What's your denomination/religions views towards abortion?

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An unwanted pregnancy puts a woman between a rock and a hard place. Many people believe that carrying a child to full term and then placing it up for adoption is the answer. Well it is not that simple. You are giving away, rejecting a human being and it will affect them for the rest of their life.

Being a adoptee and knowing the pain of this situation I beg people to reconsider their stand on abortion. Sometimes it is the more merciful thing to do if there is no way you can keep the child and make a go of it.

I advocate for sexual responsibility. This is how we need to raise our children. They need to be responsible for any of their actions, and they need to plan accordingly for consequences of those actions. It applies to all of us.

Life may be sacred if it is conceived within a good marriage where people can provide for children, but I don’t always believe it is scared. Mine is not. I was conceived during an affair between a married man and his employee, and then discarded. Nothing sacred about it. Sexual responsibility is so very important. And this is where birth control comes in. Life on earth is hard enough for all of us. We do not have to make it a living hell for ourselves and those people we discard through adoption.
 
As Catholics, we believe in forcing a crying woman who becomes pregnant from rape to have her kid because abortion is murder. If shE doesn’t want a cute little bebe, shE can give it to someone who would appreciate it and take care of it. If you think giving birth is hard, try being drafted in and fighting in a war, which is something women will never have to do because they don’t sign up for the draft.
 
Ok, so there’s an extreme there. But in terms of, will today, in America and the rest ofthe western Christian world, will a woman fight in a war? Probably not, but god bless your family for fighting evil. Overall I think abortion is disgusting because I can’t have a baby of my own ever 😦
 
this is a religious claim. is it not? why should irreligious people be forced to accept your religion?
 
My experience with Protestants is that they are divided into at least three groups when it comes to abortion.
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1. Those evangelicals who strongly believe that abortion is wrong. This group tends to agree with the official Catholic position (not embraced by many Catholics, of course). Polls show that Catholics and Protestants, as a whole, are for and against legal abortion in about the same percentages. 

2. Those Protestants, evangelicals and liberals, who are generally against abortion but accept it under certain conditions. Here are two examples - true stories.

    a. A Catholic wife became pregnant for the sixth time. She and her husband had faithfully followed the approved method to avoid pregnancy but it didn't work - again! The woman had been warned that another pregnancy could imperil her life and that of the new baby. She had had serious trouble during her last two pregnancies (and a couple miscarriages along the way). But, after consulting with their priest and spending considerable time in prayer, they decide to continue the pregnancy. The result? The mother and baby died, and a devastated husband and their five motherless children leave the Catholic Church, he angry that their faith had led them to this disaster. In such a situation, many pro-life Protestants would have said: the abortion is the lesser evil.

     b. A girl with downs syndrome had been gang raped at a group home when supervision failed. She became pregnant. Her parents were Catholics, but they were against her bearing the child. They were afraid that it might be unadoptable. They also didn't want their daughter to undergo the trauma that could be involved in the pregnancy, birth and subsequent emotions. They felt that the rape changed the equation, that God surely would understand an abortion under such circumstances. .Weren't millions of babies miscarried every year, apparently somehow the work (benevolent) work of God? Wasn't God sparing the parents and the baby pain, lifelong handicap, etc.? Then, why would God not permit humans to make a similar-type decision? Pro-life Protestants would accept an early abortion in such a situation. The parents went ahead with the abortion, the priest gave them absolution after hearing all the circumstances, and they have remained in the church.

3. There are many Protestants, especially mainline Protestants, who feel that this is a decision that only can be made by the parents, not by the state. It's a very personal and private matter. They also believe that to forbid legal abortions would be to promote illegal abortions, with all the corruption and health dangers and unnecessary deaths of mothers that existed before Roe v Wade. They might additionally argue that the poor would face discrimination, as the well-to-do could/would fly off to another country and have a legal abortion, something poor people could not afford to do.
 
Even though I may disagree with you at times on some basic issues (after all, we are of different faiths to begin with), I always admire your reasonable way of phrasing your argument. And I agree with you here, that the tone of the defense of one’s position does matter quite a bit.
 
