What's your opinion on Orthodoxy?

[ConstantineTG]

Well, how would you describe your experience in all honesty?

To butt into the conversation, my experience with the Orthodox (OCA) has been wonderful. But I went to a vibrant community with a wonderful priest. I can’t honestly claim that every Orthodox parish will be like this.

 

[ComeHome2Rome]

Well, how would you describe your experience in all honesty?

I am so glad you asked. My experience at the Orthodox Church was, in all honesty, absolutely amazing!

The missals were in Greek & English, so I was able to follow along reading the prayers that were being sung. We don’t have anything that compares. The pre-communion prayer was so magnificant you wouldn’t believe me if I told you!

And when it came to communion (I refrained from receiving, of course) but I saw that even the babies received Jesus in the Eucharist and that reminded me of the Bible verse where Jesus said with an infant on his lap “Let the little children come unto me.”

I came away feeling that I’d worshipped God in a way I’ve never come close to worshipped Him in any other Church tradition, including our own.

I now know why the Popes BXVI & BPJPII spoke so highly of our sister churches’ liturgical traditions! I come away wondering how did we Catholics lose this majesty in how we worship?

At the end the priests shook the hand of everyone who attended and greeted them each personally and gave them bread to break the fast.

Afterwards, I met people in the coffee hour. Very friendly. Many Greeks, but also many non-Greeks even two women (unrelated to each other) from India who can trace their individual family lineage as Christians back to the Apostle St. Thomas. Just amazing. And the lady in the bookstore asked me to have my daughter, the teenager, to call her “Thea” that means Auntie in Greek. Welcomed into the Christian family was how I felt.

Lots to consider and pray through. Like I totally need to understand how, we have a Pope, and lost this yet they don’t have a Pope, but have maintain this beautiful and historical worship of Jesus. I am now recalling that article linked on here that I read, was it just yesterday, that said something like the Catholic Church has unity in administration and the Orthodox Church has unity in liturgy.

I’ve just got to find a way to rationalize our worship vs their liturgy and the Pope vs no Pope and the loss of or maintainace of liturgical worship that elevates all of the senses smells and bells were only a small part of the experience which included sights and taste and touch vs the maintainace of it. I’m scared too because yesterday I was told that the only way I could come up with to, as rationally as possible, explain how different popes could promote and teach exact opposite things in matters of Faith is considered a heresy. What if the Catholic Church got it wrong and the Orthodox Church got it right?

My baby loved the icons and just kept looking at all of them as she twisted around in my arms to see the next one - she was particularly drawn to the icon of Sts. Constantine and Helen and Jesus in the dome. She always turned to look when the priest was incensing and the censor’s bells jingled. I was helped with the stroller going up stairs. And was asked to sign up the baby for the nursery Sunday school program they operate during the school year to expose the baby to the teachings of Jesus in a program formated to educate the infants. Like CCD for babies? How cool is that?

I am extremely drawn to go back next week! I feel like a lightening bolt from God struck me, in a totally good way

P.S. Just remembered that I left the bulletin & some other brochures on Baptism, Communion, Liturgy in the trunk of my car. 11:24 pm and 86 degrees, I’m totally heading outside to get them to read

 

[TEPO]

To butt into the conversation, my experience with the Orthodox (OCA) has been wonderful. But I went to a vibrant community with a wonderful priest. I can’t honestly claim that every Orthodox parish will be like this.

Oh, well thank you very much for that. . For years I’ve been noticing the Temples now, and I’ve always been very curious what it would be like, but I’m one of those types of people who are extremely cautious in protecting the purity of my faith. Of course I’ve been accidentally subject to small amounts of Protestantism from television, but I’m extremely selective on any books I read as to not mix-up my faith with that of any other -that is anymore than it has been. . But that’s probably just me being overprotective.

 

[TEPO]

I am so glad you asked. My experience at the Orthodox Church was, in all honesty, absolutely amazing!

The missals were in Greek & English, so I was able to follow along reading the prayers that were being sung. We don’t have anything that compares. The pre-communion prayer was so magnificant you wouldn’t believe me if I told you!

And when it came to communion (I refrained from receiving, of course) but I saw that even the babies received Jesus in the Eucharist and that reminded me of the Bible verse where Jesus said with an infant on his lap “Let the little children come unto me.”

