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cpayne
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Good point.
It’s funny—if I were to go back in my life a few years, I’d be arguing that Joyce Meyer was completely correct in everything, and Catholics were barely even Christians. Funny how God reverses things sometimes. :whacky:
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mdcpensive1
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guanophore
Guest
I love JM. I think she has a great witness, ministry, and teaching style. She is Anti-sacramental, but it rarely shows in her teachings. Most of stuff I have heard of hers is excellent.
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guanophore
Guest
i have never heard joyce teach anything like this.
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cpayne
Guest
True—as I mentioned earlier, she does not major on most of the things other Word of Faith ministers major on. However, I would stick with my point, which was that even if not directly stated, it is at least implicit. And I HAVE heard it directly stated (not from Meyer, though, as you said).
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guanophore
Guest
That was a reference to prosperity gospel. joyce does not teach that.
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why_me
Guest
Joyce Meyer’s gospel is pro-capitalist. She attempts to help individuals trying to make it in a capitalist world. This attempt is both at an emotional and at an economic level as people need to gain confidence to make it or be successful economically. Joyce’s message is one of self-interest and individualism. It is very American.
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Jeremiah77
Guest
Hi, I came across this thread and just had to respond. I have watched Joyce Meyers off and on for years. I have also been in the Catholic Church for years. I have seen good Catholics and I have seen good Protestants. I have seen devoted followers from both sides and I have seen some who are not so devoted in both camps.
As I was reading this it seemed to me that the people who were criticizing had never even watched her speak. She is not about ‘making money’ or ‘being successful’. She is about being the best you can be IN THE LORD. It is ALWAYS about Jesus with her and she is very humble to admit her mistakes and be real with people, unlike some other leaders I have seen. ALL the glory goes to GOD and yes, she will add some humor from time to time. In all the messages I have seen, I have still never heard her talk about money or being prosperous (and I’ve seen many messages).
My suggestion would be to be very careful about judging others. Isn’t that God’s job? I would not want to be the one to answer to that with God someday saying I had critiqued one of his children severely who was out there trying to help people come to Christ. That is not our job. Judgment is God’s job and only God’s.
As I was reading this it seemed to me that the people who were criticizing had never even watched her speak. She is not about ‘making money’ or ‘being successful’. She is about being the best you can be IN THE LORD. It is ALWAYS about Jesus with her and she is very humble to admit her mistakes and be real with people, unlike some other leaders I have seen. ALL the glory goes to GOD and yes, she will add some humor from time to time. In all the messages I have seen, I have still never heard her talk about money or being prosperous (and I’ve seen many messages).
My suggestion would be to be very careful about judging others. Isn’t that God’s job? I would not want to be the one to answer to that with God someday saying I had critiqued one of his children severely who was out there trying to help people come to Christ. That is not our job. Judgment is God’s job and only God’s.
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humble_maid
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I must admit that I listened to her tape on ‘how to defeat satan’ and read her book, ‘the battlefield of the mind’. These were truly therapeutic spiritually and psychologically. It taught me that we can get past our sufferings if we understand how the mind works. She is like a religious psychologist. She uses language we believers in Christ understand; she also uses alot of biblical illustrations to make her point so that we can learn that most of our healing comes from these words and of course prayer and intercession(for catholics anyway).
I was given this book and tape from my sister who found healing in them. I will also confess that it helped me to fight my fears and gain strength; but it must be said that it is through the loving intercession of the Blessed Mother, whom Jesus had entrusted me to in my time of great suffering, that helped me the most. She has brought me closer to her Son Our Lord. She is Blessed throughout all ages.
God Bless
I was given this book and tape from my sister who found healing in them. I will also confess that it helped me to fight my fears and gain strength; but it must be said that it is through the loving intercession of the Blessed Mother, whom Jesus had entrusted me to in my time of great suffering, that helped me the most. She has brought me closer to her Son Our Lord. She is Blessed throughout all ages.