Roy5 said:
My experience with Protestants is that they are divided into at least three groups when it comes to abortion.
Code: 
1. Those evangelicals who strongly believe that abortion is wrong. This group tends to agree with the official Catholic position (not embraced by many Catholics, of course). Polls show that Catholics and Protestants, as a whole, are for and against legal abortion in about the same percentages. 

2. Those Protestants, evangelicals and liberals, who are generally against abortion but accept it under certain conditions. Here are two examples - true stories.

    a. A Catholic wife became pregnant for the sixth time. She and her husband had faithfully followed the approved method to avoid pregnancy but it didn't work - again! The woman had been warned that another pregnancy could imperil her life and that of the new baby. She had had serious trouble during her last two pregnancies (and a couple miscarriages along the way). But, after consulting with their priest and spending considerable time in prayer, they decide to continue the pregnancy. The result? The mother and baby died, and a devastated husband and their five motherless children leave the Catholic Church, he angry that their faith had led them to this disaster. In such a situation, many pro-life Protestants would have said: the abortion is the lesser evil.

     b. A girl with downs syndrome had been gang raped at a group home when supervision failed. She became pregnant. Her parents were Catholics, but they were against her bearing the child. They were afraid that it might be unadoptable. They also didn't want their daughter to undergo the trauma that could be involved in the pregnancy, birth and subsequent emotions. They felt that the rape changed the equation, that God surely would understand an abortion under such circumstances. .Weren't millions of babies miscarried every year, apparently somehow the work (benevolent) work of God? Wasn't God sparing the parents and the baby pain, lifelong handicap, etc.? Then, why would God not permit humans to make a similar-type decision? Pro-life Protestants would accept an early abortion in such a situation. The parents went ahead with the abortion, the priest gave them absolution after hearing all the circumstances, and they have remained in the church.

3. There are many Protestants, especially mainline Protestants, who feel that this is a decision that only can be made by the parents, not by the state. It's a very personal and private matter. They also believe that to forbid legal abortions would be to promote illegal abortions, with all the corruption and health dangers and unnecessary deaths of mothers that existed before Roe v Wade. They might additionally argue that the poor would face discrimination, as the well-to-do could/would fly off to another country and have a legal abortion, something poor people could not afford to do.
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As always, Roy, a reasoned, thoughtful argument and presentation, with which I agree. The hardliners (they would probably call themselves the Catholic faithful) will not agree on this issue no matter what. That is their prerogative.
 
Roy5 said:
  1. There are many Protestants, especially mainline Protestants, who feel that this is a decision that only can be made by the parents, not by the state. It’s a very personal and private matter. They also believe that to forbid legal abortions would be to promote illegal abortions, with all the corruption and health dangers and unnecessary deaths of mothers that existed before Roe v Wade. They might additionally argue that the poor would face discrimination, as the well-to-do could/would fly off to another country and have a legal abortion, something poor people could not afford to do.
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i would tend to agree with this perspective. and while this might be a little off topic, i think that attitudes that are against contraception and sex education also lead to more instances of unwanted pregnancies, and this in turn leads to more abortions.

it seems like there could be a lot of middle ground between people that think abortion is always wrong, and people that promote the use of contraceptives and birth control. i realize it isn’t quite that simple. but it seems like the most pragmatic approach to decreasing the cases of abortion would be to make condoms and birth control as available as possible. instead, it seems like those who are most against abortion are also against using birth control. this is a case of the perfect (abstinence until marriage, every baby is wanted and provided for) being the enemy of the good (less abortions).

but the connection between poverty and access to safe abortions is also very profound. regardless of your views on the subject, rich women will always be able to obtain safe abortions. they may have to take a trip overseas, and it may cost a lot, but it will always be possible. the same access will not always be available to poor women, especially if there were a legal ban on the procedure. indeed, the way it works now is that due to discrepancies in health care, poor women tend to pay more to have an abortion, because the procedure becomes more dangerous and expensive as time goes on.

