What's your denomination/religions views towards abortion?

[z0wb13]

In 2005 there were 820,151 legal abortions in the USA. The reasons given were as follows:

• 25.5% Want to postpone childbearing
• 21.3% Cannot afford a baby
• 14.1% Has relationship problem or partner does not want pregnancy
• 12.2% Too young; parent(s) or other(s) object to pregnancy
• 10.8% Having a child will disrupt education or job
• 7.9% Want no (more) children
• 3.3% Risk to fetal health
• 2.8% Risk to maternal health
• 2.1% Other

these all seem like perfectly acceptable reasons to have an abortion. if someone doesn’t want any more children, then they don’t want anymore children. it’s like if a person wants more children, they should be able to have more children. it shouldn’t be left up to some bureaucrat or legislator.

the second reason is really something people should think about. if a couple has children already, and that’s all they can afford, then it is unfair to the other children to have more. it is up to every couple to decide how to raise their own children, because they are adults and we live in a free country.

 

[Davina100]

So you think the answer is that you get rid of the child by throwing it away? I ask all of you who believe this is good to rethink your answer. I was thrown away by my mother. Do you think this is a loving thing, to throw your child away to be raised in some unknown situation? Not all adoptions are successful. Some of us endured miserable lives that still haunt us decades later. Finding our birth families open up whole other cans of worms. We were not wanted. We are often outcasts. It it hard to say that our own lives are sacred when we did not come from sacred beginnings and were not treated like we were sacred as infants, but instead as problems that had to be dealt with. Where I was born there we not even doctors in attendance. If the baby didn’t make it, oh well.

I am sorry that you were not treated as sacred. My parents added my youngest brother to our family through adoption. He is pro-abortion and has said similar things to what you have said.

What I don’t understand though is that why is it better to say that the baby that was unplanned is better to be killed than to be given a chance at life?
If the birth mother is not prepared or wants to provide that chance herself than isn’t she being loving by letting her child live with a family that is prepared and wants to care for that child?

I know that some people who have been adopted say they did not feel loved or wanted. (my brother for one) There are bad parents both to their biological children and children they adopted. (none of my siblings felt loved and sacred as we grew up)

Whether adopted or not having an unloving childhood effects people as adults but they have the chance to improve their situation.

Abortion kills the child and snuffs out any chance for that future life.

A baby in the uterus is not a potential human being but a human being with potential.

No one,no matter the circumstance has the right to deny another human being their right to life.

 

[FightingFat]

Not all adoptions are successful. Some of us endured miserable lives that still haunt us decades later.

My sympathies for your experiences.

I think you clearly mitigate your own protest with the words ‘not all’ and ‘some’. I have an adopted sister who I love very much and is a completely integrated member of my family. She grew up in the most awful situation and came to us at 8 years old. She is a well adjusted, happy wife and mother of 2.

The idea that it would have been better that she was killed before she was born is frankly offensive.

We can not know what is to come for any of us. All we can do is the best we can with what is available to each of us at any given time.

these all seem like perfectly acceptable reasons to have an abortion. if someone doesn’t want any more children, then they don’t want anymore children. it’s like if a person wants more children, they should be able to have more children. it shouldn’t be left up to some bureaucrat or legislator.

You view the issue with child-like simplicity. There are repercussions for all our actions. If you think abortion is a medical procedure which does no harm to the mother, you have been manipulated and brain washed by the pro-abortion forces which deny that abortion harms women. Evidence continues to mount, however, that the physical and psychological harm of abortion is widespread.

Of course, children aren’t the only ones hurt by abortion. It affects the lives of all it touches, including the abortion providers. Don’t take my word for it, read this testimony from a doctor who used to be an abortionist:

There are LOADS of similar reports here.

Secondly, your statement makes the a priori assumption that the unborn child has no rights whatsoever, and denies that there may be repercussions in terms of the suffering of the unborn child.

the second reason is really something people should think about. if a couple has children already, and that’s all they can afford, then it is unfair to the other children to have more. it is up to every couple to decide how to raise their own children, because they are adults and we live in a free country.

So slaughter them?

What about if the kids are two and three and the father loses his employment and can’t afford two children? Slaughter one of them?

 

[SnakeMauler]

Women make up about 20% of the armed forces in the USA, in the UK they make up 9.1% of the armed forces. Not an inconsiderable number, is it?

army.mil/women/

mod.uk/DefenceInternet/FactSheets/WomenInTheArmedForces.htm

Yes, I get it. My dad was in the military. I’m not a fool. However, the question is, do women sign up for the draft when they are 18? And the answer is no.

 

[edowitz1]

Roman Catholic Doctrine Vs. The Doctrinal Teaching of the Word of God

Eternal life is a merited reward [1821, 2010]. - Roman Catholicism
Eternal life is the free gift of God (Romans 6:23)

No one can know if he will attain eternal life [1036, 2005] - Roman Catholicism
The believer can know that he has eternal life by the Word of God (1 John 5:13)

The Roman Catholic Church is necessary for salvation [846]. - Roman Catholicism
There is salvation in no one but the Lord Jesus Christ, “for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12)

Purgatory is necessary to atone for sin and clean the soul [1030-1031]. - Roman Catholicism
Purgatory does not exist. Jesus made purification for sins on the cross (Hebrews 1:3)

Mary was preserved from all stain of original sin from the first instant of her conception (the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception) [490-492].
Mary, a descendant of Adam, was born in sin (Psalm 51:5; Romans 5:12)

Mary is the Mother of the Church [963, 975]. - Roman Catholicism
Mary was the earthly mother of Jesus ( John 2:1)

The Magisterium is the authoritative teacher of the Church. [85-87]. - Roman Catholicism
The Holy Spirit is the authoritative teacher of the church (John 14:26; John 16:13, I John 2:27)

The pope, as the Bishop of Rome, is the successor of Peter [882, 936] - Roman Catholicism
Peter had no successor, nor was he a pope.

The pope is infallible in his authoritative teaching [891]. - Roman Catholicism
God alone is infallible (Numbers 23:19)

Scripture and Tradition together are the Word of God [81, 85, 97, 182]. - Roman Catholicism
Scripture is the Word of God (John 10:35, 2 Timothy 3:15-17, 2 Peter 1:20-21). Tradition is the words of men (Mark 7:1-13).

The sacrificial work of redemption is continually carried out through the Sacrifice of the Mass. [1364,1405, 1846]. - Roman Catholicism
The sacrificial work of redemption was finished when Christ gave His life for us on the cross (Ephesians 1:7, Hebrews 1:3).

God desires that consecrated bread and wine be worshiped as divine. [1378-1381] - Roman Catholicism
God forbids the worship of any object, even t hose intended to represent Him (Exodus 20:4-5, Isaiah 42:8)

Justification is lost through mortal sin [1033, 1855, 1874] - Roman Catholicism
Justification cannot be lost. Those whom God justifies will be saved from the wrath of God (Romans 5:8-9).

Justification is furthered by sacraments and good works [1212, 1392, 2010] - Roman Catholicism
Justification is the imputation of the perfect righteousness of God (2 Corinthians 5:21). In Christ the believer has been made complete (Colossians 2:10).

Salvation is attained by cooperating with grace through faith, good works, and participation in the sacraments [183, 1129, 1815, 2002]. - Roman Catholicism
Salvation is attained by grace through faith apart from works (Ephesians 2:8-9). Good works are the result, not the cause, of salvation (Ephesians 2:10).

Mary, “the All-Holy,” lived a perfectly sinless life [411, 493]. - Roman Catholicism
Mary was a sinner; God alone is sinless (Luke 18:19, Romans 3:23, Revelation 15:4).

Mary was a virgin before, during, and after the birth of Christ [496-511]. - Roman Catholicism
Mary remained a virgin until after the birth of Jesus (Matthew 1:25). Later she had other children (Matthew 13:55-56, Psalm 69:8).

Each Sacrifice of the Mass appeases God’s wrath against sin [1371, 1414]. - Roman Catholicism
The once-for-all sacrifice of the cross fully appeased God’s wrath against sin. (Hebrews 10:12-18).

The Bishops, with the Pope, as their head, rule the universal church. [883, 894-896]. - Roman Catholicism
Christ, the head of the body is the Head of the Church. (Colossians 1:18).

The faithful receive the benefits of the cross in fullest measure through the Sacrifice of the Mass [1366, 1407]. - Roman Catholicism
Believers receive the benefits of the cross in fullest measure in Christ through faith (Ephesians 1:3-14).

