When did Mary fully believe in Jesus?

[AlegreFe]

I am thinking that Mary did not fully understand, realise that Jesus is the Messiah until after the ressurrection. When do you think Mary fully believed in Jesus as the Christ, Messiah?

Well, since you’re “undecided” in what your religion is, then I can see why you would be “undecided” with this issue also.

If you read the bible then you would know the answer to this question. Yes, Mary knew all too well since she was well versed in scripture. She knew the OT so when Angel Gabriel came to her she knew at the moment Gabriel told her.

You’re in my prayers. Jesus loves you and so does Mary. So I will ask Mary to place you in her Immaculate Heart. That is the best place to be because she will bring you to her Son.

 

[AlegreFe]

“Mary did you know?”

I think yes!

I think? No. Most absolutely YES. :yup:

Although that song is pretty (Clay’s being my favorite version), I sometimes get frustrated listening to that song because I say,
“of course she knew!”

 

[AlegreFe]

Daniel, Daniel, Daniel. You did not address anything that I wrote. You simply dismissed it with a irrelevant point that, BTW, mitigates against ANY use of Scripture (including your own).

Instead, you go into the tired anti-Catholic clap-trap which tries to down-play Mary’s significance. It is clear this is why you started this whole thread – a very childish and deceptive tactic of the type that turned me off from “Bible Christians” and straight back into the Catholic Church. I wanted no part of people that had to resort to such tactics.

Next time be honest and, if you can’t ask a sincere question, at least say what you mean up front. To paraphrase Gollum, “I like my anti-Catholicism raw and wriggling!”

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I thought his question seemed to lack sincerity. But I can’t help thinking this guy is only searching. His tactics might not be the best but he reminds me of my protestant brother who seems to constantly change his mind on what he wants to believe. He just wants to know. I hope one day Dan and my brother will find what they’re looking for and that of course is the Truth. And where can a person find the fulness of truth? In the Catholic Church of course!

 

[Angelos]

I am replying only to you last para above. I don’t know what bible says about it but the Quran is a high level language, brief in some way, and it is telling that Mary brought her son (Jesus ) before the people** mounted**. The people did not accept him and said that she had brought a strange (bad) thing to them. Please read the verse 19:27 again which I had posted earlier. See it again below:

[19:24] Then the angel called her from beneath her, saying, 'Grieve not. Thy Lord has placed a rivulet below thee;
[19:25] 'And shake towards thyself the trunk of the palm-tree; it will drop upon thee fresh ripe dates;
[19:26] 'So, eat and drink and cool thine eye. And if thou seest any man, say, ‘I have vowed a fast to the Gracious God; I will, therefore, not speak this day to any human being.’
[19:27] Then she brought him to her people, mounted. They said, 'O Mary, surely, thou hast committed a monstrous thing!

Could you please elaborate on this quote? I could not get your point.

These verses do not mean or predict that Jesus would be denied by Jews in the future! In the story of chapter 19 Mary’s folk does not even know that the baby is a prophet sent to them! They simply accuse Mary of being unchaste because they see only the baby, not his father.

Above all, the Koran never asserts that Jesus’ future denial was ANNOUNCED to Mary, which proves my point.

 

[AlegreFe]

I love that one.

How could she be “full” of grace AND a sinner simultaneously? Does God grace sinners completely “before” Jesus’ sacrifice that came to wipe away our original sin?

(Then they say “Stephen was full of grace too!” and I slam the door on that exchange with, “But that was AFTER Jesus when everybody else could be as sinnless as Mary facilitating the negative factor that would allow for one to be free of sin and full of grace.” Then, I hear crickets chirping.)



I feel another thread being born here!

The word used for “grace” for Mary was different than the word used for Stephen. It has little to do with the timing of when the phrases “full of grace” were used. That’s part of the problem with translation. A bit gets lost in translation with the language. Sometimes words cannot be translated into another language properly.

Anyway the word used for Mary, which was actually a new name given to her by God, was κεχαριτωμένη or “kecharitoméne.” It is a passive participle. It implies that Mary has been made (in the past) full of grace and continues to be (in the present) full of grace. Meaning she was never without grace; in otherwords she was made and will always be sinless; full and complete enmity between her and satan (Gen 3:15).

The word used in Acts 6:8 for Stephen is χάριτος or charito; simply grace or favor.

And no, not everyone is sinless as Mary. The way that Mary was made full of grace is not the same nor will it ever be the same as the way we are graced by God. Our grace is “now” and only lasts at that moment so if we don’t grab it it could be gone. Of course there’s more where that came from. But for Mary she was made that way from her very conception and continued to be full of grace all her life. She has absolutely no effects of sin whatsoever. We, on the other hand, have the effects of sin or concupiscence. So even if we have gone to Confession and received Jesus in Holy Communion and as a result are in a state of grace, we still have the effects of sin and we still have our temporal punishment due to sin. Even being in a state of grace we can still fall. Mary could never fall because of the way she was graced by God. It was only fitting for her to be graced in such a way that she could never sin.

 

[AlegreFe]

Mary, being a young Jewish girl well versed in the Old Testament, knew about the coming of the Messiah. (read the OT). Having been created by God to be the Mother of HIS SON, she was filled with the FULLNESS of GRACE from conception, ( Hail, Full of Grace)) