When did children become an inconveniece?

[Mary_Gail_36]

DH and I haven’t gone out alone since baby was born (I think a few times to visit him at the hospital together) January 2009.

I guess financially we could afford another one…

But we are avoiding indefinately…

Our baby was born premature and spent 2 .5 months in the hospital. I remember the most intense part of the labor was 3 pm (The hour of mercy) he was born at a little past 4.

I was taken to a county hospital with an ambulance…the doctor who saw me tried to stop the labor for a few days so the baby could mature…but was unsuccessful. I remember him telling me that, “28 weeks, we are talking basic survival.” Thankfully the NICU team and nurses were more confident. One nurse told me she had a 24 week preemie, who was doing fine.

Let’s see, 2 events really traumatized us. When baby was 2 weeks after his birth, he came down with sepsis. One of the nurses always had him at her shifts. She was a 24 year veteran of the NICU, and really seemed to love our little baby. DH came in to visit and found her crying. His heart sank with dread. Thankfully baby made it through his crisis.

Another time I was feeding baby,and he suffered an attack of apnea and a bradycardia siumltaneously. His heart rate went down to about 60 and he turned grey…or how they say cyanotic. Feeding would tire him out that much.

I’m still shell shocked over this. I cannot watch any medical documentaries with preemies. Just too painful.

I’m also almost 41. So I don’t think that it would be prudent to try again…

 

[Rach620]

If we look back at the OP, this thread was started in response to seeing Catholic families on CAF discussing NFP, and questioning why so many Catholics here seem to be trying to limit family size. The discussion of generational differences and societal changes only came in later, and did not seem to be at all the OP’s intention.

So that’s the reason you’re getting a lot of defensive married people in here who are uncomfortable with others (particularly people who, no offense, have never been married) telling married folks that 2 kids just isn’t enough–they should probably try to have 5 or 6 children.

It is far, far too easy to judge what we think are others’ motivations for choosing how to live their lives (or, as in my case, others assuming that they know we are making a decision about family size at all, rather than grappling with sub-fertility). Threads such as this just have never gone well on CAF. Why should any of us care if others approve of or understand our reasons for spacing children, if we have prayerfully discerned God’s plan for our families?

I’m tired of reading that this is the reason why we choose to stop at 2 children.

Stop judging until you know what’s actually going on. It’s not fair to families who have chosen to have 2 or less children. There are valid reasons for this and it’s not a fancy car, etc.

It just really gets my skirt on fire.

I was going to post about this before I saw your reply, Serap. I totally agree with you.

Even when talking about societal reasons for why families are so much smaller these days, I think that the “materialism” reason is not even the main one. It’s sort of a cop-out, if you will, an explanation that misses the main issues at work in most of Western society.

I think the real reason why society in general does not welcome new life as a gift is because they just don’t think human life is all that great or special. Life has been reduced to a utilitarian thing, not viewed as a gift from God and opportunity for us to grow in union with Him. Instead, people see that we’re destroying the planet, we hurt or kill one another, and that not everyone can live with their basic human needs taken care of, and they think that some people would have been better off never living at all. Instead of hope, people have fear–fear about living.

I don’t think these fundamental reasons are preventing many Catholic couples–who DO have true hope in Christ–from having children. More often, we’re discerning the spacing of children based on balancing our trust in God’s providence and loving plan on the one hand, and our responsibility as husbands, wives, and parents to be good stewards of all of His gifts on the other. What Catholic husbands and wives need are encouragement and solutions for living God’s will for their families: financial guidance, communication skills, tools for reducing family stress, ways to cope with all of the daily issues, big and small, that arise. What they don’t need is to be beaten up for their decisions…

 

[Farmerswife]

I’m sorry if this offends anyone but it is how I feel. Until you have gone through the whole process of bringing a child into this world and parenting, you can have an opinion on the subject I suppose, but there is no way it can hold up in this “debate”.