God has exalted Mary in heavenly glory as Queen of Heaven and Earth [966]. She is to be praised with special devotion [971, 2675]. - Roman Catholicism
The name of the Lord is to be praised, for He alone is exalted above heaven and earth (Psalm 148:13). God commands, “You shall have no other gods before Me.” (Exodus 20:3).

Mary is the co-mediator to whom we can entrust all our cares and petitions 9 968-970, 2677] - Roman Catholicism
Christ Jesus is the one mediator to whom we can entrust all our cares and petitions (1 Timothy 2:5, John 14:13-14, 1 Peter 5:7).

Mary is the co-redeemer, for she participate with Christ in the painful act of redemption [618, 964, 968, 970]. - Roman Catholicism
Christ alone is the Redeemer, for He alone suffered and died for sin (1 Peter 1:18-19).

The sacrifice of the cross is perpetuated in the Sacrifice of the Mass [1323, 1382] - Roman Catholicism
The Sacrifice of the cross is finished (John 19:30).

Indulgences dispensed by the Church for acts of piety release sinners from temporal punishment [1471-1473]. - Roman Catholicism
Jesus releases believers from their sins by His blood. (Revelation 1:5).

The Magisterium has the right to define truth found only obscurely or implicitly in revelation. [66, 88, 2035, 2051]. - Roman Catholicism
No one has the right to go beyond what is written in Scripture (1 Corinthians 4:6, Proverbs 30:5-6).

Scripture and Tradition together are the Church’s supreme role of faith [80, 82]. - Roman Catholicism
Scripture is the church’s rule of faith (Mark 7:7-13, 2 Timothy 3:16-17).

 

[joanofarc2008]

Roman Catholic Doctrine Vs. The Doctrinal Teaching of the Word of God

Eternal life is a merited reward [1821, 2010]. - Roman Catholicism
Eternal life is the free gift of God (Romans 6:23)

No one can know if he will attain eternal life [1036, 2005] - Roman Catholicism
The believer can know that he has eternal life by the Word of God (1 John 5:13)

The Roman Catholic Church is necessary for salvation [846]. - Roman Catholicism
There is salvation in no one but the Lord Jesus Christ, “for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12)

Purgatory is necessary to atone for sin and clean the soul [1030-1031]. - Roman Catholicism
Purgatory does not exist. Jesus made purification for sins on the cross (Hebrews 1:3)

Mary was preserved from all stain of original sin from the first instant of her conception (the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception) [490-492].
Mary, a descendant of Adam, was born in sin (Psalm 51:5; Romans 5:12)

Mary is the Mother of the Church [963, 975]. - Roman Catholicism
Mary was the earthly mother of Jesus ( John 2:1)

The Magisterium is the authoritative teacher of the Church. [85-87]. - Roman Catholicism
The Holy Spirit is the authoritative teacher of the church (John 14:26; John 16:13, I John 2:27)

The pope, as the Bishop of Rome, is the successor of Peter [882, 936] - Roman Catholicism
Peter had no successor, nor was he a pope.

The pope is infallible in his authoritative teaching [891]. - Roman Catholicism
God alone is infallible (Numbers 23:19)

Scripture and Tradition together are the Word of God [81, 85, 97, 182]. - Roman Catholicism
Scripture is the Word of God (John 10:35, 2 Timothy 3:15-17, 2 Peter 1:20-21). Tradition is the words of men (Mark 7:1-13).

The sacrificial work of redemption is continually carried out through the Sacrifice of the Mass. [1364,1405, 1846]. - Roman Catholicism
The sacrificial work of redemption was finished when Christ gave His life for us on the cross (Ephesians 1:7, Hebrews 1:3).

God desires that consecrated bread and wine be worshiped as divine. [1378-1381] - Roman Catholicism
God forbids the worship of any object, even t hose intended to represent Him (Exodus 20:4-5, Isaiah 42:8)

Justification is lost through mortal sin [1033, 1855, 1874] - Roman Catholicism
Justification cannot be lost. Those whom God justifies will be saved from the wrath of God (Romans 5:8-9).

Justification is furthered by sacraments and good works [1212, 1392, 2010] - Roman Catholicism
Justification is the imputation of the perfect righteousness of God (2 Corinthians 5:21). In Christ the believer has been made complete (Colossians 2:10).

Salvation is attained by cooperating with grace through faith, good works, and participation in the sacraments [183, 1129, 1815, 2002]. - Roman Catholicism
Salvation is attained by grace through faith apart from works (Ephesians 2:8-9). Good works are the result, not the cause, of salvation (Ephesians 2:10).
).

