What's your opinion on Orthodoxy?

[PRmerger]

I know I’m some random person but, “In jeopardy” as in a Catholic who doesn’t believe that might lose his/her soul or a Catholic who doesn’t believe that will lose his/her soul?

No one can tell you whether you’re going to lose your soul or not.

That’s purely between you and God.

Now, if you embrace heresy, to the degree that you know what’s true and reject it, is the degree of your culpability.

 

[Credo_ergo_sum]

No one can tell you whether you’re going to lose your soul or not.

That’s purely between you and God.

Now, if you embrace heresy, to the degree that you know what’s true and reject it, is the degree of your culpability.

You can’t embrace what you know to be heresy, that would be insane.

 

[PRmerger]

You can’t embrace what you know to be heresy, that would be insane.

My bad. If you embrace something that is heresy, to the degree that you know it’s true and reject it, is the degree of your culpability.

 

[benjohnson]

Typically, ‘in jeopardy’ implies a possibility but not absolute certainty. That being said, I am no mind-reader.

As I understand it, if you understand and obstinately reject defined Catholic dogma, it is considered heresy.

Canon 751: "Heresy is the obstinate denial or doubt, after baptism, of a truth which must be believed by divine and Catholic faith.

Catholic teaching indicates that you don’t certainly don’t want to die unrepentant in such a state.

 

[josie_L]

Certainly the definition of primacy is not the same between the two communions.

That is most definitely true.

For example, the primate of the RC church in the USA is the Archbishop of Baltimore (and the primate of Italy is the Archbishop of Rome). **What does that mean in practice? Almost nothing. **Most RC don’t even know the Archbishop of Baltimore has primacy in the USA. The position has so atrophied under the increasingly powerful papacy in recent centuries it has even lost it’s symbolic value.

Although, I don’t wish to turn this into a thread about the papacy, what I emboldened above pretty much describes how Catholics feel about the general Orthodox interpretation of “first among equals” or “protos among the patriarchs”, i.e., it is an honorary position solely. Moreover, I’m not too sure in this instance if primacy means what you think it means, i.e., the diocese of Baltimore was the first Catholic diocese in the U.S., hence it is referred to as the premier see. Also, an Archbishop as defined by the Catholic Church is stated as such:

An archbishop or metropolitan, in the present sense of the term, is a bishop who governs a diocese strictly his own, while he presides at the same time over the bishops of a well-defined district composed of simple dioceses but not of provinces. Hence none of these subordinate bishops rule over others. These bishops are called the suffragans or comprovincials. The archbishop’s own diocese is the archdiocese. The several dioceses of the district form the archiepiscopal, or metropolitan, province.

 

[TrueLight]

I did notice, especially at the beginning of the thread, quite a love fest for Orthodoxy.

I wonder if I were to start a thread called “Orthodox, what is your opinion of the Catholic Church” , if we’d get the same love fest.

I’m only bringing this up to say that we need to remember that there are differences and everything is not rosy.

 

[Trebor135]

Hi Trebor,

Not sure if you knew that late last year our Church implemented a new English translation of the Novus Ordo Mass, including our Nicene Creed.

If you already knew, do you like it any better than the original Novus Ordo Mass?

I like how the new translation brings the wording into line with other liturgies (the Melkites would have been saying “وبي روحك” “wa bi rouHika”] for many moons before the Latins realized there was a difference by not responding “and with your spirit”).

But the Latin Catholic parish I praised earlier (check this out) had just as commendable a Mass before as after the new translation was implemented. And the other parish I lamented upthread had just as awful a service before as after the switch.

Lord, help us.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Well, originally you said, “Its not of issue what the early church did.” Fundamentalist megachurch pastors, if asked to comment, would echo that sentiment and reply that we should go by the Bible alone.

St. Catherine of Siena never spoke

Catherine of Siena never spoke In fact what she states in Dialogues mimicks the CCC today in this regard. I guess I assumed you would have known that. What the early church did is taken into consideration in the CCC with this Sacrament, so its not of issue. Perhaps it is for you?

As far as Fundamentalist megachurch pastors. no idea I’m not on that station. I guess you know though from the above statement.

 

[Nine_Two]

It always seemed to me that reconciliation would always be at the expense of the Catholic Church.

What sort of compromise would the Orthodox offer?

We’ll leave you alone to do your own thing if you leave us alone to do our own thing, with the only limitation being the unity of the faith.

 

[TrueLight]

We’ll leave you alone to do your own thing if you leave us alone to do our own thing, with the only limitation being the unity of the faith.

Isn’t that what we’re doing now?

 

[Nine_Two]

Isn’t that what we’re doing now?

Not by choice.

And without the unity of faith thing.