another thing to consider is that many women that already have children may seek an abortion, depending on their economic status. say you can only afford to send so many kids to college, or whatever. some mothers may feel it was unfair to the children they already have to have to support even more. there are moral arguments to be made either way, but i steadfastly believe that women are in the best position to decide what is right for their family, and that the decision should be left to them and not relegated to the state or federal government.
 
meltzerboy said:
Is it true, as I have heard, that the Church teaches if the mother’s life is in imminent physical danger, it is the fetus who must be saved, rather than the mother, because the fetus has not been baptized and will go to limbo if it dies instead of heaven? This differs from Orthodox Judaism’s position on abortion in this regard, which is that the decision between saving the life of the mother and saving the unborn child is always in the direction of the mother’s life.
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No the Catholic view is that both are entitled to life. You can’t take the life of one to preserve the life of the other. You can however treat a medical condition using methods that could lead to the death of the baby. Such as a woman can choose to have chemotherapy to treat her cancer even if she is pregnant and the chemo could cause her to lose the child.

You can’t kill the baby to save the life of the mother and neither can you kill the mother to save the life of the child.
 
Greg27 said:
I also have a lot of difficulty with the proposition that human life begins at conception.
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Along with reminding people that abortion is a mortal sin and to die in a state of mortal sin is to lose life with God for all eternity.

Adoption is the best alternative for those who don’t want to keep the baby. Just never could understand why killing the baby was so attractive when you could simply find a good home though adoption.
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IanCorrigan said:
I see no reason at while why a fetus wouldn’t change its essential character in stages.

But most importantly, its whatness isn’t determined by any authority outside of the mother. Rather the mother is the will of the divine in determining whether this lump of biology is a ‘baby’ or a ‘product of conception’.
Ain’t nobody’s bidness but her own…
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If that is true than all fathers should get off the hook for child support. The mother is not the will of the divine in that she isn’t the sole cause of the life in her womb.

Baby is a product of conception. Name one other product of conception that is not a baby.
 
vsedriver said:
If that is true than all fathers should get off the hook for child support. The mother is not the will of the divine in that she isn’t the sole cause of the life in her womb.

Baby is a product of conception. Name one other product of conception that is not a baby.
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Exactly, and well posted vsedriver. Seriously Ian, you could drive a truck through your position mate!
 
SnakeMauler said:
As Catholics, we believe in forcing a crying woman who becomes pregnant from rape to have her kid because abortion is murder. If shE doesn’t want a cute little bebe, shE can give it to someone who would appreciate it and take care of it. If you think giving birth is hard, try being drafted in and fighting in a war, which is something women will never have to do because they don’t sign up for the draft.
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What a strange post.

Fistly, let’s consider that In 2000, cases of rape or incest accounted for 1% of abortions. (Source: ^ Guttmacher Institute,“Induced Abortion Facts in Brief” (2002) (13,000 out of 1.31 million abortions in 2000 were on account of rape or incest). Retrieved via InfoPlease 2007-01-07.)

In 2005 there were 820,151 legal abortions in the USA. The reasons given were as follows:
  • 25.5% Want to postpone childbearing
  • 21.3% Cannot afford a baby
  • 14.1% Has relationship problem or partner does not want pregnancy
  • 12.2% Too young; parent(s) or other(s) object to pregnancy
  • 10.8% Having a child will disrupt education or job
  • 7.9% Want no (more) children
  • 3.3% Risk to fetal health
  • 2.8% Risk to maternal health
  • 2.1% Other
So let’s not pretend that this rape thing is a major factor. Legal abortions mean convenience abortions, FACT.

In the case of rape, our first concern must be for the woman, who has suffered an unspeakable evil. Naturally this is unequivocally condemned in CCC 2356.

The woman who has been raped has undergone a terrible trauma, which we can hardly begin to understand, and her well-being is very much the primary concern. The Church is ready to reach out to such women, giving them counsel, healing, and compassion.

