I would look into a young womens and tell her “oh sorry honey only boys” this is backward thinking IMHO, sorry to offend. My hope is this backward thinking is rare in the Catholic church.

I have noticed there is about three or four of you, not sure if I have that number right, on this thread who attend the same parish which does not allow girl altar servers. I think it’s wonderful that you have found this parish and it sounds very healthy as you’ve expressed several times, your pride in this thriving parish. But I think you are making a mistake by assuming to know what God really wants for us and how he calls each one of us to serve. I find this type of thinking is for people with a very small concept of how the Holy Spirit works through us. If your called to be a priest or a sister the Holy Spirit is going to bring you in, regardless if your serving or not. I feel we need to have faith and believe in a bigger God.


Anyway, good luck with this perfect Parish of yours

 

[E.E.N.S]

But I think you are making a mistake by assuming to know what God really wants…

Could you possibly be making the same mistake? Especially considering that the Church has not allowed female altar servers up until lately, and that was only in light of the abuses that were taking place - much like Moses and allowing divorce; “[Jesus] saith to them: Because Moses by reason of the hardness of your heart permitted you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.” (Matt 19:8)

 

[netmilsmom]

I see no problem with girl altar servers and feel strongly that it’s important to plant seeds in the hearts of both young men and women by bringing them closer to the Holy Spirit through serving our Lord in this very special way. I will be training altar servers at my own parish and have already received an interest from both sexes including my own daughter and there is no way on Gods green earth that I would look into a young womens and tell her “oh sorry honey only boys” this is backward thinking IMHO, sorry to offend. My hope is this backward thinking is rare in the Catholic church.

I feel that it is very important to plant seeds in the hearts of both young men and young women. However, like you I am also the mother of girls and I know that the Vatican would prefer boys over girls serving at the Altar. Unlike you, I will listen to what the Vatican wants over what my daughters want. While you may not be willing to hurt your daughter’s psyche by telling her that her place is in the choir, I am proud that my my wonderful Pastor, may God Bless him and give him long life, understands that our girls choir is also serving the Lord. As do I.

If you think that it’s backward, perhaps a letter to the Vatican stating that they should be encouraging all priests to use Altar Girls, might be in order. Until then, make sure you reread this…
" With respect to whether the practice of women serving at the altar would truly be of pastoral advantage in the local pastoral situation, it is perhaps helpful to recall that the non-ordained faithful do not have a right to service at the altar, rather they are capable of being admitted to such service by the Sacred Pastors"

But I think you are making a mistake by assuming to know what God really wants for us and how he calls each one of us to serve. I find this type of thinking is for people with a very small concept of how the Holy Spirit works through us.

Thanks for your advice, but I am not a Protestant and will trust the Vatican on understanding what God wants. The Vatican wants boys but is allowing girls, not demanding them of any priest. The Vatican is saying that girls may be utilized but not as a replacement for boys

If your called to be a priest or a sister the Holy Spirit is going to bring you in, regardless if your serving or not. I feel we need to have faith and believe in a bigger God.

Which God would that be? The god of Us or the God of the One Holy and Apostolic Church?

Anyway, good luck with this perfect Parish of yours

Our parish has no need for “Luck”.
And thank the Good Lord above, we are seeding our Diocese with priests born and raised here. Perhaps you will be so blessed as to get one.

 

[mikew262]

I see no problem with girl altar servers and feel strongly that it’s important to plant seeds in the hearts of both young men and women by bringing them closer to the Holy Spirit through serving our Lord in this very special way. I will be training altar servers at my own parish and have already received an interest from both sexes including my own daughter and there is no way on Gods green earth that I would look into a young womens and tell her “oh sorry honey only boys” this is backward thinking IMHO, sorry to offend. My hope is this backward thinking is rare in the Catholic church.

I have noticed there is about three or four of you, not sure if I have that number right, on this thread who attend the same parish which does not allow girl altar servers. I think it’s wonderful that you have found this parish and it sounds very healthy as you’ve expressed several times, your pride in this thriving parish. But I think you are making a mistake by assuming to know what God really wants for us and how he calls each one of us to serve. I find this type of thinking is for people with a very small concept of how the Holy Spirit works through us. If your called to be a priest or a sister the Holy Spirit is going to bring you in, regardless if your serving or not. I feel we need to have faith and believe in a bigger God.


Anyway, good luck with this perfect Parish of yours

Well said!