I came away feeling that I’d worshipped God in a way I’ve never come close to worshipped Him in any other Church tradition, including our own.

I now know why the Popes BXVI & BPJPII spoke so highly of our sister churches’ liturgical traditions! I come away wondering how did we Catholics lose this majesty in how we worship?

At the end the priests shook the hand of everyone who attended and greeted them each personally and gave them bread to break the fast.

Afterwards, I met people in the coffee hour. Very friendly. Many Greeks, but also many non-Greeks even two women (unrelated to each other) from India who can trace their individual family lineage as Christians back to the Apostle St. Thomas. Just amazing. And the lady in the bookstore asked me to have my daughter, the teenager, to call her “Thea” that means Auntie in Greek. Welcomed into the Christian family was how I felt.

Lots to consider and pray through. Like I totally need to understand how, we have a Pope, and lost this yet they don’t have a Pope, but have maintain this beautiful and historical worship of Jesus. I am now recalling that article linked on here that I read, was it just yesterday, that said something like the Catholic Church has unity in administration and the Orthodox Church has unity in liturgy.

I’ve just got to find a way to rationalize our worship vs their liturgy and the Pope vs no Pope and the loss of or maintainace of liturgical worship that elevates all of the senses smells and bells were only a small part of the experience which included sights and taste and touch vs the maintainace of it. I’m scared too because yesterday I was told that the only way I could come up with to, as rationally as possible, explain how different popes could promote and teach exact opposite things in matters of Faith is considered a heresy. What if the Catholic Church got it wrong and the Orthodox Church got it right?

My baby loved the icons and just kept looking at all of them as she twisted around in my arms to see the next one - she was particularly drawn to the icon of Sts. Constantine and Helen and Jesus in the dome. She always turned to look when the priest was incensing and the censor’s bells jingled. I was helped with the stroller going up stairs. And was asked to sign up the baby for the nursery Sunday school program they operate during the school year to expose the baby to the teachings of Jesus in a program formated to educate the infants. Like CCD for babies? How cool is that?

I am extremely drawn to go back next week! I feel like a lightening bolt from God struck me, in a totally good way

P.S. Just remembered that I left the bulletin & some other brochures on Baptism, Communion, Liturgy in the trunk of my car. 11:24 pm and 86 degrees, I’m totally heading outside to get them to read

Wow, that sounds amazing… I don’t know what to say -I guess I’m just going to have to reflect on these things you said for a while. But it is getting late here, as I’m sure you know. We’re both from the same State ya know.

Peace,
TEPO

 

[Trebor135]

I am so glad you asked. My experience at the Orthodox Church was, in all honesty, absolutely amazing!

Thanks for sharing in such depth–it was a joy to read. (I attended an Antiochian Orthodox Divine Liturgy this afternoon, and have been to Orthodox and Eastern Catholic services before, so can definitely relate! If you’d like to go somewhere you can partake in communion, I highly recommend that you search out Ukrainian and Melkite parishes in your area.)

I am now recalling that article linked on here that I read, was it just yesterday, that said something like the Catholic Church has unity in administration and the Orthodox Church has unity in liturgy.

This one, right?

 

[5Loaves]

We don’t have anything that compares. The pre-communion prayer was so magnificant you wouldn’t believe me if I told you!

…I came away feeling that I’d worshipped God in a way I’ve never come close to worshipped Him in any other Church tradition, including our own.

I now know why the Popes BXVI & BPJPII spoke so highly of our sister churches’ liturgical traditions! I come away wondering how did we Catholics lose this majesty in how we worship?

Lots to consider and pray through. Like I totally need to understand how,** we** have a Pope, and lost this yet they don’t have a Pope, but have maintain this beautiful and historical worship of Jesus…

The Latin Church isn’t the only Church in the Catholic Church. You are leaving out the rest of us Catholics who worship with exactly the same Divine Liturgy, not the Roman Rite of the Latin Church, and whose babies and children do receive Eucharist. There are 22 Eastern and Oriental Catholic particular Churches , *sui iuris *. We worship in Rites other than the Roman Rite. In the case of my Church it is the Byzantine liturgical Rite.

