What's wrong with marrying a non-virgin?

[David_Thorne]

Then I guess charity is selfish/self-centered because of the good-feeling vibe it gives someone.

Well thank you for reminding me that giving that $10 to the homeless outreach group and feeling good about it is un-Christian :doh2:

I never said charity is selfish. I said marrying who you want to marry is based on your own desires. Few marry someone they aren’t happy around just because it would be non-selfish.

 

[sweetpetunia]

Right. Which is why I’m saying marrying who you want to marry is inherently selfish/self-centered.

I still don’t get it. It seems as though you are saying one should marry a person whom one is not attracted to/compatible with, as a favor to them, to prove you are being unselfish. Is that correct?

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I never said charity is selfish. I said marrying who you want to marry is based on your own desires. Few marry someone they aren’t happy around just because it would be non-selfish.

And that’s a good thing. Marrying someone who doesn’t make you happy because it would be generous is cruel. It turns people in to charity cases instead of freeing them to find someone that they can have an honest and loving future with.

 

[mommamaree]

Only if you in some way force them.

I’m marrying who I want to marry. But in doing so I am giving him everything, every single part of me for the rest of my life. Everything I ever want, need, think, and feel will be tied to him. Every decision I make he will have a voice in. You marry who you want to marry, and then you give yourself completely and unselfishly for the rest of your life.

I’ll overlook the selfish decision of finding someone that you love and loves you back and marrying them. Who else would you marry?

:clapping::clapping:

BlueEyedLady, you have a deeper understanding of marriage than most Christians I know. I know you are an atheist, but I still pray for you and your fiancé to have a long and happy marriage. It sounds like you two are entering marriage with generous hearts.

P.S. I hope I haven’t gotten confused. I believe you are engaged to be married, soon, yes?

 

[David_Thorne]

I’ll give you that that’s creepy. No argument there. It’s every bit as creepy as men who marry women because they are virgins.

Although I don’t think that anyone picks a marriage partner based on more experienced or virgin. People pick who to date based on that, but marriage decisions tend to be based on what happens from there.

It goes both ways. But people who are virgins these days tend to be more conservative so there’s overlap in views.

But wanting to marry a virgin is not the same as marrying someone because they are a virgin. I agree that marrying someone just because they are a virgin and with no other criteria are just as creepy.

Men and women will marry someone based on their level of sexual experience. There’s a reason there are so many books in bookstores and articles in magazines on it. If someone considers it “recreation” they will act accordingly. Dating sites often have factors that center around that, some more explicit than others (and too explicit for here).

 

[David_Thorne]

I still don’t get it. It seems as though you are saying one should marry a person whom one is not attracted to/compatible with, as a favor to them, to prove you are being unselfish. Is that correct?

No, not saying that. You don’t have to prove anything to anyone. All I’m saying is that the process of finding someone to marry is, at its root, selfish. You are considering your own desires in selection over the desires of someone else, especially if they are incompatible (i.e. they like you, you can’t stand them). It’s not a bad thing, either, to clarify.

 

[David_Thorne]

Put yourself in the shoes of the jilted virgin and hopefully you will understand.

I don’t get this. No one deserves a marriage partner. No one deserves a marriage partner to their liking. Some people don’t find the person they want to marry. Are they jilted too?

 

[sweetpetunia]

No, not saying that. You don’t have to prove anything to anyone. All I’m saying is that the process of finding someone to marry is, at its root, selfish. You are considering your own desires in selection over the desires of someone else, especially if they are incompatible (i.e. they like you, you can’t stand them). It’s not a bad thing, either, to clarify.

Ah. I getcha now. I thought you were saying the same as Norseman and one should sacrifice one’s own desires for the “jilted virgin” to be unselfish. I must be tired because the term JV is making me laugh out loud.

 

[David_Thorne]

Ah. I getcha now. I thought you were saying the same as Norseman and one should sacrifice one’s own desires for the “jilted virgin” to be unselfish. I must be tired because the term JV is making me laugh out loud.

No, I don’t agree with Norseman. People can marry whoever they want to marry.

 

[sweetpetunia]

No, I don’t agree with Norseman. People can marry whoever they want to marry.

Yeah, I think it was the term “selfish” that through me for a loop. Also, I think it is worth noting that acting in one’s own self interest is not the same thing as being selfish. I might grow a vegetable garden to feed myself (i.e., acting in self interest) but that doesn’t make me selfish.

 

[TimeEntrance]

Anyway, it’s a valid concern for people who have lived their lives in an exemplary fashion to want to avoid STDs. I understand some people want to take their chances as a practice of mercy or forgiveness or compassion. That’s their call.

I’m not sure if you meant for that to come out the way it sounded or came across but it sure was funny.

I know few - no… I know no one - that has sex with other folks that have sex with other people for reasons you just gave that I placed in bold.

Trust… if I had sex with Jennifer Lopez it would not be out of mercy, forgiveness, or compassion for her.

Also… why do I care who J-Lo has sex with or marries? Oh, that’s right, I don’t.