My husband and I tried for over four years to have a family. With surgeries and treatments, prayers and tears. When we finally got the blessed news that we were expecting we thought we could relax. Then came the bleeding, then came the gestational diabetes, then came the mature placenta and low fluid. Somehow we made it through and delivered our first child. Now we could relax! HA think again. Next came emergency rooms and specialists. When all that calmed down we were in the clear for a bit and were blessed with another pregnancy. Which was another high risk pregnancy and delivery. After we made it through that next came EKG’s and ultra sounds on his heart. Then xrays MRI’s and surgery on his skull.

My kids are three and five now, Have we relaxed, no way. Things are calmer than they have been. Now it’s just the everyday fears and battles that parents face everyday. Anxiety depression and my health have all played a part of why we believe we are done having children.

Every parent is different and every child is different. You can’t pretend to understand another person position if you haven’t lived it. We have an idea for what we think is best for us and those that use NFP are trying to achieve that. But we all know if it is God’s Will, he will make it happen, regardless of what we have decided.

My kids have been an inconvenience since the day I dreamed of having them. I wouldn’t change it for the world. That had nothing to do with the reason I believe we are likely not having more. Everyone’s reasons are different and I don’t think this is a subject you can speak in general about.

 

[shannyk]

Another perspective…children are not baseball cards. We’re not to collect as many of them as we can just so we can say we have a lot.

There was a time in the culture of the Church where children were treated as ‘assets’ more than individuals, and were thought of as a testament to their parents faithfulness and were paraded around as cute collectible trinkets of God’s blessings, while couples with only a few children were looked down upon.This is also disordered and gravely wrong. Each individual child is invaluable on his own and should be treated as such.

Parents are to be good stewards of the children they are given and not to be presumptuous about what more God may (or may not) bless them with. Big families are a wonderful thing, I am from one, but it’s not for everyone. Parents prayerfully discerning their family size and limiting it if needed (for serious reasons as the Church states) is a good thing.

 

[The_Bucket]

I was taken to a county hospital with an ambulance…the doctor who saw me tried to stop the labor for a few days so the baby could mature…but was unsuccessful. I remember him telling me that, “28 weeks, we are talking basic survival.” Thankfully the NICU team and nurses were more confident. One nurse told me she had a 24 week preemie, who was doing fine.

Let’s see, 2 events really traumatized us. When baby was 2 weeks after his birth, he came down with sepsis. One of the nurses always had him at her shifts. She was a 24 year veteran of the NICU, and really seemed to love our little baby. DH came in to visit and found her crying. His heart sank with dread. Thankfully baby made it through his crisis.

Another time I was feeding baby,and he suffered an attack of apnea and a bradycardia siumltaneously. His heart rate went down to about 60 and he turned grey…or how they say cyanotic. Feeding would tire him out that much.

I’m still shell shocked over this. I cannot watch any medical documentaries with preemies. Just too painful.

I’m also almost 41. So I don’t think that it would be prudent to try again…

If it makes you feel any better, we have a similar story. My wife was rushed to the hospital at just 25.5 weeks with an abruption. Couldn’t stop the bleeding or labor, so our son was born just a few hours later. He was less than two pounds. He stayed in the hospital for 4.5 months, nearly died several times and apnea was pretty much an every day thing for months. Of course, he didn’t get sepsis or sick at all. That was his one saving grace.

Today he’s a perfectly happy, healthy and smart little two year old. His pediatrician is just astonished at his progress. He started so small and today is proudly right around 50% in growth and both his pediatrician and my in-laws, who are BOTH pediatricians in their own right, say he’s advanced mentally and socially for his age.

We also were scared of having another child, but lo and behold, my wife was actually a few days pregnant when we took our little boy home from the hospital. Fortunately, we found the cause of the abruption, a rare genetic disorder that causes blood clots and while my wife sure didn’t like getting blood thinner shots every day, they did work out fine. Our daughter was born at 37 weeks, well over six pounds and perfectly healthy.

