What's wrong with just being a catholic?

[PJM]

=tbcrawford;5355322]I hope I get some helpful feedback here.For some time now I have been concerned about my sisters parish.A lot of Opus Dei members attend and seem to have a great deal of influence on the parish priest.One opus dei couple prepare the altar, conduct benediction and generally organise everything for weekday Masses and morning Sunday Mass.

Recently the priest attended an opus dei retreat joined by some aforesaid parishioners.My sister who suffers severe depression) has been invited (several)times to attend a mass this Friday evening for the celebration of St.Jose Maria Escriva.No disrespect to this recent saint (founder of opus dei)but I understand Escriva had special messages to him from God about the way to live our lives! I understand opus dei has only recently been in communion with the church.It worries me enormously the things i have read about their beliefs and practices.My sister and many others are vulnerable people and i fear this organisation.What is so wrong with just being a catholic?I am proud to be catholic.Responses would be most welcome.
God Bless

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One need take care in reply not to cross over the line of Obedience to descent of Church teaching.

The process for Sainthood is long and exhaustive. Blessed Mother Theresa of Calcutta, Pope John Paul II, Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen, and the most saintly person I have ever met, Father John A. Hardon S.J., have all had there “CAUSE” under evaluation for sometime. The Church does not declare one a Canonized Saint until extensive and exhaustive review and verifications have been done.

I can think of no one more qualified than our present Pontiff to affirm the call on OD, as his many years of service and the Curia Head for the Congregation for the Faith, he would have had much information on OD, that is not available to us.

Part of the Sainthood process is verification of positions, philosophies, and theology that comply and conform to Church Teaching.

From this perspective, I suspect it is not prudent to be questioning the Mind and Heart of The Church on the matter.

I too had some concerns, but with Sainthood granted, I have placed them behind me. If its good enough for a man to become a Saint, it’s gotta be good enough for me

Love and prayers***

 

[KyivAndrew]

Dear tbcrawford. Being Catholic is enough. Opus Dei I believe serves certain Catholics and their faith quite well, but as the late conservative catholic Father Richard John Neuhaus stated in his journal First Things, it is not for everyone.

Just my take and I hope not to offend anyone. When someone is depressed, I do not know that any Catholic org. like Opus Dei should at that point attempt proselytizing when a person is in a weaker state. Why? Because its sainted founder Escriva always personally practiced personal mortification with quite severe rigor, and this is known by his followers, most of whom I believe (could be wrong) are obligated at times to wear a cilice (could be metal) - a chain with inwardly-pointing spikes worn tightly around the thigh to remind them of Christ’s suffering. I believe your sister, in combating clinical depression, would probably not benefit from obligating herself to some sort of further mortification. (please note I am not denying the benefits of this to other and many Catholics) but just to the situation as explained to me. I could be wrong, but if you feel they are getting pushy, push back and say no thanks, if you wish. As Father Neuhaus said, it is not for everyone, including most of our priests and bishops it seems. God Bless!

 

[tbcrawford]

KyivAndrew thankyou so much for your helpful response.I agree about the cilice etc and yes definitely my sister is vulnerable and cant commit to such things and like you say thats fine for others who wish to take that life and i admire and respect them for it.
God bless you

 

[gekee]

Hello JRKH
thabkyou for replying.I will try to clarify what I think opus dei beliefs are that concern me and my brothers sisters and mum.
They appear ro revere St.Jose Maria Escriva high above the Pope but more importantly above God.They act in a cult-like manner attempting to recruit people in the same way cults do.They believe Escriva had many revelations from God to him.This worries me as why would God want someone to begin their own sect within the church?The one, holy,catholic and apostolic church is RC church so why would God speak to Escriva and say start opus dei?They believe man has only been on the earth for 5000 yrs!!These are just some of the things.
What is so wrong with just being a catholic?..I try, like millions of others to be as Christ-like as possible.I try to live by the catholic churches teachings.I attend mass as often as possible (nearly every day).I try to be good & kind to all i meet or hear about.I sponsor a child in Uganda,have fostered 2 children…i could go on.
Hence my point what is so wrong with being a regular normal practising catholic?

To answer your question about me attending mass with my sister, i do ,most weekdays as i am her carer(she is disabled) & i take her to mass.
Thankyou for responding it just seems very dubious at best & sinister at worst.
God Bless

Hi tbcrawford,
I understand your predicament and feel the same way as you do concerning all these new teachings.

 

[JRKH]

Hi tbcrawford,

     I understand your predicament and feel the same way as you do concerning all these new teachings.

These, “New Teachings” have been alluded to here but none mentioned.
Would you care to elaborate on what these “new teachings” might be?