God Bless
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Bob_Crowley
Guest
I’ve got a couple of her books, but I’ve never really sat down and watched her speak. I suppose being hard of hearing has a bit to do with this, plus I have a bit of an Australian aversion to American style hype.
I don’t really have a problem with her, and I find generally she mainly seems to be about encouraging people. She did have severe problems in life, assuming she’s telling the truth, and has had a long battle to overcome them. So when she speaks about struggle, she writes and speaks from personal experience.
Like most of these preachers, there’s good and bad about them. They may teach 90% truth, with 10% questionable material or heresy. So it’s up to us to be a bit selective about what we learn. I could say the same thing about Billy Graham, and most of the other better known Protestant evangelists and writers.
In fact, it’s a commentary on Catholicism that we are not very evangelical. We’re letting the Protestants do it all, and then complaining that we’re losing Catholics in South America for example.
I don’t really have a problem with her, and I find generally she mainly seems to be about encouraging people. She did have severe problems in life, assuming she’s telling the truth, and has had a long battle to overcome them. So when she speaks about struggle, she writes and speaks from personal experience.
Like most of these preachers, there’s good and bad about them. They may teach 90% truth, with 10% questionable material or heresy. So it’s up to us to be a bit selective about what we learn. I could say the same thing about Billy Graham, and most of the other better known Protestant evangelists and writers.
In fact, it’s a commentary on Catholicism that we are not very evangelical. We’re letting the Protestants do it all, and then complaining that we’re losing Catholics in South America for example.
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peary
Guest
I actually enjoy listening to Joel Osteen. He has a great message.
As a Christian, I believe that God desires to bless us - BUT - and here’s the catch - I don’t find anything in the Gospel that even comes close to the “prosperity” message preached by many TVevangelists, Osteen included. Rather, as a Catholic, I believe in the words of Jesus: “Take up your cross and follow me.” To me, Jesus is telling us that we will never be sheltered from the pitfalls, dangers, and experiences of life. What God promises to make us prosper in is holiness and saintliness, and He does this through sanctifying grace, not money or physical comforts. Osteen’s approach seems to go back to the Norman Vincent Peale’s philosophy on how to get along with and influence people which goes back to the 1930s.
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mdcpensive1
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It is funny that I am replying to a thread on Joyce Meyers when she lives a few miles from me.
I see she is a person that is convinced of her convictions. That is good if they are the true convictions. I have thought about this and see her in the light of the New Testament where Judaizers or others were going around the places St. Paul did and telling the gentiles / Greeks what the gospel really was. St. Paul and others had to come to correct their teachings because they didn’t have the fullness of the understanding of truth.
This is nothing against Joyce Meyer personally but she does preach a different gospel and yes, I have heard her speak. Some of it is very good and some not. She doesn’t have it right about salvation for one.
Her gospel does not include the priesthood, sacraments, the ongoing sacrifice on the altar, forgiveness of sins by a priest, but I am not sure about her belief in baptism. She does not have the guarantee of not preaching falsehoods like the Catholic Church was given by Christ. She may be a holy person, probably more than I am but that does not give her the advantage of making a church that is supposedly better than the one Christ established. No one can do that even though many try believing that they are correct.
The Holy Spirit can and does work through her and she has helped many. It is a shame that she does not have the fullness of the faith and the ability to receive more of God’s graces through the sacraments.
mdcpensive1
I see she is a person that is convinced of her convictions. That is good if they are the true convictions. I have thought about this and see her in the light of the New Testament where Judaizers or others were going around the places St. Paul did and telling the gentiles / Greeks what the gospel really was. St. Paul and others had to come to correct their teachings because they didn’t have the fullness of the understanding of truth.
This is nothing against Joyce Meyer personally but she does preach a different gospel and yes, I have heard her speak. Some of it is very good and some not. She doesn’t have it right about salvation for one.
