What's wrong with just being a catholic?

[tbcrawford]

I hope I get some helpful feedback here.For some time now I have been concerned about my sisters parish.A lot of Opus Dei members attend and seem to have a great deal of influence on the parish priest.One opus dei couple prepare the altar, conduct benediction and generally organise everything for weekday Masses and morning Sunday Mass.
Recently the priest attended an opus dei retreat joined by some aforesaid parishioners.My sister who suffers severe depression) has been invited (several)times to attend a mass this Friday evening for the celebration of St.Jose Maria Escriva.No disrespect to this recent saint (founder of opus dei)but I understand Escriva had special messages to him from God about the way to live our lives! I understand opus dei has only recently been in communion with the church.It worries me enormously the things i have read about their beliefs and practices.My sister and many others are vulnerable people and i fear this organisation.What is so wrong with just being a catholic?I am proud to be catholic.Responses would be most welcome.
God Bless

 

[JRKH]

Could you clarify what you mean by “Just being Catholic”?

Could you clarify what beliefs of Opus Dei bother you?

Have you considered going with your sister?
That way you could see and hear for yourself.

Peace
James

 

[tbcrawford]

Hello JRKH
thabkyou for replying.I will try to clarify what I think opus dei beliefs are that concern me and my brothers sisters and mum.
They appear ro revere St.Jose Maria Escriva high above the Pope but more importantly above God.They act in a cult-like manner attempting to recruit people in the same way cults do.They believe Escriva had many revelations from God to him.This worries me as why would God want someone to begin their own sect within the church?The one, holy,catholic and apostolic church is RC church so why would God speak to Escriva and say start opus dei?They believe man has only been on the earth for 5000 yrs!!These are just some of the things.
What is so wrong with just being a catholic?..I try, like millions of others to be as Christ-like as possible.I try to live by the catholic churches teachings.I attend mass as often as possible (nearly every day).I try to be good & kind to all i meet or hear about.I sponsor a child in Uganda,have fostered 2 children…i could go on.
Hence my point what is so wrong with being a regular normal practising catholic?

To answer your question about me attending mass with my sister, i do ,most weekdays as i am her carer(she is disabled) & i take her to mass.
Thankyou for responding it just seems very dubious at best & sinister at worst.
God Bless

 

[learningtheway]

Opus dei! Those conspirator heathens!
Sorry had to.

Honestly, other than from the book the DaVinci Code I don’t know much about them.

Have you spoken to your sister about your concerns?

 

[tbcrawford]

Thankyou learningtheway my sister & i talk about this virtually daily.She is very worried as they appear to be targeting her.She knows she is vulnerable as she is severly depressed & unable to “stand up for herself”.You brought a smile to me though & thankyou so much for that:yup:

God Bless

 

[learningtheway]

Thankyou learningtheway my sister & i talk about this virtually daily.She is very worried as they appear to be targeting her.She knows she is vulnerable as she is severly depressed & unable to “stand up for herself”.You brought a smile to me though & thankyou so much for that:yup:

God Bless

Anytime. So are you talking harassment? What kind? And if so, all it takes is a phone call to the police.

 

[m134e5]

Opus Dei is an outstanding organization that does great things for its followers- who turn around and do great things for the Church. It is a church-approved apostolate, and its founder is a canonized saint. The teachings of Opus Dei are nothing to be afraid of. Because the name was carelessly used in the popular book (and the movie based on it) “The DaVinci Code”, it gets a lot of bad press. The representation given by the book and movie is totally false.

The founder was from Spain. There are language and cultural differences that can make his writings difficult to take in, but they are no less approved by the Church. I suggest you get a copy of St. Josemaria Escriva’s book, “The Way”.

What’s wrong with “just being a Catholic”? Well…nothing, if you can become a saint that way. Some people- many people- need more than to just go to Mass and pray on their own. Some people need organizations like Opus Dei, Regnum Christi, Communion and Liberation, and other groups to help them keep a structured spiritual life. Like most groups like that, Opus Dei is an apostolate that some are called to- whereas others might not be called to it.