Since Opus Dei is an approved organization within the Church I can’t see that they espouse any non-magisterial teachings.

Peace
James

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

My dear friend

I’ve been involved with OD a long time and know many members. don’t listen to satan as he stirs up people against them. they’ve never been out of communion. you might say their a favourite of the Pope in my opinion. there’s nothing wrong with just being a catholic but just being a catholic is supposed to mean striving for sanctity. this is what the church teaches and wants. This is what will make us happy now and later.

God does not love us half heartedly and we should respond in kind.

God bless you friend:thumbsup:
John

 

[JRKH]

My dear friend

I’ve been involved with OD a long time and know many members. don’t listen to satan as he stirs up people against them. they’ve never been out of communion. you might say their a favourite of the Pope in my opinion. there’s nothing wrong with just being a catholic but just being a catholic is supposed to mean striving for sanctity. this is what the church teaches and wants. This is what will make us happy now and later.

God does not love us half heartedly and we should respond in kind.

God bless you friend:thumbsup:
John

John,
Welcome to the discussion.
I have been hoping that someone involved with Opus Dei would stop by.
Perhaps now, if anyone has a specific concern. it can be addressed by someone on the “inside”.

Peace
James

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

John,
Welcome to the discussion.
I have been hoping that someone involved with Opus Dei would stop by.
Perhaps now, if anyone has a specific concern. it can be addressed by someone on the “inside”.

Peace
James

My dear friend James

Hi:tiphat: If anyone wants to know about Opus Dei just ask.

God bless you:thumbsup:
John

 

[baltobetsy]

To clear things up about the mortification issue: only the celibate members of Opus Dei are expected to use the cilice or any other corporal mortification. Although all members live a SPIRIT of mortification, most members limit themselves to small, everyday sacrifices that anyone else would make, for example, yielding cheerfully to others in matters of preference, leaving the cream out of the coffee, waiting a few minutes to put on a sweater in cold weather, letting others have the last word, getting up right on time, etc. This way of living helps you put others first and unite your small sufferings to the Cross of Christ.

Betsy

 

[tbcrawford]

Hi Betsy thankyou for clearing up that matter of mortification for me.I really appreciate it!!!

Hi gekee thankyou for your response.I have mislead you and i apologise that i have.Opus Dei, the organisation, with its founder Escriva represent good things as part of the catholic church with its life-style.I was concerned previously that perhaps it was a reflection that " just being a catholic "is not enough.I had thought, wrongly, that they were "separate but working within the catholic church as an organisation.I have been put right on this thread,thankfully ,by people far more knowledgeable than myself.I personally know very little really about Opus Dei but they certainly have standards to aspire to.I have been very, very, wrong to lead you or anyone to think otherwise.I apologise.I still think there is nothing wrong with just being a catholic.I am extremely proud and honoured to be a catholic, a member of The One True Holy catholic and Apostolic Church Jesus himself established here on earth with the Apostles.God be with you my friend and im honoured you responded to this thread thankyou

JRKH and John Russell Jr thankyou for your (name removed by moderator)ut please continue with this and enlighten all of us
God Bless

 

[Sr_Sally]

One thing also to remember about any organization is that the practices, rule of life, and any mortifications, would all be done under spiritual direction. During discernment and once you join a group like Opus Dei or a 3rd order, you are under direction from a priest or other spiritual director. That person would counsel you as to how you were to adapt the practices in your life. So for example a healthy, single person might be expected to do more than some one with a young family, or someone with health issues like OP’s sister. We always read about certain Saints who practiced a very strict rule or mortifications, what we don’t always realize is that those same Saints often would restrict their followers from doing the same (St Ignatius for example), or when they came under spiritual direction were told to modify their habits (St Rosa of Lima for example).

 

[Red_Meg]

This will be interesting trying to type with one finger in a splint…

TBCrawford-- one of the most helpful ways I’ve heard to think about Opus Dei (or any other vocational avenue within the Church) is that it is simply a particular way of living out the universal call to holiness we all received at baptism. Kind of like-- we’re all in the same stream, hopefully heading the same way, i.e. towards Heaven. Lots of people swim it alone, and that’s fine (i.e. “just” being a Catholic.) Others climb aboard one raft or another (be it Opus Dei, some order or institute or consecration or what have you) as they feel drawn to it. The important thing is that we reach Heaven at the end of it.

As far as your sister goes-- I’d suggest that she just be very clear and say that she is simply not interested. At all. Sometimes it can be really hard to know what someone means by “Maybe later.” Sometimes it’s just a polite way of saying, “No way! Not interested!” but without wanting to hurt feelings, while other times it means, “I’m actually quite interested but I’m crazy-busy right now and it’ll have to wait a few weeks.” So a polite, but firm, smiling, “No thanks,” might go a long way towards clearing things up for whoever is issuing the invitations.