 

[ComeHome2Rome]

The Latin Church isn’t the only Church in the Catholic Church. You are leaving out the rest of us Catholics who worship with exactly the same Divine Liturgy, not the Roman Rite of the Latin Church, and whose babies and children do receive Eucharist. There are 22 Eastern and Oriental Catholic particular Churches , *sui iuris *. We worship in Rites other than the Roman Rite. In the case of my Church it is the Byzantine liturgical Rite.

I want to make sure that I’m not confused, these other 21 rites were (parts of various) Orthodox Churches who united themselves with our Pope at some point in the 1400s to the present time and did not have a continuous unity with the Pope from their beginning to present. Is that correct or wrong?

On a side realization, that would confirm the article in saying that the unity of the Catholic is Administrative not Liturgical.

 

[ComeHome2Rome]

Thanks for sharing in such depth–it was a joy to read. (I attended an Antiochian Orthodox Divine Liturgy this afternoon, and have been to Orthodox and Eastern Catholic services before, so can definitely relate! If you’d like to go somewhere you can partake in communion, I highly recommend that you search out Ukrainian and Melkite parishes in your area.)

This one, right?

Totally cool that we’ve had the same experience within the Orthodox Church even though we’ve visited different ones - you Antiochian and me Greek. Someone these Churches have maintained unity of Liturgy even though in different cultures.

No, it was a priest who converted to the Catholic Church rather than the Orthodox Church in like the 1970s in Australia.

 

[ComeHome2Rome]

Wow, that sounds amazing… I don’t know what to say -I guess I’m just going to have to reflect on these things you said for a while. But it is getting late here, as I’m sure you know. We’re both from the same State ya know.

Peace,
TEPO

It totally was!

Yes, it is getting late. I’m not tired yet still excited about today’s worship experience that was out of this world. I feel like I was taken to heaven today

I will certainly be reflecting for some time to come

And with your spirit,
CH2R

 

[Trebor135]

Totally cool that we’ve had the same experience within the Orthodox Church even though we’ve visited different ones - you Antiochian and me Greek.

I’ve also been to services of the American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Church, so can recommend those guys too (the Ruthenian Greek Catholic Church being their counterpart in communion with the pope).

Someone these Churches have maintained unity of Liturgy even though in different cultures.

Indeed.

No, it was a priest who converted to the Catholic Church rather than the Orthodox Church in like the 1970s in Australia.

You must be thinking of this.

Edit: When I click that link, the article doesn’t appear. But when I do a search on Google.ca of the title of the article in quotation marks–

“Why I Didn’t Convert to Eastern Orthodoxy”

–the link above is the second result, and it mysteriously works.

 

[5Loaves]

I want to make sure that I’m not confused, these other 21 rites were (parts of various) Orthodox Churches who united themselves with our Pope at some point in the 1400s to the present time and did not have a continuous unity with the Pope from their beginning to present. Is that correct or wrong?

The Maronite Church has not been out of communion with the Holy See. Someone else will need to clarify about the Chaldean Catholic Church, the Italo-Albanian Catholic Church and the Syro-Malabar which may have remained in communion with the Holy See.

On a side realization, that would confirm the article in saying that the unity of the Catholic is Administrative not Liturgical.

I really don’t know what that means, to return to your original quote “something like the Catholic Church has unity in administration and the Orthodox Church has unity in liturgy.”

What is “unity in liturgy”? The Orthodox have more than one Liturgy, for example the Syrian’s Liturgy, and the Western Rite are not the same as the Divine Liturgy of St John Chrysostom you worshiped in today. And because the Orthodox Liturgy has always been in a version of the vernacular and each Orthodox Church is a separate jurisdiction, locally when I go from one Orthodox Church to another (Greek, to ROCOR, to OCA) each has a different English translation. So in a group of Orthodox who are from these different Churches even when we pray a prayer which is prayed in every gathering “Oh Heavenly King…” because people are from different Orthodox Churches and are using different translations, we are not all saying the same words. I’m presently participating in a “Liturgical English Study Group” with the Orthodox Institute in SF concerning itself in part with this issue.

What is “unity in administration”? Although we are in communion with the Holy See, the Eastern and Oriental Catholic Churches are not under the Canon Law of the Latin Church, but have our separate Codex Canonum Ecclesiarum Orientalium, Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches and some Churches sui iuris, such as the Byzantine/Ruthenian Church, have their own additional canons. There is not a unity East and West in how bishops are elected or appointed.