Some people encourage others to over-exaggerate their sins, and downplay their accomplishments “to avoid becoming prideful”, but they are either 1.) someone who has no business giving spiritual direction, or 2.) writing to a general audience that does not have issues with low self-esteem or depression (and they should clarify that- unfortunately not all of them do so). Opus Dei followers don’t just do things on their own- they meet in groups to talk, and they also go to confession (and I assume some spiritual direction is included in that) and Mass regularly. Your friend may or may not be called to join Opus Dei- but whether she is or not, simply going to one of their Masses probably won’t hurt. If she is called to join Opus Dei, it could totally change her life (for the better).

I wish there was an Opus Dei center near me. I’d join it in a heartbeat. As it is, all I can do is read as much as I can about it, and grow in devotion to it’s founder and one of my favorite saints- Saint Josemaria Escriva.

 

[Della]

Thankyou learningtheway my sister & i talk about this virtually daily.She is very worried as they appear to be targeting her.She knows she is vulnerable as she is severly depressed & unable to “stand up for herself”.You brought a smile to me though & thankyou so much for that:yup:

God Bless

No one should be targeted by any lay order, sodality, or society within the Church. If your sister doesn’t feel OD is for her she shouldn’t be pressured into getting involved. You might want to contact your diocesan office about this situation. It is sure to have someone who oversees lay groups.

To answer your other question–“Why can’t we just be Catholic?”, well we can. There’s no “need” for anyone to be in any lay group if they don’t feel drawn to it. Lay groups should help us live out our baptismal promises. Each group has its own “charism” or emphasis that should help those in them live lives of virtue and aid their spirituality. If they violate individuals’ rights or are pressuring others to get involved they shouldn’t be doing that, and something is seriously wrong.

 

[JRKH]

Hello JRKH
thabkyou for replying.I will try to clarify what I think opus dei beliefs are that concern me and my brothers sisters and mum.

Your welcome. I will be the first to admit that I know very little about the Opus Dei Movement, but I will try to give you some thoughts that might help.
I looked up their Website to maybe help both of us. ** It’s Here**

They appear to revere St.Jose Maria Escriva high above the Pope but more importantly above God.

Appearances can be deceiving. How many Protestants believe that we revere amry above Jesus and/or “pray to” statues. I would suggest that, since they are in full communion with the Church, what they “appear” to be doing is not what they are actually doing.

They act in a cult-like manner attempting to recruit people in the same way cults do.

I can’t really comment on this.

They believe Escriva had many revelations from God to him.This worries me as why would God want someone to begin their own sect within the church? The one, holy,catholic and apostolic church is RC church so why would God speak to Escriva and say start opus dei?

Actually the Church is full of “Sects” as you call them. Many are called “religious orders” of monks and sisters. Many of these orders have “lay” branches commonly called 3rd orders.
St Francis was called directly by God to “rebuild My Church”, because of the worldliness of the Church, the priests and Bishops.
Mother Angelica was Called directly by God to found EWTN as well as an order of Sisters and Brothers.
In short there are many precidents for this.

They believe man has only been on the earth for 5000 yrs!!These are just some of the things.

Well, while I don’t read the Bible this way, there are many who do and this certainly doesn’t seem diabolic to hold this belief.

What is so wrong with just being a catholic?..I try, like millions of others to be as Christ-like as possible.I try to live by the catholic churches teachings.I attend mass as often as possible (nearly every day).I try to be good & kind to all i meet or hear about.I sponsor a child in Uganda,have fostered 2 children…i could go on.
Hence my point what is so wrong with being a regular normal practising catholic?

Sorry if I seemed picky but I just wanted to know you a bit better.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with being “just a Catholic” as you relate it above. Neither is there anything wrong with a member of the third order franciscans, or a member of the Knights of Columbus or part of the St Vincent De-Paul Society or part of any other order or group within the Church. Being one does not preclude or require being another.

To answer your question about me attending mass with my sister, i do ,most weekdays as i am her carer(she is disabled) & i take her to mass.
Thankyou for responding it just seems very dubious at best & sinister at worst.
God Bless

I guess my thing is that your best course is to learn as much as possible about the Opus Dei Movement within the Church and see if it appears appropriate for your sister and/or yourself. If Opus Dei is not a good fit, perhaps there is another group in your area that would be helpful to your sister and to you.

