What's your opinion on Orthodoxy?

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What I’ve heard often from Orthodox people is that all the supposed sacrifices that the RCC made via VII would probably be better off not made. Sure, it’s good to not speak in such extreme terms anymore, but at the level of doctrine, it is better if Roman Catholics are straightforward and honest in what they feel is irreformable, God-given doctrines, rather than trying to popularize the idea that we have almost everything in common when we don’t. It deludes people, for no real reason. We will not cooperate in that, as from the Orthodox side, there is no doctrine on which we may compromise. That’s why we have such trouble coming together on the issues that need to be resolved for communion to resume. I don’t think it’s because the Romans sacrificed a lot, or that the Holy Spirit is not responsive, or whatever other reason might be given. We believe in our religion as it is, and want to keep it that way. So sacrifices in that sense are not going to be forthcoming, regardless of what Rome feels it has done or not done for us.
 
Credo_ergo_sum said:
I have little hope that the Orthodox and Catholic Churches will be reunited within my lifetime, and I’m not that old.
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Right we tend to see this in view of our own life. The Churchs on the other hand exercise great prudence with their elect.
 
GaryTaylor said:
I don’t follow their teaching closely [what fundamentalist megachurch pastors say], I’m thinking Catherine of Siena here.
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She didn’t care about the tradition of the Church? :confused:
GaryTaylor said:
Right we tend to see this in view of our own life. The Churchs on the other hand exercise great prudence with their elect.
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I’m pretty sure Judgement Day will come before the healing of the Great Schism.
 
Credo_ergo_sum said:
She didn’t care about the tradition of the Church? :confused: I’m pretty sure Judgement Day will come before the healing of the Great Schism.
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Who said that? As to the final sentence you are entitled to your opinion as is everyone.
 
GaryTaylor said:
Who said that?
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Trebor was quoting your sentence that says the practice of the Early Church doesn’t matter and said you sounded like a megachurch pastor, you said you were paraphrasing Catherine of Sienna.
 
Together we form one person and we cannot be separate…

Come Holy Spirit

peace
 
Credo_ergo_sum said:
practice of the Early Church doesn’t matter
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No one ever said this, sorry you seem to be misunderstanding. As to what Mega Church Pastors teach I suppose one who listens to them would know, I don’t. Thats an irrelevant point to me.

As with Catherine of Siena and her view of Tradition I would say thats not even of question considering how she spent her life in regard to the Pope.
 
GaryTaylor said:
No one ever said this, sorry you seem to be misunderstanding. As to what Mega Church Pastors teach I suppose one who listens to them would know, I don’t. Thats an irrelevant point to me.

As with Catherine of Siena and her view of Tradition I would say thats not even of question considering how she spent her life ion regard to the Pope.
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I wouldn’t know, I know almost nothing about Catherine of Sienna. I just read what was posted. I should read up on Western post-schism saints more, but don’t really know where to start.
 
TEPO said:
There’s no other hope for uniting then, with 100,000 competing truths. The Church will remain broken then until Jesus comes again. This is contrary to the Pentecost and the role of the Holy Spirit.
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When you enshrine as dogma, on par with the deposit of Faith, the idea that the whole world is subject to the Pope that can change things on a whim you have created a situation where those under him obey out of fear of damnation and those that knew of no such idea before the schism and can’t see proven from Scripture and Tradition are suspicious.
How is there any other possible unity then submission to the Pope.
Which is claimed to have come from God Himself?
 
dzheremi said:
What I’ve heard often from Orthodox people is that all the supposed sacrifices that the RCC made via VII would probably be better off not made.
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Dear brother, as much as I am for the cause of reconciliation of the Apostolic Churches, I would be hard pressed to identify and name any real, concrete sacrifices made by the RCC post-VII that would at all be characterized be the Orthodox as “real reform” or “a return to Orthodoxy”.

Rather, we have seen Popes who have humbled themselves and have expressed very openly a genuine willingness to re-examine that which the Orthodox Churches find most objectionable, including most especially the role of the Papacy.