The real question here though is the unspoken assumption that an abortion will somehow solve the problem. Seriously, will an abortion help her? Are we seriously assuming that the abortion is somehow a solution to the rape, and somehow helps alleviate the pain and trauma of the woman? How can it?

In fact, all the evidence is that not only does the abortion not alleviate the trauma of the rape, but it brings a trauma of its own. Countless women suffer for years and decades after abortion… I know of women who have been raped and then had abortions, and are in counseling not for the rape but for the abortion! In rape, the trauma is “Someone hurt me.” In abortion, the trauma is “I hurt and killed someone else: my child.” That brings even more grief.

The reason for abortion is still wrong in this case is not based on insensitivity but rather on compassion. The reality is that this compassion actually is more inclusive than that of those who would allow abortion. Why can’t we love them both? Why can’t we extend to the child the same practical compassion which we all agree belongs to the woman? Why can’t we expand the boundaries of those we welcome and care for? Why should helping and loving one (the mom) mean destroying the other (the child)? In reality, you cannot help one without helping the other and you cannot hurt one without hurting the other.

As always, Catholic teaching reveals the truth of this situation, without compromise.
 
And just a plain contradiction of the facts. Some clear thinking cuts to the reality of this situation. It’s not easy, but being raped is not easy, is it?

The discussion then is what is the best way to bring about healing. More killing, more personal, invasive, violence done to the woman and the child, or the application of some real Gospel principles, i.e. love and compassion for all, especially the most vulnerable in society?
 
SnakeMauler said:
Ok, so there’s an extreme there. But in terms of, will today, in America and the rest ofthe western Christian world, will a woman fight in a war? Probably not, but god bless your family for fighting evil. Overall I think abortion is disgusting because I can’t have a baby of my own ever 😦
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Women make up about 20% of the armed forces in the USA, in the UK they make up 9.1% of the armed forces. Not an inconsiderable number, is it?

army.mil/women/

mod.uk/DefenceInternet/FactSheets/WomenInTheArmedForces.htm
 
z0wb13 said:
this is a religious claim. is it not? why should irreligious people be forced to accept your religion?
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Absolutely not. It is (surely) about basic human rights, our responsibilities in society to the most vulnerable members of our society? Sure it is a position consistent with the teaching of the Catholic Church on the matter, but why should that be surprising. The Catholic Church is the largest charitable organisation in the world and helps more people in poverty than any other organisation ever has. The Catholic Church is always the voice for those in our society who have no other voice, it is always the voice of truth and reason.
 
FightingFat said:
And just a plain contradiction of the facts. Some clear thinking cuts to the reality of this situation. It’s not easy, but being raped is not easy, is it?

The discussion then is what is the best way to bring about healing. More killing, more personal, invasive, violence done to the woman and the child, or the application of some real Gospel principles, i.e. love and compassion for all, especially the most vulnerable in society?
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Well. as talked about on the other thread where Abortion became the topic. Emergency Medical is a weak argument to uphold a major problem. The percentage is so low with emergeny medical it cannot be counted as “the issue”. Its not the issue and its contrary to it.
 
vsedriver said:
Along with reminding people that abortion is a mortal sin and to die in a state of mortal sin is to lose life with God for all eternity.

Adoption is the best alternative for those who don’t want to keep the baby. Just never could understand why killing the baby was so attractive when you could simply find a good home though adoption.
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So you think the answer is that you get rid of the child by throwing it away? I ask all of you who believe this is good to rethink your answer. I was thrown away by my mother. Do you think this is a loving thing, to throw your child away to be raised in some unknown situation? Not all adoptions are successful. Some of us endured miserable lives that still haunt us decades later. Finding our birth families open up whole other cans of worms. We were not wanted. We are often outcasts. It it hard to say that our own lives are sacred when we did not come from sacred beginnings and were not treated like we were sacred as infants, but instead as problems that had to be dealt with. Where I was born there we not even doctors in attendance. If the baby didn’t make it, oh well.
 
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