Hope some of this helps.

Peace
James

 

[Dtmccameron]

People…they’re the Opus Dei! Decent and righteouss and godly!

Sheesh!

That’s not to say that abuses impossible to members. That’s also not to say that who ever is doing the recruiting might be a little overzealous. After all, they wouldn’t be recruiting if they didn’t think it would do her some good!

 

[JRKH]

I may be way off base here and please forgive me if I am but…

You say that your sister suffers from depression and cannot stand up for herself.
Is it possible that there are well meaning people who are encouraging her to come but she is “feeling pressured”? This would not be at all uncommon in a person with depression.

Peace
James

 

[tbcrawford]

Hi Learningtheway they harrass her by continually giving her paraphernalia inviting her to opus dei events & we dont need to call the police but thankyou for your concern.I didnt explain very well sorry i just worry for my sister.

Hi m134e5 my sister was given “the way” by opus dei “friend” a while ago and other things.I truly hope i am wrong to be concerned but i simply cannot understand the need for opus dei & their beliefs.The one true holy catholic and apostolic church and its teachings are more than enough for me.I love my Lord my God above all things

Hi JRKH thankyou so much for your detailed reply i truly value it.I will definitely look on the link you sent.I really hopr im wrong to be worried.I understand your point about orders of nuns and brothers etc.I was taught both primary & secondary age by nuns in convents.
My dad(now deceased) was a member of st.vincent de paul i belonged to Legion of Mary etc.The difference is the nuns who taught me respected the priest and accepted his word.When i belonged to legion of mary i did as priest directed me and we prayed to God not a saint.To my understanding we should pray to God to worship and revere Him thank Him and ask for help.We pray for the intercession (help) from saints to ask God on our behalf.Not pray TO saints.

Hi Dtmccameron im sorry if i offended you i certainly dont want to offend anyone.I really am concerned as i have explained in my earlier posts.I hope i am worrying about nothing however it seems wrong…sorry

I really appreciate your help everyone

God Bless

 

[Sylvia65]

I hope I get some helpful feedback here.For some time now I have been concerned about my sisters parish.A lot of Opus Dei members attend and seem to have a great deal of influence on the parish priest.One opus dei couple prepare the altar, conduct benediction and generally organise everything for weekday Masses and morning Sunday Mass.
Recently the priest attended an opus dei retreat joined by some aforesaid parishioners.My sister who suffers severe depression) has been invited (several)times to attend a mass this Friday evening for the celebration of St.Jose Maria Escriva.No disrespect to this recent saint (founder of opus dei)but I understand Escriva had special messages to him from God about the way to live our lives! I understand opus dei has only recently been in communion with the church.It worries me enormously the things i have read about their beliefs and practices.My sister and many others are vulnerable people and i fear this organisation.What is so wrong with just being a catholic?I am proud to be catholic.Responses would be most welcome.
God Bless

Just continue what you are doing. If you feel uncomfortable, tell them how you feel. Go to a different parish and see if you have another opinion from them. This I would do if you feel unsure of this situation. I am proud to be Catholic myself. I have visit other faiths and I always go back where I started.

 

[tee_eff_em]

I understand opus dei has only recently been in communion with the church.

Can you elaborate on your understanding? (I am not aware that Opus Dei has ever been out of communion with the Church?)

tee

 

[tbcrawford]

JRKH you are right they are making her feel “under pressure”.That said though it really does not seem like other organisations within the church.I dont want to offend anyone here at all i apologise to everone/anyone who is offended.I hope im wrong to worry and God really did give all these “other” teachings to Escriva.!
Thanks again JRKH
God Bless

 

[tbcrawford]

Hi Della thankyou for responding i totally agree with all you said thankyou.:yup:

Hi Sylvia65 thankyou so much will take your advice go to another parish etc.:yup:

Hi tee i thankyou for responding but i would refer you to my earlier posts i think i elaborated quite well.My understanding is Pope John Paul II brought opus dei into communion with the church.Does it not sound/feel odd to other catholics that God would ask for new teachings by Escriva why not the pope himself?I really am concerned this is not from God.Again hope im wrong

God Bless

 

[Della]

Hi Della thankyou for responding i totally agree with all you said thankyou.:yup:

Hi Sylvia65 thankyou so much will take your advice go to another parish etc.:yup:

Hi tee i thankyou for responding but i would refer you to my earlier posts i think i elaborated quite well.My understanding is Pope John Paul II brought opus dei into communion with the church.Does it not sound/feel odd to other catholics that God would ask for new teachings by Escriva why not the pope himself?I really am concerned this is not from God.Again hope im wrong

God Bless

You’re welcome!

