What's your opinion on Orthodoxy?

[Credo_ergo_sum]

I know,I was kidding.I’ve been to those monasteries (back when I was Orthodox),I spent 2 beautiful months away from the world

I’m so jealous

Have you been at Esphigmenou? How are things there?

 

[Vasilis92]

I’m so jealous

Have you been at Esphigmenou? How are things there?

Of course.Not for long though.
It’s fantastic there.I kinda love monk’s life But you should know they are strict (at Esphigmenou and in general).Waking up at 5.30 am,prayers,breakfast and in the afternoon (and sometimes in the morning) we were constructing monasteries.It was difficult for me though,because you gotta go to sleep at 9.00pm

esfigmenou.gr/index_en.php Here is the site and
esfigmenou.gr/images/slider_pic_05.jpg here a beautiful picture from Esphigmenou.

 

[Credo_ergo_sum]

But you should know they are strict (at Esphigmenou and in general).Waking up at 5.30 am,prayers,breakfast and in the afternoon (and sometimes in the morning) we were constructing monasteries.It was difficult for me though,because you gotta go to sleep at 9.00pm

esfigmenou.gr/index_en.php Here is the site and
esfigmenou.gr/images/slider_pic_05.jpg here a beautiful picture from Esphigmenou.

I’m sure it is. Ascetism and monasticism is fascinating, I only wonder if I could keep up with the strict discipline.

It’s fantastic there.I kinda love monk’s life

Same here. Have you read St. Athanasius ‘Life of St. Anthony’?. If you like monasticism, you will like this book.

 

[Vasilis92]

I’m sure it is. Ascetism and monasticism is fascinating, I only wonder if I could keep up with the strict discipline.

Same here. Have you read St. Athanasius ‘Life of St. Anthony’?. If you like monasticism, you will like this book.

It will be hard in the beginning,but you will get used to it

Thank you very much!I always wanted a book about monasticism.

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

Well, it depends on point of views. For example the dogma on the Papacy, from the Roman Catholic viewpoint, what the Pope is is something that has been there since Biblical Times, since the time when Scripture described as Christ handing over the keys to St. Peter. Others do not see it that way. I think this is the biggest issue against the Catholic Church. Is it really something that was there all along but not clearly understood? Or did they really make it up and just justified it with Scripture?

Yes, it definitely depends on one’s point of view, as neither of our churches believes that we can add new revelation.

A quotation taken from St. Cyprian’s letter to Antonianus has been taken completely out of context to try to make the claim that St. Cyprian believed/taught that being in communion with Rome was equated with being in communion with the Catholic Church. The letter was written to clarify which of the two contestants for the see of Rome was the true Bishop: Novation or Cornelius. The actual quote is: “To be in communion with Cornelius is to be in communion with the Catholic Church.”

I was not thinking of that quote when I mentioned St. Cyprian.

Other quotes from the same letter which is not used much, but helps to clarify the opinion held by St. Cyprian in regards to whether the bishop of Rome was above other bishops: “Cornelius our colleague” and “while the bond of concord remains, and the undivided sacrament of the Catholic Church endures, every bishop disposes and directs his own acts, and will have to give an account of his purposes to the Lord.” And when read in the context of St. Cyprian’s other sayings/writings: “For neither does any of us set himself up as a bishop of bishops”

An excellent quote. The pope is not and has never been “a bishop of bishops.”

It’s one thing to cite Saints to support the Papacy as it has developed from the original seed, but it’s quite another to cite a Saint who via a reading in context says the opposite. It takes away from the validity of what we believe and hurts our Church’s position.

Doesn’t Dr. Scott Hahn say something like: a text not in context is a pretext?

Let’s just be careful

Agreed. As I pointed out above, none of the citations you give are the one I was thinking of.

I don’t want to cite it, however, because it just feels too… guerrilla. Orthodox believers know what the early Church Fathers say; educated believers of all apostolic churches do. And we all have our interpretations. It does no good to fling quotes at each other, so even if I bring them up, I try to avoid, well, flinging them.

Pope Paul VI made the Novus Ordo into the regular Latin rite liturgy. A very unfortunate decision, in my view. This form of the Mass, in practice, far too often seems to pander to Protestant sensibilities as a service toned down in its “formality” and fails to offer those in attendance an edifying context in which to worship God with devotion and reverence.

Yeah, it is rather unfortunate. I’m a Latin Catholic, and I do long for the day that the Mass is celebrated in a reverent, traditional manner. I’ve been to Rome, and the Ordinary Form as celebrated in, say, St. Peter’s is beautiful and above reproach. Hopefully more parishes that use the Ordinary Form of the Mass will move in this direction.

There are good Eastern Orthodox replies, however, to the passages from those Fathers endlessly cited in Catholic apologetics.

Yes. If they had no basis for their position, the argument would be over. No one citation from the early Church Fathers - or even set of citations - will magically convince the other side.

I think many apologists need to recognize that the educated people of all apostolic communions have seen these quotes before. “Gotcha” apologetics is always a failure and almost always rather insulting.

 

[adrift]

Just as in the secular world, in order to truly heal a rift, it is necessary to see that such a rift is likely the result of actions of all parties involved. Humility allows one to admit their faults without necessarily compromising ones principles, in order to seek true reconciliation and mutual foregiveness. Pride, on the other hand, creates the entrenchement and hardening of the heart that derails many such attempts.

Thank you for the answer which I agree totally with. What actions were involved that each needs to be forgiven. I think I know what on the West side but what do you see for both sides?