A** patriarchal Eastern Church itself elects its bishops who are to serve within its own territory, but other bishops are appointed by the Pope.[16] Before the election of a bishop, the patriarchal synod considers the names proposed by its members and draws up a list of those it considers to be valid candidates for episcopacy; this is communicated to the Pope and any name for which he refuses his assent is removed from the list.[17] When the synod then comes to elect a bishop, no further procedure is required if the person chosen is on the list; but if he is not on the list, the assent of the Pope is needed before asking the newly elected to accept his appointment.[18] The same arrangement holds for a Church headed by a Major Archbishop.[19] In the official bulletins and news media of the Holy See, these appointments are published as decisions of the Eastern Church in question, not of the Pope. The procedure for appointing bishops of other Eastern Churches and those bishops of patriarchal and major archiepiscopal Churches who are to serve outside the territory of the Church in question is similar to that for Latin bishops, and the appointments are published as acts of the Pope**

I’m sure there are other examples of ways in which that statement “something like the Catholic Church has unity in administration and the Orthodox Church has unity in liturgy” really isn’t useful.

 

[GaryTaylor]

This is exactly what he wrote …
" It seemed to me the discussions always ended in ‘Orthodoxy is right, you’re wrong, and what you say doesn’t matter.’ "

Yup that would be it, leaves no room for dialogue is what I said.

In Protestant churches, people get together after worship for coffee and pastries and they can chat all about their differing religious perspectives, which can be many and varied. They can all sit around the coffee table and say “that’s nice” to one another. Perhaps in this sharing they learn from one another…

Sounds like this is true in Orthodoxy also from the above posts to some degree. Schools never out.

(Among Latin Catholics, a similar conversation can be observed between the Molinists and the Thomists, Augustinians and Franciscans, I suppose.).

Oh no doubt same can said with the Orthodox orders.

If the question comes up between a Protestant and an Orthodox Christian about who’s right in religion, don’t expect an “I’m Ok, You’re Ok” approach to the conversation. Only one will be ok…

Your counting on Faith, so are they. That faith is Jesus, the Living God.

Pretty much how it is all the way around I suppose. I doubt anyone is following a belief, and don’t believe in what they are following. So I would imagine that wall exists from the get-go. I rarely meet Christians and begin the conversation with our difference in beliefs, I prefer a bond to start.

And yes, Protestants have a lot in common with Latin Catholics. Protestantism comes straight out of the Latin Catholic church, and it is this which has shaped their many perspectives.

Everyone has a lot in common with Rome, Constantinople was the capital of the Eastern “ROMAN” EMPIRE! Now if you would like to alter your point that perhaps Protestants have “more” in common with Catholics perhaps we can proceed on this point. I say AMEN to that. I don’t view them as an affliction if fact very much the opposite.

I would say in agruements against Rome protestants seem to have more in common with our Orthodox brothers in schism or whatever the political correct term is these days “division” hows that better? Course we all can begin with “who” has the True Apostolic Faith and see how history plays out. Seems this is the vague indication the EO seems to allude to.

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

But if you’re a Latin Rite Catholic, it doesn’t fulfill your mass obligation.

This is true.

And isn’t caring for someone a valid exemption to the “obligation”? Or does God & the Church really expect me to place my baby in danger of heat stroke to meet this"obligation"?

Of course. But if you *can *manage to get to one Mass/Liturgy - as, it seems, you could, as you’ve spoken of your experience doing so - then that one should be at a Catholic church. But you didn’t know, so don’t worry about it. Now you do know.

I know that there is an exception to the “obligation”. 1st I’m fully confident that I met that obligation earlier today by attending Mass at an Orthodox Church & 2nd, even if I hadn’t been able to go this morning that Not attending tonight in 105 degree weather, a severe danger to an infant, meets the requirements for an exception to the Obligation.

You’re absolutely right about caring for your infant. But ComeHome2Rome, others on this thread are correct: the obligation is met only by going to Mass/Liturgy at a Catholic church. We’re not accusing you of violating the obligation; you were under the innocent but mistaken impression that going to an Orthodox Divine Liturgy fulfills it.

If, in the future, ensuring the health and safety of your baby would prevent you from going twice, then you should choose the Catholic Mass or Divine Liturgy next time rather than the Orthodox one. Now you know that attending Liturgy at an Orthodox parish does not fulfill the obligation.