She and our son are the best of little toddler friends and I think we’ll have more in a few years. Of course, we’re also in our mid-20s so that helps.

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

No, the thread was started here on CAF (presumably mostly people wanting to live their Catholic faith) questioning the use of NFP.
THAT’S why people get spun up on judging…

This discussion was not started to look at general society and smaller family size in non-catholic society - which I *agree *with you on… THAT is a *different *subject.

My mistake.

I guess I jumped into the discussion thinking it was about what really mattered. Ok, please note, all of my earlier posts were regarding the culture in general, and not about CAF posters.

Yeah, you have to tread very lightly when generalizing about or criticizing the group that you’re in the middle of. And when you haven’t even BTDT, even more so…

Not that it is a completely unfair question to contemplate. It would be prideful of those of us who are trying to live according to the church to assume that we are immune to the non-child-friendly ways of thinking that prevail in our culture, or that we couldn’t possibly come to a new understanding of what we should be doing. Not sure the conversation works in such a large online group though.

 

[mini_me640]

It isn’t why YOU stopped at 2 children. But you can’t deny that it is why SOME people stop at two. In fact, why MANY people stop at 2 (or 1 or 3). **And I don’t think (well I hope so at least) this thread was meant to target members of CAF who have smaller sized families. ** That’s one of the reasons why so many people keep adding “we have to be careful not to judge” to our posts - to make the point that we’re not talking about those who have DISCERNED the decision to limit family size.

Did you read the original post? The OP specifically stated that she was troubled at all of the threads about NFP here on CAF and that it seems like everyone is trying to do whatever it takes to avoid more children. So the thread did specifically target members of CAF who have smaller families and those who are using NFP to limit their family size. That is why so many are defensive on this thread.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

If it makes you feel any better, we have a similar story. My wife was rushed to the hospital at just 25.5 weeks with an abruption. Couldn’t stop the bleeding or labor, so our son was born just a few hours later. He was less than two pounds. He stayed in the hospital for 4.5 months, nearly died several times and apnea was pretty much an every day thing for months. Of course, he didn’t get sepsis or sick at all. That was his one saving grace.

Today he’s a perfectly happy, healthy and smart little two year old. His pediatrician is just astonished at his progress. He started so small and today is proudly right around 50% in growth and both his pediatrician and my in-laws, who are BOTH pediatricians in their own right, say he’s advanced mentally and socially for his age.

We also were scared of having another child, but lo and behold, my wife was actually a few days pregnant when we took our little boy home from the hospital. Fortunately, we found the cause of the abruption, a rare genetic disorder that causes blood clots and while my wife sure didn’t like getting blood thinner shots every day, they did work out fine. Our daughter was born at 37 weeks, well over six pounds and perfectly healthy.

She and our son are the best of little toddler friends and I think we’ll have more in a few years. Of course, we’re also in our mid-20s so that helps.

I had an abruption as well…and supposedly had a very low risk for one, the only thing my doctor said is that my placenta was low lying (also had some fibroids)He’s actually from my fifth pregnancy, my third living child. Abruptions tend to be more common as you get older…I;m almost 41 as well.

I’m glad you little guy is doing well. My little guy is great except for some gross motor delays. He’s still not on the charts at his actual age for weight, and I think about 5th percentile of you adjust his age.

Take care, and God Bless!

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

Did you read the original post? The OP specifically stated that she was troubled at all of the threads about NFP here on CAF and that it seems like everyone is trying to do whatever it takes to avoid more children. So the thread did specifically target members of CAF who have smaller families and those who are using NFP to limit their family size. That is why so many are defensive on this thread.

Looks like we posted at the same time. My mistake. I read the OP, but either not carefully enough, or I just got distracted by one of my “inconveniences” and forgot the tone of the post by the time I replied. Oops.