A movement being new doesn’t mean there should be anything against. At one time the Legion of Mary was new too. The Church is a living organism not a monolith. It’s always growing and renewing itself. The Gospel remains ever the same, but how it’s made alive to each generation may vary. Every Order of the Church started at some time in history and many had those who opposed them due to misunderstandings or the desire to keep things as they knew and understood them. OD isn’t for you and most likely not for your sister, but it isn’t suspect just because it’s not of ancient origins.

 

[tee_eff_em]

Hi tee i thankyou for responding but i would refer you to my earlier posts i think i elaborated quite well.My understanding is Pope John Paul II brought opus dei into communion with the church.

Do you mean earlier posts in this thread? Or elsewhere? If in this thread, I am afraid I must be too thick to understand.

I do understand that the Servant of God, John Paul II, established Opus Dei as a “personal prelature”, but it is not my understanding that the organization was “out of communion” with the Church prior to that act, nor at any other time? Is there something I am missing?

tee
(Who, FTR, has no affiliation with Opus Dei)

 

[St_Francis]

Opus Dei has always been “in communion” with the Church. However, there have been people for whom OD was a bad fit spiritually. It is very rigorous, from what I hear, but for some people, that is what they need spiritually.

Here is an article about an Opus Dei member’s day, which shows how he integrates Catholicism into his life along the lines recommended by Opus Dei.

If you and your sister do not feel comfortable with the idea of Opus Dei, then I would say that perhaps it is not right for you; otoh, it may be that your lack of information is what is causing you discomfort. If the two of you each feel comfortable with what you are doing now, then being “just a Catholic” is right for you right now.

Do you each have a spiritual director? (That’s a rhetorical question, not one you have to answer.) A spiritual director can be very helpful in growing in the spiritual life, and also help you each to discern the path to which God is calling you in terms of prayer and spiritual reading and the like.

 

[KarinaFabian]

I want to address the aspect of putting your sister under pressure to join.

Giving these people the benefit of a doubt, I’d suggest that they are thinking OD might give her the spiritual boost she needs, esp. if they know she suffers from depression. Or they may be encouraged by the fact that you do attend Mass so often–so few do, and usually those that do are interested in lay organizations like theirs. I would also guess that their intention is not to “build their cult” or anything so nefarious.

Of course, that does not solve the problem for you–which, to me, seems to be the pressure your sister is under. May I suggest:

1. Instead of generalizing to Opus Dei as an organization, you look at which of its members are working so hard to recruit her.
2. If they give you brochures, give them back with a “No, thank you.” That’s a nice, firm, physical as well as verbal message.
3. You step in for her if she cannot defend herself. Tell them in a firm but polite way that she’s discussed this with you and isn’t interested, but “doesn’t want to hurt their feelings by saying no” “Is afraid her outright refusal will damage her standing among the community” “really needs them to give her some time to consider it without the pressure to join” or whatever.
4. If they continue, you may need to discuss this with the parish priest. Even if he is a member of OD, he probably would not approve of high-pressure recruiting. Just explain that you’ve been invited, refused, but they continue to bother you and your sister. Give him the names of the people who are doing this–if you say “the Opus Dei” then he cannot address the issue with the people who are causing the problem. (You do not need to explain to him why you refused, either. Just say you aren’t interested.)
5. If your priest does not support you, then you may need to do one of the following:
   –get tough and blatant. “We’ve said, ‘No.’ Now leave us alone about this. We are happy with our spiritual life.”
   –change parishes
   –go to the diocese and complain

Hope that helps.