I came away feeling that I’d worshipped God in a way I’ve never come close to worshipped Him in any other Church tradition, including our own.

I now know why the Popes BXVI & BPJPII spoke so highly of our sister churches’ liturgical traditions! I come away wondering how did we Catholics lose this majesty in how we worship?

I’m so glad you got to experience it! It is indeed magnificent.

I’m scared too because yesterday I was told that the only way I could come up with to, as rationally as possible, explain how different popes could promote and teach exact opposite things in matters of Faith is considered a heresy.

Perhaps I missed some of your replies yesterday, but from what I remember - please correct me if I’m wrong! - the only example you gave of such contradiction was the filioque. And it was already explained to you that adding the filioque didn’t change our dogma but only expressed it differently.

My baby loved the icons and just kept looking at all of them as she twisted around in my arms to see the next one - she was particularly drawn to the icon of Sts. Constantine and Helen and Jesus in the dome. She always turned to look when the priest was incensing and the censor’s bells jingled. I was helped with the stroller going up stairs.

Yay! It sounds like a wonderful parish.

I want to make sure that I’m not confused, these other 21 rites were (parts of various) Orthodox Churches who united themselves with our Pope at some point in the 1400s to the present time and did not have a continuous unity with the Pope from their beginning to present. Is that correct or wrong?

Correct, with two or three exceptions. But those 22 are churches, not rites.

The rite is the Christian community’s liturgical, spiritual, and theological patrimony. There are five or six eastern/oriental rites: Syriac, Chaldean, Byzantine, Alexandrian, Armenian…

… but there are 23 “self-governing” churches who, together, comprise the Catholic Church. You and I are members of the Latin Church, the largest by far. The other 22 are eastern or oriental Catholic churches.

 

[Hesychios]

I would say in agruements against Rome protestants seem to have more in common with our Orthodox brothers …

Orthodox arguments are not directed ‘against Rome’. They are directed toward truth and in that sense are for the benefit Rome as much as for anyone else. Orthodox are for Rome, Orthodox only want the best outcome for it, which is why these discussions are so important.

If Protestants have learned from Orthodox positions, or have come to the same conclusions on their own, that is to their credit. Of course, these can possibly be seen as independent verifications of the correctness of early church positions and Orthodox arguments, but Orthodox need no such reassurances.

However, that has nothing to do with the fact that the Protestant form of Christianity is a child of the Latin Catholic church. The two groups share so much in common, I really think that Rome should concentrate on restoring it’s relationships with the Protestants first.

Then we can watch and see what happens to the Papal Catholic communion through that process.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

I am so glad you asked. My experience at the Orthodox Church was, in all honesty, absolutely amazing!

CH2R - it is very nice to hear that you had such an experience in an Orthodox Church. That said, as an Eastern Catholic, I would share with some confidence that you might enjoy an equally gratifying spiritual experience at an Eastern Catholic parish, one in full communion with Rome.

As a parent, I sympathize with you in that you have expressed concerns regarding a perceived conflict between your parental responsibilities and your needs in spiritual life, but I also know and believe from experience that they are very intertwined and interdependent.

You are clearly grasping for answers, and I do think you would benefit more from a relationship and discussion with a spiritual advisor more than you could by seeking answers here or on your own.

That said, I am quite sure that a Catholic priest, deacon or religious could properly and correctly explain that while we are encouraged to experience the Light of the East, Catholic and/or Orthodox, should not be confused with our obligation withing the Church.

Cutting through everything mentioned and referenced here, there is a simple answer to the question. It was not mentioned here whether or not you attempted to receive the Holy Eucharist when you attended the Orthodox Divine Liturgy. That said, you are not welcome to do so first an foremost based on the position of the Orthodox Churches. They maintain that the Catholic and Orthodox Churches are not in full communion, therefore the faithful are not free to receive the sacraments in the other Church (except in some very exceptional circumstances, which require permission).

Do you think it is logical that the Catholic Church would say that you have fulfilled your Sunday obligation in a Church where you could not receive Holy Communion, especially if you could have attended a Catholic Mass or Divine Liturgy?