 

[gus]

What impresses me most about EO is their sheer durability and ability to survive in the face of tremendous external pressure, especially the constant threat of Islam over the centuries. What I wish catholics would learn from the EO is how to faithfully resist the pressures of living within a culture hostile to our faith without having to physically withdraw from that culture.
The Catholic Church hasn’t exisisted in an environment of hostility. When did that dream occur
Was is when the Empire tried to destroy us.
Was is when Rome was sacked and western Europe was in constant state of war from Ariana German tribes.Moslems
Lombards Vikings and various and sundry tribes
Was is power Hungary petty nobility.
No maybe it was the Reformation and subsequent lost wars
Which destroyed.Which resulted in vsst destruction of the European Monastic DydtemWas it when Popes were murdered
or imprissoned.How about the French Revuluntion and Napoleon which almost destroyed the Church in France and resulted in the imprisonment of the Pope Maybe it was the Italian reunivacation which made the Pope s prisioner of the Italian King
I sure the two world wars were fun for the imprisoned clerics
Communism was also allot of fun.
With a brave Polish and Hungarian Cardinals imprisoned in Or is know when the zChurch is target one of the leaders of the secular revolution which treathens to destroy 2000 years of Christain morality.
A war. I’m not sure whose side the Orthodox are on.

In my naive innocent days I had an Orthodox gentlemen explain to me that Between the Moslems Communist and Catholics. Catholics are by far their worse enemy…
Reunifaction of these Church’s
will never happen. I fine with it.
What I wish the EO would do for us catholics is to fix their IFF transponders so that they stop IDing us as ‘foes’ and opening fire.

 

[GaryTaylor]

fix their IFF transponders?

 

[TrueLight]

Not by choice.

And without the unity of faith thing.

Sorry, what is the unity of faith thing again?

 

[dzheremi]

Where we (plural) have the same faith.

From the Agpeya (the Coptic Book of the Hours/Horologion):
**
THE FAITH OF THE CHURCH:**
*
One is God the Father of everyone.

One is His Son, Jesus Christ the Word, Who took flesh and died and rose from the dead on the third day, and raised us with Him.

One is the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, one is His Hypostasis, proceeding from the Father, purifying the whole creation, and teaching us to worship the Holy Trinity, one in divinity and one in essence. We praise Him* and bless Him forever. Amen. +++*

(*- the Holy Trinity)

Granted, there is a lot more that we say, but this is a concise statement of faith for us. I’m sure the Byzantines have similar things that they say.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Granted, there is a lot more that we say, but this is a concise statement of faith for us. I’m sure the Byzantines have similar things that they say.

We just go with the “old, approved formula”: the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed (without the Filioque)

Surely the Orthodox would not object

 

[TrueLight]

Okay so it looks to me like we already have the unity of faith based on the posts by dzheremi and byz. So the only difference I see is the filioque.

Is that the compromise the Catholic Church is expected to make?

BTW, in my opinion she has already made that concession.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

I did notice, especially at the beginning of the thread, quite a love fest for Orthodoxy.

TL - if I may suggest, perhaps more a “healthy respect” than a “love fest” …

We are indeed called as faithful Catholics to appreciate that which we have in common with our Orthodox brothers and sisters, as well as to conscientiously examine that which keeps us in a state of imperfect communion.

Even though I am a “cradle Byzantine”, it has taken me years to develop the perspective I now have on Orthodoxy and Eastern Catholicism, as I grew up with a more impure (Latinized, if you will) version of Byzantine Catholicism and manner of worship. That perspective in an of itself has helped me understand many of the comments often heard from Orthodox circles on the Eastern Catholic Churches, which otherwise might be construed as dreadfully critical and offensive.

As I have come to know you as a traditional Catholic, I would dare speculate that over time you too will develop a greater respect for the main tenets of Orthodoxy and Orthodox life and worship. Like all such endeavors, however, it requires one to be able to see the other perspective, whether one ultimately agrees with it or not.

Peace be with you!

 

[Cavaradossi]

Okay so it looks to me like we already have the unity of faith based on the posts by dzheremi and byz. So the only difference I see is the filioque.

Is that the compromise the Catholic Church is expected to make?

BTW, in my opinion she has already made that concession.

But papal infallibility is part of the Roman Catholic faith, while it is not part of ours. This is a rather significant difference, is it not?

 

[babochka]

That what I believe too,although we believe that Orthodoxy and Hellenism is one,and these are what make up Greece.So (that’s what we say) if you are Greek it means that you are Orthodox Christian.In that sense,there is no national or religion identity.

That is certainly the attitude I’ve seen from Greek Americans. When you ask their religion, they answer that they are Greek. Unfortunately, in my experience, it does not mean that they have said a prayer in years or set foot in church since their yiayia’s funeral.