 

[E.E.N.S]

I feel that it is very important to plant seeds in the hearts of both young men and young women. However, like you I am also the mother of girls and I know that the Vatican would prefer boys over girls serving at the Altar. Unlike you, I will listen to what the Vatican wants over what my daughters want. While you may not be willing to hurt your daughter’s psyche by telling her that her place is in the choir, I am proud that my my wonderful Pastor, may God Bless him and give him long life, understands that our girls choir is also serving the Lord. As do I.

If you think that it’s backward, perhaps a letter to the Vatican stating that they should be encouraging all priests to use Altar Girls, might be in order. Until then, make sure you reread this…
" With respect to whether the practice of women serving at the altar would truly be of pastoral advantage in the local pastoral situation, it is perhaps helpful to recall that the non-ordained faithful do not have a right to service at the altar, rather they are capable of being admitted to such service by the Sacred Pastors"

Thanks for your advice, but I am not a Protestant and will trust the Vatican on understanding what God wants. The Vatican wants boys but is allowing girls, not demanding them of any priest. The Vatican is saying that girls may be utilized but not as a replacement for boys

Which God would that be? The god of Us or the God of the One Holy and Apostolic Church?

Our parish has no need for “Luck”.
And thank the Good Lord above, we are seeding our Diocese with priests born and raised here. Perhaps you will be so blessed as to get one.

Well said!

 

[Brendan]

II would look into a young womens and tell her “oh sorry honey only boys” this is backward thinking IMHO, sorry to offend. My hope is this backward thinking is rare in the Catholic church.

Did you happen to read earlier in the thread that the Vatican itself has only altar boys. If your parish went on a pilgrimage to Rome and your pastor wanted to say Mass in one of the chapels in St. Peter’s, your daughter would not be permitted as an altar server.

This was true under both Pope John Paul II and now with Pope Benedict.

Do you consider the Pope to be “backward thinking” in this matter.

You might also check out the links I posted earlier where the Vatican allows any priest to decline the use of girls for altar service. What is really interesting is the Vatican was also clear that a bishop could not force a priest to use altar girls.

So if a visting priest came, he could , with full Vatican approval, choose only boys to be his servers and no one could tell him otherwise.

Is the Vatican being “backward thinking” when it allows that?

 

[mikew262]

Do you consider the Pope to be “backward thinking” in this matter.

Possibly. This is not a matter of faith or morals, so it’s quite possible the Pope is a little off target on this one.

 

[netmilsmom]

Possibly. This is not a matter of faith or morals, so it’s quite possible the Pope is a little off target on this one.

Huh?

 

[Brendan]

Possibly. This is not a matter of faith or morals, so it’s quite possible the Pope is a little off target on this one.

And if I was supposed to follow either you or P. Benedict on this matter, why should I choose you??

 

[Julianna]

Possibly. This is not a matter of faith or morals, so it’s quite possible the Pope is a little off target on this one.

yes, just “a little”, but mike…as always you are so kind. I don’t see the big hullabaloo over female altar servers. If you don’t like it, go to a traditional EDIT parish. Geez louise…how simple.

 

[Karianne]

In the “logical” sense, there is nothing wrong with female altar servers. What I object to is that one more thing that had been uniquely Catholic (men only on the altar) has now become just like every other church on the face of the Earth. This started with the radical feminist movement when women DEMANDED absolute equality with their male counterparts, not taking into consideration at all that men and women are NOT the same. One isn’t better than the other; they’re just not the same. I frown on men taking on women’s roles and women taking on men’s roles.

I’m a creature of tradition and I like things to stay as they are. When Vatican II came along, I felt betrayed - like my church was caving in to what was “popular.” Fortunately, the church I attend, while adhering to the new Vatican II protocal (including altar “girls”), continues to be as conservative as possible without going over the line. We don’t have guitars, dancing, clowns or any of the other nonsense some churches insert into their Masses. I’ve adapted to the Novus Ordo Mass because it’s done with respect and reverence at my church. I’ve even gotten acclimated to women on the altar (though I’ll never really LIKE it).

I know that it’s annoying that just when you get comfortable with the rules they change, and if there’s one thing that we want to remain the same it would be our Church.
However, the role for women is changing, more is expected of them now than ever, so it’s important that the Church keep up with the times.
In my personal opinion, the men who do not approve of Girl Servers are the ones who want to keep all the glory for themselves.
In Christ, we are not female and male, and I like it like that!!!

 

[anamchara]

Unlike you, I will listen to what the Vatican wants over what my daughters want.