It is clear that you were well intentioned, but it does seem like you could use some direct advice from a knwledgeable spiritual advisor on these important questions.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Oh, well thank you very much for that. . For years I’ve been noticing the Temples now, and I’ve always been very curious what it would be like, but I’m one of those types of people who are extremely cautious in protecting the purity of my faith. Of course I’ve been accidentally subject to small amounts of Protestantism from television, but I’m extremely selective on any books I read as to not mix-up my faith with that of any other -that is anymore than it has been. . But that’s probably just me being overprotective.

I can’t guarantee the Orthodox parish near you will be as wonderful. Even Catholic parishes vary in terms of friendliness. The most difficult thing about Orthodox parishes is that most of them are ethnic, and some will not be welcoming of people from other ethnicities. Even my friend who is an Orthodox priest says as much, that he himself won’t be as welcome in some other parishes that are very ethnic despite being an Orthodox priest.

 

[ComeHome2Rome]

I’ve also been to services of the American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Church, so can recommend those guys too (the Ruthenian Greek Catholic Church being their counterpart in communion with the pope).

Amazing that between 3 different Orthodox Churches under different bishops we have had the same exact experiences. We so totally wouldn’t get that going to 3 Catholic Churches of the same Rite. I’m most definitely intrigued.

You must be thinking of this.

Edit: When I click that link, the article doesn’t appear. But when I do a search on Google.ca of the title of the article in quotation marks–

“Why I Didn’t Convert to Eastern Orthodoxy”

–the link above is the second result, and it mysteriously works.

Yes, but No. The link to the article I read was a point by point response to that very article (which was included in full) by an Orthodox.

 

[ComeHome2Rome]

As a parent, I sympathize with you in that you have expressed concerns regarding a perceived conflict between your parental responsibilities and your needs in spiritual life, but I also know and believe from experience that they are very intertwined and interdependent.

CCC 2181 references that the “care of infants” does exempt the caregiver from the “obligation”. Took a while to find as the exemptions were not listed with the precepts.

Begs the question of what constitutes an “infant” to the Catholic Church. In Jesus’ day, 3 yrs olds were still “infants”. In America, we usually refer to under age 1 as an “infant”. What is an “infant” according to our CC?

It was not mentioned here whether or not you attempted to receive the Holy Eucharist when you attended the Orthodox Divine Liturgy.

I did mention that in parenthesis of one of my posts, so it may have been easily overlooked. I did NOT attempt to receive the Eucharist.

Do you think it is logical that the Catholic Church would say that you have fulfilled your Sunday obligation in a Church where you could not receive Holy Communion, especially if you could have attended a Catholic Mass or Divine Liturgy?

Yes, I do think it is logical for the reasons I’ve previously outlined.

When considering the Holy Communion issue, please keep in mind Catholics we are only “obligated” to receive only once a year and in a different season then we’re currently in. As an individual, I prefer to receive on a daily basis, but missing a Sunday’s Holy Communion isn’t going against any Church requirement.

The Catholic Church, as I have previously outlined, does acknowledge that the Sacraments celebrated in the Orthodox Churches are Valid and even encourages Catholics to receive the Eucharist “from non-Catholic ministers in whose Churches these sacraments are valid” in certain circumstances of either a physical or a moral nature. CCL 844.

This, in addition to the other reasons I’ve outlined in prior posts, continues to confirm for me that visiting an Orthodox Mass does meet the Sunday “obligation”.

 

[Lucky7]

I view Orthodoxy as “close but no cigar”. We certainly agree more on things than not, but when you read these threads you realize we’re a lot farther apart than originally thought.

 

[Trebor135]

Amazing that between 3 different Orthodox Churches under different bishops we have had the same exact experiences.

Well, I never got to a bookstore as you and/or your daughter managed, but on two of the three occasions I was able to chat with the priest for a bit after Vespers and following lunch.

We so totally wouldn’t get that going to 3 Catholic Churches of the same Rite. I’m most definitely intrigued.

That unfortunate reality is something I find discouraging, too.

Yes, but No. The link to the article I read was a point by point response to that very article (which was included in full) by an Orthodox.

You sure it wasn’t the article by Fr. Laurence Cleenewerck?

An Orthodox reply to “Why I Am Not Eastern Orthodox” by Jimmy Akin

---

An article by this title was published in This Rock magazine in 1995. Jimmy Akin is a capable and friendly Roman Catholic apologist, and this Orthodox reply is offered in a spirit of friendship and dialogue.

The Orthodox reply by Rev. Laurence Cleenewerck is in bold in the text of the article [below].