Best,

Margaret

 

[tbcrawford]

Sr Sally thankyou so much and especially for the insight.For my sister at this moment in her life O.D would be too much for her but that is not to say one day it may be.God works in mysterious & loving ways.I dont know what calling He has for my sister or me for that fact.!!!God bless you

Red Meg thankyou so much you are right about being honest.It is tricky though to say no to these very good people who are totally devout & clearly care for my sister.I will take your advice though if anything else comes up (more invitations etc).God bless you.

 

[JRKH]

Just as an addition to Red Meg’s advise about being polite but firm.
Perhaps it would be good to ask the O.D. people if they would pray especially for your sister. This way, while you are firmly saying no to joining, you are also giving to them the opportunity to raise your sister up in prayer, as a special cause, for her healing.

Just a thought.

Peace
James

 

[tbcrawford]

Hi everybody just to update you all…I have just come home from visiting my sister.Today after mass she was invited to go to an O.D monthly meeting.After we talked it seems my sister may be feeling called to jion O.D after all.Our Blessed Lord works in wonderful & mysterious ways.It is my sisters life & i support her no matter what she does/doesnt do.I will be there in her life to help her anyway & i feel terrible that i may have caused her to go against Gods will.I hope i have not & i hope i have not influenced people in the wrong direction regaeding Opus Dei.I am truly sorry everyone for thinking badly of them.I love the Lord my God above all things His will be done.I want to serve & be the best desciple i can be.I love being a catholic.God Bless everyone

 

[JRKH]

Hi everybody just to update you all…I have just come home from visiting my sister.Today after mass she was invited to go to an O.D monthly meeting.After we talked it seems my sister may be feeling called to jion O.D after all.Our Blessed Lord works in wonderful & mysterious ways.It is my sisters life & i support her no matter what she does/doesnt do.I will be there in her life to help her anyway & i feel terrible that i may have caused her to go against Gods will.I hope i have not & i hope i have not influenced people in the wrong direction regaeding Opus Dei.I am truly sorry everyone for thinking badly of them.I love the Lord my God above all things His will be done.I want to serve & be the best desciple i can be.I love being a catholic.God Bless everyone

Thank you for sharing this. I am so glad that you and your sister had a chance to really talk things over. Your loving care for your sister is evident in all that you have writen.

I know what it is to deal with people who suffer from depression and will only say, as I’m sure you know, that you should stay in close contact with your sister, and possibly her mentors in O.D. In this way she will have the benefit of the best support and guidance you AND they can provide.

May God Bless you.

Peace
James

 

[tbcrawford]

James thankyou so much may God Bless you.

 

[baltobetsy]

tbcrawford, I’m glad to hear that your sister is open to the invitation to attend the monthly meeting. I just want to let you know that a person can attend the activities of Opus Dei for a lifetime and never join or make any kind of commitment if they do not want to. There is tremendous benefit for everyone, those who actually have a vocation to Opus Dei and join as members, those who don’t have a vocation and become Cooperators (like an auxiliary), and those who pop in and out to the activities when it’s convenient and helpful to them, and never join at all.

Making the commitment to join is a matter of hearing God’s call (it’s always His call) and wanting to respond. There’s always freedom.

Betsy

 

[Norseman82]

tbcrawford,

Please forgive me if I missed this in your posts, but what does your sister think about what she has seen from the Opus Dei people she has met? Have you two talked about it? Does SHE feel pressured? I think that should be the first step.
Regarding Opus Dei, the founding premise is that everyone is called to holiness, not just priests and religious. There is nothing wrong with that. But any organization can have its share of “problem people” or people who can be over-controlling or pushy. I guess your job as caretaker is to determine if the Opus Dei members you are encountering are that type of people. That would be step two.

From there, you can determine how to approach them - either a go-slow approach and attend some of their events if your sister feels comfortable, or a “BACK OFF!” response that another poster suggested if your sister feels pressured.

Also, talk to your confessor (I actually recommend that you speak with several priests to see if there is a consensus) about this dilemna.

Edit: OOPS! never mind - I just saw your last two posts.

 

[tbcrawford]

Oh thankyou so much Betsy for your wise words.I think my sister could stand to gain alot from this but if not it certainly wont do her any harm.God knows whats best for her not me.I am there to help her in any way i can no matter what she does.God bless you.

Thankyou Norseman 82 I feel such a fool worrying about O.D but the people i have met appear extremely devout & lovely.I appreciate your caring it is so kind.I will be watching over my sister to see how she is affected if she takes up this offer.it certainly seems thats what she wants right now.God will be guiding her, & me for her.God bless you