You are accusing me of listening to what my daughter wants over the Vatican,this is interesting. I believe the last I looked girls are allowed to serve, so how am I putting my daughter first and Vatican second?

While you may not be willing to hurt your daughter’s psyche by telling her that her place is in the choir, I am proud that my my wonderful Pastor, may God Bless him and give him long life, understands that our girls choir is also serving the Lord. As do I.

Like I said, I’m very happy you have found a parish that meets your needs, I’m sure your daughter has a wonderful singing voice. I don’t think anyone is saying that your daughter is not serving the Lord, I agree she most certainly is but it is different to serve at the table of Christ, there is no getting around this. We just have to disagree on that subject.

If you think that it’s backward, perhaps a letter to the Vatican stating that they should be encouraging all priests to use Altar Girls, might be in order.

You got caught up in the “backward” comment didn’t you? I would have become offended if someone called me backward as well. I wouldn’t write a letter like that because I don’t think I need to. I think there is plenty of priests who do use Altar girls. A parish like your is rare, or this is what I’d like to believe anyway.

" With respect to whether the practice of women serving at the altar would truly be of pastoral advantage in the local pastoral situation, it is perhaps helpful to recall that the non-ordained faithful do not have a right to service at the altar, rather they are capable of being admitted to such service by the Sacred Pastors"

I appreciate the reference but can you give me a link so I can read the whole thing?

Thanks for your advice, but I am not a Protestant and will trust the Vatican on understanding what God wants. The Vatican wants boys but is allowing girls, not demanding them of any priest. The Vatican is saying that girls may be utilized but not as a replacement for boys

No one on here so far that I remember who is pro-altar girls is promoting replacing boys for girls. You just made my point, the Vatican “is allowing girls” so where is the problem?

Which God would that be? The god of Us or the God of the One Holy and Apostolic Church?

Aww now your just getting nasty, this wasn’t even necessary

Our parish has no need for “Luck”.
And thank the Good Lord above, we are seeding our Diocese with priests born and raised here. Perhaps you will be so blessed as to get one.

If you and one other parish in your diocese is the only one that doesn’t allow girls as you stated in an another post, then I think you might need some luck.

I wish you and your parish well.

 

[Karianne]

I’m sorry but your argument is extremely flawed. If we are to take the Pope’s behavior as our example then I must ask why has he not prohibited female altar servers, if it is such an egregious affront? Do you think that the Pope doesn’t care that some boys will see girls serving and not think it’s anything special after all?

No, he’s being politic as he knows there are whiners, such as exemplified here, who would be up in arms were he to stray too far from the small-t traditions. It is nothing new to see institutional leaders being far, far more circumspect than the institution itself allows in order to keep the peace. Let’s face it, liberals may whine and complain and argue but conservatives are a far more whiny bunch who will simply take their ball and go home if they don’t get their way.

Well said, Strummer. On the other hand sometimes I feel very sorry for the traditionalists because they’re actually frightened of the changes. Since the Pope fails to conform to their wishes they actually think that the Pope is wrong!
They become the Cafeteria Catholics they like to criticize so much!

 

[netmilsmom]

yes, just “a little”, but mike…as always you are so kind. I don’t see the big hullabaloo over female altar servers. If you don’t like it, go to a trad parish. Geez louise…how simple.

Geez louise, in some places they are impossible to find.
Are you encouraging an SSPX parish? Because in some areas those are the only “trad parishes” to be had.

Cruise around the Roamin Catholic sites for San Diego, San Francisco and LA. Hard pressed to find a “trad parish”. Hard pressed to find a mass that is anywhere near as reverent as a Lutheran service.

 

[Brendan]

I know that it’s annoying that just when you get comfortable with the rules they change, and if there’s one thing that we want to remain the same it would be our Church.!!

That is my hope for the future. The fact that the Pope put restrictions on when altar girls can be used. So the rules MAY change, but probably NOT in the way you are expecting

Our parish has 6 men in the seminary, and generally has 1 ordained to the priesthood each year or so.

These are all men who are products of an all male altar boy cadre and have seen it’s advantages.

Several of the men from our parish now are priests in parishes and now have all male altar service.

When you combine that with the other like minded parishes in the diocese, namely the ones who are producing all the vocations make up a large percentage of the soon to be priests.

So there is a lot of hope for the future.

Karianne, how many men does YOUR parish?

Since a vocation is a call from God, why does God seem so interested in calling men from parishes like ours?