I don’t really care how many wives Osama Bin Laden had either. I don’t care if the American celebrity Jesse James is a notorious womanizer that cheated on his celebrity wife. But I have to say… I really dig Jesse James overall cosmetic style and his tatts and swagger. :coffeeread:

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Yeah, I think it was the term “selfish” that through me for a loop. Also, I think it is worth noting that acting in one’s own self interest is not the same thing as being selfish. I might grow a vegetable garden to feed myself (i.e., acting in self interest) but that doesn’t make me selfish.

Also, according to the catholic faith marriage is a vocation, something that you’re called by god to do. If you follow that correctly it wouldn’t really be selfish would it?

 

[sweetpetunia]

Also, according to the catholic faith marriage is a vocation, something that you’re called by god to do. If you follow that correctly it wouldn’t really be selfish would it?

Correct. He doesn’t disagree. He’s saying that one chooses a spouse based on personal preferences and in their own interest, hence why you wouldn’t marry someone who loved you if you didn’t love them back.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Correct. He doesn’t disagree. He’s saying that one chooses a spouse based on personal preferences and in their own interest, hence why you wouldn’t marry someone who loved you if you didn’t love them back.

Oh, yeah, I’m not arguing with him. I just wonder if god would want you to pick someone that you love and are happy with to have the best foundation possible for which to raise a family for him.

 

[TimeEntrance]

Who cares how the “jilted virgin” feels? I hate to sound callous but instead of marrying someone who “voluntarily deferred” to him even though he wasn’t her first choice because of his virginity he could be left to find someone who picks him for the right reasons. Reasons that are far more meaningful, powerful, and important than his virginity.

Then evidently virginity is not all that important to that virgin woman.

My point of view was more akin to this. All things being equal if a person values not cooking and eating little children then between “two good men” you pick the one that corresponds to your value of not cooking and eating little children if one of them does.

When women throw out vague phrases like “have a connection with” I interpret that as, “This is my excuse why we women like the outlaw John Dillinger types, and are both “logical” and saintly women.”

Really… I have no problem with women that aren’t virgins and don’t care about male virginity. But if you claim to only be heterosexual than why marry another woman? If you keep your virginity and virginity means so much… than why reject a male virgin for the charm of Jesse James while he’s married to Sandra Bullocks.

Million dollar answer: Because people in general are full of it.

The Gospel according to TimeEntrance. :coffeeread:

 

[asd72]

Why are you being so hostile? I’m speaking from the viewpoint of evolutionary biology. Biology unchecked by societal considerations (or aided by them, either way) has great importance.

I made no implication that women are objects. Ask yourself this question: would a man marry a woman (for life, since he’s a Catholic) with the knowledge that she could/would leave him or have a higher chance of leaving him/not being faithful? Would he want to invest all of his resource potential and focus towards someone who could very well not return it? Those are the biological underpinnings of why men have a harder time than women when it comes to unchastity.

Again, please don’t be hostile. Please try to assume good faith on my part.

We just have totally different views. I see unchasity before marriage as forgivable not ideal. Their current behaviour would concern me more.

 

[sweetpetunia]

Oh, yeah, I’m not arguing with him. I just wonder if god would want you to pick someone that you love and are happy with to have the best foundation possible for which to raise a family for him.

Yes. Absolutely. As long as your desires are rightfully ordered.

 

[Dale_M]

thewanderer can’t understand why men would object to a non-virgin, because she isn’t one. Men can’t understand why a woman could easily accept a non-virgin. Just like liberals and conservatives, they are two different minds that cannot understand each other…

I disagree with all three claims you made in that statement.

Liberal or a conservative person can understand their counterpart if they are willing to make an effort to be charitable and to engage in critical thinking. It is possible to hold two opposing thoughts in one’s mind at the same time.

Perhaps some men object to a spouse who is a non-virgin. Certainly that is an expectation from a more traditional culture. However, I am not sure that most men in the US who are of marriageable age feel that way. Its almost a quaint notion.

This is not to say that virginity shouldn’t be prized and preserved until marriage. But simply because a woman is not a virgin doesn’t make her any less desirable as a spouse. An unchaste attitude would be objectionable, but it is entirely possible that a woman may have had an indiscretion earlier in her life, and then changed her behavior. “Born-again virgin” isn’t a far-fetched idea.

As for women’s expectations of men, I dunno. It may depend upon the woman. I think the common expectation that the man be more worldly and experienced may still carry over to sexual experience for many. It shouldn’t be true, though. Chastity is just as important for a man as for a woman. And its lapse just as forgivable.

 

[David_Thorne]

I’m not sure if you meant for that to come out the way it sounded or came across but it sure was funny.

I know few - no… I know no one - that has sex with other folks that have sex with other people for reasons you just gave that I placed in bold.

Trust… if I had sex with Jennifer Lopez it would not be out of mercy, forgiveness, or compassion for her.

Also… why do I care who J-Lo has sex with or marries? Oh, that’s right, I don’t.

I don’t really care how many wives Osama Bin Laden had either. I don’t care if the American celebrity Jesse James is a notorious womanizer that cheated on his celebrity wife. But I have to say… I really dig Jesse James overall cosmetic style and his tatts and swagger. :coffeeread:

I meant in terms of marriage. I realize some people don’t need much convincing when it comes to sex.

 

[hannajomar]

Who would you rather marry - a non-virgin who has repented and been celibate for 5 years, or a virgin with a masturbation habit?