You appear to be cutting and pasting this argument on all threads whether it has to do with the topic or not which is known as spamming which is highly obnoxious and causes one to get undue alerts in one’s email that there have been responses to subscribed threads when there have not and is also a violation of forum rules

 

[vsedriver]

this is a religious claim. is it not? why should irreligious people be forced to accept your religion?

not necessarily. Even an atheist can hold that all human life has a right to life.

If society doesn’t hold that all human life is sacred then you risking giving someone else the power of life and death over you at some point in your life.

 

[FightingFat]

not necessarily. Even an atheist can hold that all human life has a right to life.

If society doesn’t hold that all human life is sacred then you risking giving someone else the power of life and death over you at some point in your life.

Do you think it would be fair to say that z0wb13 has his own agenda? He isn’t addressing the argument, instead over laying the argument with what he perceives to be the issue- that pro-life advocates are only pro-life for religious reasons. I think we could safely conclude that z0wb13 knows very little about the actual issue!

 

[vsedriver]

So you think the answer is that you get rid of the child by throwing it away? I ask all of you who believe this is good to rethink your answer. I was thrown away by my mother. Do you think this is a loving thing, to throw your child away to be raised in some unknown situation? Not all adoptions are successful. Some of us endured miserable lives that still haunt us decades later. Finding our birth families open up whole other cans of worms. We were not wanted. We are often outcasts. It it hard to say that our own lives are sacred when we did not come from sacred beginnings and were not treated like we were sacred as infants, but instead as problems that had to be dealt with. Where I was born there we not even doctors in attendance. If the baby didn’t make it, oh well.

people who place their children up for adoption are not necessarily throwing them away. It is the supreme act of love to give life to your child in an age when abortion is legal.

Every child takes the same risk when it comes to parents. Even biological parents can be awful. But statistics do show that adopted children have a better than average chance of having a good family life.

My sister-in-law was adopted (sadly found out very late in life), my niece and nephew are adopted, and my best friend was adopted. My sister in law had a very troubled childhood and early adult life. But she gained a whole new loving family when she married my brother and we gained a wonderful new family member who makes my brother so very, very happy. I’m so glad she wasn’t aborted. My niece and nephew have wonderful lives with very loving parents. Frankly, I do not think of them as adopted. My best friend has struggled with his adoptive family but not because of the adoption.

Any and all of the above could have been biological children and had the same problems.

You were sacred at conception. You were wanted by God. You can create your own family and friends who will love you for yourself. But without the gift of life none of that would be possible.

 

[vsedriver]

Do you think it would be fair to say that z0wb13 has his own agenda? He isn’t addressing the argument, instead over laying the argument with what he perceives to be the issue- that pro-life advocates are only pro-life for religious reasons. I think we could safely conclude that z0wb13 knows very little about the actual issue!

I won’t presume to comment on another poster’s agendas or lack there of. But I have found that if I argue from a non-religious POV it generally stops the discussion.

Beware of drawing lines in the sand, you could find yourself on the wrong side of the line one day.

 

[WTSherman]

I can only speak as a man, not for an entire faith, although I am Catholic and conservative in principal.

Abortion to me is an abomination, not to say I haven’t had experience with it myself.

The underlying motive for me is that people must be expected to take responsibility for their actions before the act of conception, not after.

Such a fundamental principal that has been entirely glossed over recently. It is hard for many to make correct judgments of morality with these sort of fundamentally corrupt laws in place.

 

[kathmandu]

people who place their children up for adoption are not necessarily throwing them away. It is the supreme act of love to give life to your child in an age when abortion is legal.

Every child takes the same risk when it comes to parents. Even biological parents can be awful. But statistics do show that adopted children have a better than average chance of having a good family life.

My sister-in-law was adopted (sadly found out very late in life), my niece and nephew are adopted, and my best friend was adopted. My sister in law had a very troubled childhood and early adult life. But she gained a whole new loving family when she married my brother and we gained a wonderful new family member who makes my brother so very, very happy. I’m so glad she wasn’t aborted. My niece and nephew have wonderful lives with very loving parents. Frankly, I do not think of them as adopted. My best friend has struggled with his adoptive family but not because of the adoption.

Any and all of the above could have been biological children and had the same problems.

You were sacred at conception. You were wanted by God. You can create your own family and friends who will love you for yourself. But without the gift of life none of that would be possible.