 

[Credo_ergo_sum]

I was not thinking of that quote when I mentioned St. Cyprian.

I suppose it’s the one about the source of sacerdotal unity? That was my first guess.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Thank you for the answer which I agree totally with. What actions were involved that each needs to be forgiven. I think I know what on the West side but what do you see for both sides?

You’re welcome! I wish I could answer concisely, but as you likely know, entire books have been written on this subject!

I recently completed my first reading of Rome and the Eastern Churches by Aidan Nichols. I’m a really slow and terrible reader, but I got through this book fairly quickly. While others may have differing opinions, I though it was a relatively fair and balanced study of the history of the relations of the Churches, East and West, and would recommend it if you are interested in the subject.

 

[manualman]

What impresses me most about EO is their sheer durability and ability to survive in the face of tremendous external pressure, especially the constant threat of Islam over the centuries. What I wish catholics would learn from the EO is how to faithfully resist the pressures of living within a culture hostile to our faith without having to physically withdraw from that culture.

What I wish the EO would do for us catholics is to fix their IFF transponders so that they stop IDing us as ‘foes’ and opening fire.

 

[Credo_ergo_sum]

What I wish the EO would do for us catholics is to fix their IFF transponders so that they stop IDing us as ‘foes’ and opening fire.

The last time they did that Constantinople got sacked

 

[Trebor135]

What impresses me most about EO is their sheer durability and ability to survive in the face of tremendous external pressure, especially the constant threat of Islam over the centuries. What I wish catholics would learn from the EO is how to faithfully resist the pressures of living within a culture hostile to our faith without having to physically withdraw from that culture.

What I wish the EO would do for us catholics is to fix their IFF transponders so that they stop IDing us as ‘foes’ and opening fire.

Haha. Apart from vigorously debating online about the filioque and the Vatican I dogmas, how do you believe Orthodox are targeting Catholics these days?

 

[Credo_ergo_sum]

Haha. Apart from vigorously debating online about the filioque and the Vatican I dogmas, how do you believe Orthodox are targeting Catholics these days?

Here’s an elder speaking. To say it doesn’t exist is silly.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

What impresses me most about EO is their sheer durability and ability to survive in the face of tremendous external pressure, especially the constant threat of Islam over the centuries. What I wish catholics would learn from the EO is how to faithfully resist the pressures of living within a culture hostile to our faith without having to physically withdraw from that culture.

We should be ever mindful that there are also Eastern Catholics in these regions of the world, who also live under the same oppression and intolerance, if not outright violence at times. Their very existence is threatened on many levels.

These conditions strongly favor joint Orthodox-Catholic response and mutual support.

 

[dzheremi]

How is a monk of another church answering a question he is asked by an interviewer about the Roman Catholic Church in any way “targeting” Catholics, Credo?

 

[manualman]

The last time they did that Constantinople got sacked

So we mug our brothers once every 1200 years or so. Nobody’s perfect! (Besides you have 400 more years before you need to worry about us again) Heck the other 11 sons of Israel sold Joseph into Egyptian slavery and HE didn’t hold an 800 year grudge… Anyways, at least it was still Constantinople afterwards. Once we became essentially foes, something rather worse happened, no?

That’s not gloating, mind you. The EO just had the bad luck to be mostly in between the muslim hordes and the western church. One wonders if we could have more successfully fended them off if not for the mutual distrust, suspicion and self-interest. Woulda, coulda, shoulda…

 

[Trebor135]

We should be ever mindful that there are also Eastern Catholics in these regions of the world, who also live under the same oppression and intolerance, if not outright violence at times. Their very existence is threatened on many levels.

Indeed. Let’s not forget about the Copts–of all Middle Eastern and North African Christians outside Iraq, they’re in the most precarious position right now. Unfortunately their Syrian brethren may join them in suffering persecution fairly soon.

These conditions strongly favor joint Orthodox-Catholic response and mutual support.

Yup.

 

[Trebor135]

Here’s an elder speaking. To say it doesn’t exist is silly.

My screenreading program doesn’t seem able or willing to read out the subtitles, unfortunately. What is this elder saying?

 

[josie_L]

You are aware that the Roman Catholic church was wiped out of north Africa, aren’t you?

Wasn’t that a result of Muslim hordes wielding swords?

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Indeed. Let’s not forget about the Copts–of all Middle Eastern and North African Christians outside Iraq, they’re in the most precarious position right now. Unfortunately their Syrian brethren may join them in suffering persecution fairly soon.

The Pope’s planned visit to Lebanon takes on ever greater significance with each passing day and development in these nations.

 

[TrueLight]

What I’ve heard often from Orthodox people is that all the supposed sacrifices that the RCC made via VII would probably be better off not made. Sure, it’s good to not speak in such extreme terms anymore, but at the level of doctrine, it is better if Roman Catholics are straightforward and honest in what they feel is irreformable, God-given doctrines, rather than trying to popularize the idea that we have almost everything in common when we don’t. It deludes people, for no real reason. We will not cooperate in that, as from the Orthodox side, there is no doctrine on which we may compromise. That’s why we have such trouble coming together on the issues that need to be resolved for communion to resume. I don’t think it’s because the Romans sacrificed a lot, or that the Holy Spirit is not responsive, or whatever other reason might be given. We believe in our religion as it is, and want to keep it that way. So sacrifices in that sense are not going to be forthcoming, regardless of what Rome feels it has done or not done for us.