Her gospel does not include the priesthood, sacraments, the ongoing sacrifice on the altar, forgiveness of sins by a priest, but I am not sure about her belief in baptism. She does not have the guarantee of not preaching falsehoods like the Catholic Church was given by Christ. She may be a holy person, probably more than I am but that does not give her the advantage of making a church that is supposedly better than the one Christ established. No one can do that even though many try believing that they are correct.
The Holy Spirit can and does work through her and she has helped many. It is a shame that she does not have the fullness of the faith and the ability to receive more of God’s graces through the sacraments.
mdcpensive1
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Holly3278
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Well, I think she teaches the “prosperity gospel” which is absolute heresy!
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mdcpensive1
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I have heard her say some things like that but not as bad as some others.
mdcpensive1
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Philena
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The prosperity gospel heresy infects all corners of Protestantism, even those that aren’t explicitly promoting it.
I have a terminal illness, and my dear Protestant friends keep assuring me that if I have enough faith God will heal me. Conversely a lack of faith hinders God’s healing. These comments remind me of Job’s friends. They are not helpful. How much faith is enough?
I have a terminal illness, and my dear Protestant friends keep assuring me that if I have enough faith God will heal me. Conversely a lack of faith hinders God’s healing. These comments remind me of Job’s friends. They are not helpful. How much faith is enough?
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TriuneUnity
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I would say that it is infecting all corners of American evangelicalism, yes. I haven’t seen it personally in my circles, but I know of parishes that have promoted it. The prosperity gospel is heresy.
Basically, God is there for you and your happiness. He has some rules and principles for getting what you want out of life and if you follow them, you can have what you want. Just “declare it” and prosperity will come to you. God as Personal Shopper.
Although explicit proponents of the so-called “prosperity gospel” may be fewer than their influence suggests, its big names and best-selling authors (T. D. Jakes, Benny Hinn, Joel Osteen, and Joyce Meyer) are purveyors of a pagan worldview with a peculiarly American flavor. It’s basically what Luther called a “theology of glory”: How can I climb the ladder and attain the glory here and now that God has actually promised for us after a life of suffering? The contrast is the “theology of the cross”: the story of God’s merciful descent to us, at great personal cost, a message that the Apostle Paul acknowledged was offensive and “foolish to Greeks.”
My prayers are with you in your illness, Philena. Don’t worry if your faith is enough. Jesus is enough.
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Carlan
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Yes TriuneUnity, all Christians would do better pleasing the Father by listening to and following the doctrine of the Cross(Matt 16: 24 Mark 8: 34) God bless, and Peace to all,
Carlan
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Bob_Crowley
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Actually this debate reminds me of a cartoon displayed by one of the priests when I was doing my RCIA to join the Catholic Church. I think the cartoonist’s name was Cobb, if memory serves me correctly.
It was some years old, but it made a point.
On the left was this tatty, bandaged, badly damaged underdog Jesus with the caption, “The Catholic Jesus”.
On the right was this triumphant, halo bearing, light shining, exalted, water walking Jesus, with the caption, “The Protestant Jesus”.
And in the middle was this ordinary looking bloke, looking a bit befuddled, neither one nor the other, with the caption, “Would the real Jesus please stand up?”
It was some years old, but it made a point.
On the left was this tatty, bandaged, badly damaged underdog Jesus with the caption, “The Catholic Jesus”.
On the right was this triumphant, halo bearing, light shining, exalted, water walking Jesus, with the caption, “The Protestant Jesus”.
And in the middle was this ordinary looking bloke, looking a bit befuddled, neither one nor the other, with the caption, “Would the real Jesus please stand up?”
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Philena
Guest
Thanks, “TriuneUnity” for your comments and clarification that it is more evangelical Protestantism that may promote elements of the prosperity gospel, rather than traditional Lutherans like those in the WELS.
I am a former WELS Lutheran, and still have ties to my old church. None of them have suggested anything close to the propsperity gospel to me.
I strive to take up my cross daily to follow my Lord Jesus.
I am a former WELS Lutheran, and still have ties to my old church. None of them have suggested anything close to the propsperity gospel to me.
I strive to take up my cross daily to follow my Lord Jesus.
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