This very spirit of ecumenism has in fact been seen by some Catholics as weakness. I would only suggest reflection on this point. Christ humbled Himself before the world for our sake. It will only be with similar humility and imitation of Christ that reconciliation will become possible.
jam070406 said:
I just read a book in which a Romanian Orthodox Metropolitan said:

" In order for the ecumenical movement to get out of the impasse of today, we don’t need more church diplomacy, but more ascesis - we need more fasting and prayer, the only method to exorcise the demons who darken the mind and drive the heart away. The fasting and prayer will lead us to godliness and meekness, so that we recognize our own trespasses without blaming others."
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GaryTaylor said:
Who said that? As to the final sentence you are entitled to your opinion as is everyone.
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Perhaps if Mount Athos breaks off from the mainland and sinks into the Mediterranean sea chances of eventual reunion might get higher. I still wouldn’t bet on it though 🙂
ByzCathCantor said:
Dear brother, as much as I am for the cause of reconciliation of the Apostolic Churches, I would be hard pressed to identify and name any real, concrete sacrifices made by the RCC post-VII that would at all be characterized be the Orthodox as “real reform” or “a return to Orthodoxy”.
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Communion under both species?
 
dzheremi said:
What I’ve heard often from Orthodox people is that all the supposed sacrifices that the RCC made via VII would probably be better off not made. Sure, it’s good to not speak in such extreme terms anymore, but at the level of doctrine, it is better if Roman Catholics are straightforward and honest in what they feel is irreformable, God-given doctrines, rather than trying to popularize the idea that we have almost everything in common when we don’t. It deludes people, for no real reason. We will not cooperate in that, as from the Orthodox side, there is no doctrine on which we may compromise. That’s why we have such trouble coming together on the issues that need to be resolved for communion to resume. I don’t think it’s because the Romans sacrificed a lot, or that the Holy Spirit is not responsive, or whatever other reason might be given. We believe in our religion as it is, and want to keep it that way. So sacrifices in that sense are not going to be forthcoming, regardless of what Rome feels it has done or not done for us.
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Whether the counsel bears fruit or not, the point is that the Holy Church follows the directive of the Holy Spirit, which is one with the Father and the Son.

"When Peter saw him, he said to Jesus, Lord, what about him? Jesus said to him, “What if I want him to remain until I come? What concern is it of yours? You follow me.”
 
jam070406 said:
When you enshrine as dogma, on par with the deposit of Faith, the idea that the whole world is subject to the Pope that can change things on a whim you have created a situation where those under him obey out of fear of damnation and those that knew of no such idea before the schism and can’t see proven from Scripture and Tradition are suspicious.
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The Pope can change nothing on matters of faith and morals, but rather can be breathed upon by the Spirit to fulfill Gods plan in His time. His plan continues to unveil as time moves on, and surely the future will reveal much more.
jam070406 said:
How is there any other possible unity then submission to the Pope. Which is claimed to have come from God Himself?
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We only need to submit to the Holy Spirit, not the Popes. But the Spirit works through the Pope on some occasions.
 
Credo_ergo_sum said:
Perhaps if Mount Athos breaks off from the mainland and sinks into the Mediterranean sea chances of eventual reunion might get higher. I still wouldn’t bet on it though 🙂
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You haven’t been to Mount Athos,it’s a beautiful place,you should visit it 😃
 
TEPO said:
The Pope can change nothing on matters of faith and morals, but rather can be breathed upon by the Spirit to fulfill Gods plan in His time. His plan continues to unveil as time moves on, and surely the future will reveal much more.

We only need to submit to the Holy Spirit, not the Popes. But the Spirit works through the Pope on some occasions.
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I’ve heard this before, but, a Pope completely replaced the Mass which has indeed impacted the Faith of many. Myself included.
 
ByzCathCantor said:
Well, it certainly created an environment that (i) led to the lifting of the mutual anathemas and (ii) began an extended period of formal dialogue between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches. Whether or not such has borne sufficient fruit as to be deemed “substantive” is certainly open to debate, but it does seem that a level of intellectual honesty would have to lead one to conclude and acknowledge, looking over the subsequent 50 years, that the ecumenical dialogue has been far more extensive and certainly more deliberate that in past attempts at reconciliation. It was also done absent politcal considerations and motives, as had been the case in prior attempts.
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Discussion and dialogue are great, but it is only one of many things necessary to restore the Bishop of Rome to our Diptychs. Aside from which it takes two sides to dialogue, if Vatican II enabled the Catholic Church to engage in dialogue, then that’s great, but it isn’t what has enabled dialogue from our side.
 
ByzCathCantor said:
Rather, we have seen Popes who have humbled themselves and have expressed very openly a genuine willingness to re-examine that which the Orthodox Churches find most objectionable, including most especially the role of the Papacy.
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Exactly what evidence do we have that there is this genuine willingness? We saw statements before he was pope, but I’ve not seen any comments after that he is willing to accept that we are autocephalous churches in our own right.
 
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