 

[mini_me640]

Looks like we posted at the same time. My mistake. I read the OP, but either not carefully enough, or I just got distracted by one of my “inconveniences” and forgot the tone of the post by the time I replied. Oops.

I know, those little “inconveniences” can be such an interruption LOL

 

[Paganus]

Children are blessings from God - at least, that’s how all real Catholics look at them.

Of course, if you get your values from the wonderful folks who make your popular tv programs, who knows what kind of nonsense you will believe?

 

[Em_in_FL]

My mistake.

I guess I jumped into the discussion thinking it was about what really mattered. Ok, please note, all of my earlier posts were regarding the culture in general, and not about CAF posters.

Yeah, you have to tread very lightly when generalizing about or criticizing the group that you’re in the middle of. And when you haven’t even BTDT, even more so…

Not that it is a completely unfair question to contemplate. It would be prideful of those of us who are trying to live according to the church to assume that we are immune to the non-child-friendly ways of thinking that prevail in our culture, or that we couldn’t possibly come to a new understanding of what we should be doing. Not sure the conversation works in such a large online group though.

No worries… that’s what I thought happened, but I just wanted to clarify for the sake of… well, clarity.

 

[Serap]

I had an abruption as well…and supposedly had a very low risk for one, the only thing my doctor said is that my placenta was low lying (also had some fibroids)He’s actually from my fifth pregnancy, my third living child. Abruptions tend to be more common as you get older…I;m almost 41 as well.

I’m glad you little guy is doing well. My little guy is great except for some gross motor delays. He’s still not on the charts at his actual age for weight, and I think about 5th percentile of you adjust his age.

Take care, and God Bless!

MaryGail and The Bucket,

Your stories are such inspirations!!! I’m so glad that your babies are now healthy and doing so well!!!

My boss told me that she was 1.5 pounds (I think around 27 weeks) when she was born (55 years ago in Hungary) and her doctor told her mother that she could take her baby home to die. Eva (my boss) said her mother was determined to save her daughter. They (Eva’s parents) kept the baby in a box beside the fire place to keep her warm and fed her with a dropper with breastmilk in it every 1/2 hour for 2 months and she is now my very intelligent, funny and witty boss!

My girlfriends baby was also a preemie and is now 3 and she’s definitely not behind. She does however seem to get sick a lot for some reason. I think her lungs are little bit weak.

 

[Serap]

Children are blessings from God - at least, that’s how all real Catholics look at them.

Of course, if you get your values from the wonderful folks who make your popular tv programs, who knows what kind of nonsense you will believe?

On this subject, I have been told so many times that I am too close to my children and I need to let them be more independent

 

[mini_me640]

Children are blessings from God - at least, that’s how all real Catholics look at them.

Of course, if you get your values from the wonderful folks who make your popular tv programs, who knows what kind of nonsense you will believe?

I’m not sure I am clear on the tone of this post. Are you trying to say that people who don’t feel they can handle a large family DON’T think children are a blessing and are getting their values from TV? I hope that’s not the intended meaning of this post.

 

[happymommy]

I’m tired of reading that this is the reason why we choose to stop at 2 children.

Stop judging until you know what’s actually going on. It’s not fair to families who have chosen to have 2 or less children. There are valid reasons for this and it’s not a fancy car, etc.

It just really gets my skirt on fire.

It might not apply to you, but it does apply to some. There are valid reasons to not have a large family, the reasons differ from one family to the next . I guess everyone needs to answer that question themselves. Right now we have to wait because my 88 year old dad is going to be moving in with us soon. He just had a quintuple bi-pass and is not doing well. I don’t know what condition he will be in when he comes here so as of right now we should probably wait on more kids. That is a valid reason for our family. There will be lots of stress added when he comes, he will need a lot of help, possibly 24 hour nursing care. It would be unwise and unhealthy to try to have a baby. But someone else might look at this and think we are doing the wrong thing in not trying, some will think we are crazy for taking in my dad. But to us this is a valid reason to wait. In my opinion saving for college is not a valid reason. Everyone is different.