I beg to differ. I was not sacred at conception. Please think about what you are saying. It was far from a sacred act. Married man with children having sex with a young woman 12 years his junior.

You do not know the pain of this sort of coming into the world. I was indeed thrown away. An unwanted child. And the people who adopted me loved babies. They did not love children. After I reached 5 or so I was the problem they no longer wanted to deal with. You can’t just give adopted kids back.

I am sure I am not a unique case here. There are many of us in the situation. Yes, we try to make the best of it, but it makes us not quite as good at life as the rest of you. We are not as good at parenting. We are not as good as marriage mates. It extends to the kind of friends and employees we are, even how we worship God. It is not just the adoptees who are affected it is everyone in their lives as well.

I advocate for sexual responsibility, but if people make mistakes and babies are the results every effort needs to be made for the parents to keep their own children. If they cannot then abortion should be an option not only for the individuals but for the rest of society and the negative effects if has on it.

 

[kathmandu]

The question was what’s your denomination/religions view toward abortion. Technically as an Episcopalian that is the religious view. The people who are living are more important than the people who may or may not be, as in an unwanted pregnancy.

your view of moving forward is not the same as mine. I am sorry your wife had the sort of childhood that is beyond most of our experiences. She has made the most of it.

In what way has abortion done damage in her country?

 

[jdarc]

What’s your denomination/religions views towards abortion?

Execution of innocence without a trial

It is evident from the rest of the memo that Gamble conceived the project almost as a traveling road show. A charismatic black minister was to start a revival, with “contributions” to come from other local cooperating ministers. A “colored nurse” would follow, supported by a subsidized “colored doctor.” Gamble even suggested that music might be a useful lure to bring the prospects to a meeting.

Sanger answered Gamble on Dec. 10. 1939, agreeing with the assessment. She wrote: “We do not want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population, and the minister is the man who can straighten that idea out if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members.” In 1940, money for two “Negro Project” demonstration programs in southern states was donated by advertising magnate Albert D. Lasker and his wife, Mary.

(This article first appeared in the January 20, 1992 edition of Citizen magazine)

 

[FightingFat]

The people who are living are more important than the people who may or may not be, as in an unwanted pregnancy.

Sorry, are you postulating here that an unborn child is not alive? :ehh:

 

[SnakeMauler]

L’avortement est TOUJOURS mauvais. Je n’aime pas les gens qui le soutiennent.

 

[FightingFat]

L’avortement est TOUJOURS mauvais. Je n’aime pas les gens qui le soutiennent.

Pourquoi en français ?

 

[kathmandu]

Sorry, are you postulating here that an unborn child is not alive? :ehh:

okay. Not sustainable outside of the mother. Or maybe I could rephrase by saying that those who were here first are more important.

Sorry. Irresponsible sex that produces unwanted pregnancies marks me so angry. I guess many of us were not planned for and our parents made the best of it, but most of you were actually raised by your parents.

And as for the poster who claimed that giving a new born up for adoption is a loving thing…that is one of the most insane things I have ever heard. Shoving a relative out of your life, abandoning them, is not a act of love. What a mess. You should see what this has done to me and my birthmother. After 59 years this does not just go away.

 

[FightingFat]

okay. Not sustainable outside of the mother. Or maybe I could rephrase by saying that those who were here first are more important…

Can I ask how you arrive at that conclusion?

Sorry. Irresponsible sex that produces unwanted pregnancies marks me so angry.

Amen, I think many of us would agree, but the way to address the result is to look at the cause surely?

 

[LDNCatholic]

okay. Not sustainable outside of the mother. Or maybe I could rephrase by saying that those who were here first are more important.

Some invalids are not ‘‘sustainable’’ without the help of their family. I’ll pop down to the local cerebral palsy ward with a shotgun shall I?

Sorry. Irresponsible sex that produces unwanted pregnancies marks me so angry. I guess many of us were not planned for and our parents made the best of it, but most of you were actually raised by your parents.

Sex produces people. Pregnancy is a process, not an end product.

And as for the poster who claimed that giving a new born up for adoption is a loving thing…that is one of the most insane things I have ever heard. Shoving a relative out of your life, abandoning them, is not a act of love. What a mess. You should see what this has done to me and my birthmother. After 59 years this does not just go away.

Pales in comparison to having them murdered by a person who supposedly adheres to the Hippocratic Oath.