What I’m sick of, and this not towards you, Serap, is people judging families that have lots of kids like we are doing it to make those, who either don’t want kids or only want one or two, look bad. I also don’t like the assumption that we have tons of money and perfect children so we couldn’t possibly understand concerns about getting by or be tired from our kids.

Could we use more money? I guess so, but I don’t think we are wanting for anything. Money can’t give you true happiness. I get a joy from my kids and husband that no amount of money could ever buy. Am I tired? Yes! But I look at my sweet baby and look forwarded to having more.

 

[Serap]

It might not apply to you, but it does apply to some. There are valid reasons to not have a large family, the reasons differ from one family to the next . I guess everyone needs to answer that question themselves. Right now we have to wait because my 88 year old dad is going to be moving in with us soon. He just had a quintuple bi-pass and is not doing well. I don’t know what condition he will be in when he comes here so as of right now we should probably wait on more kids. That is a valid reason for our family. There will be lots of stress added when he comes, he will need a lot of help, possibly 24 hour nursing care. It would be unwise and unhealthy to try to have a baby. But someone else might look at this and think we are doing the wrong thing in not trying, some will think we are crazy for taking in my dad. But to us this is a valid reason to wait. In my opinion saving for college is not a valid reason. Everyone is different.

What I’m sick of, and this not towards you, Serap, is people judging families that have lots of kids like we are doing it to make those, who either don’t want kids or only want one or two, look bad. I also don’t like the assumption that we have tons of money and perfect children so we couldn’t possibly understand concerns about getting by or be tired from our kids.

Could we use more money? I guess so, but I don’t think we are wanting for anything. Money can’t give you true happiness. I get a joy from my kids and husband that no amount of money could ever buy. Am I tired? Yes! But I look at my sweet baby and look forwarded to having more.

God bless your family!

When I see parents with lots of children, I do make jokes like, “You guys have been busy.” or “You have a soccer team.” Should I not make those jokes? Is it rude? I only make those jokes if I feel comfortable talking to them and have seen them many times first.

 

[happymommy]

God bless your family!

When I see parents with lots of children, I do make jokes like, “You guys have been busy.” or “You have a soccer team.” Should I not make those jokes? Is it rude? I only make those jokes if I feel comfortable talking to them and have seen them many times first.

Thank you!

I think it depends on your tone when you say it. We have some people that make jokes about us wanting more kids and we can laugh about it, but we do have people say rude things with nasty looks and that hurts.

The other day I saw a guy I had gone to high school with. His eyes got huge as he looked at the kids and said “Are they ALL yours!!” It was really funny. I only have 4, not 19. I was very tempted to say, no, just found them along the road and thought they were cute, but I didn’t.

 

[Serap]

Thank you!

I think it depends on your tone when you say it. We have some people that make jokes about us wanting more kids and we can laugh about it, but we do have people say rude things with nasty looks and that hurts.

The other day I saw a guy I had gone to high school with. His eyes got huge as he looked at the kids and said “Are they ALL yours!!” It was really funny. I only have 4, not 19. I was very tempted to say, no, just found them along the road and thought they were cute, but I didn’t.

:bowdown:

I don’t know how you do it b/c I am finding 2 to be almost more than I can handle.

 

[Paganus]

On this subject, I have been told so many times that I am too close to my children and I need to let them be more independent

I believe you said you had two children so far. I have noticed that the parents of small families frequently wear themselves out micro-managing their behavior.

We were similar when our family was just getting started. I spent large amounts of time reading stories, playing games, talking to the baby,etc You never stop doing these things entirely - but you do stop having to do all of them all the time. The more children you have, the less menial work you have to do. Instead, it becomes a question of management. It’s always easier to manage a crew of laborers than it is to do all the labor yourself.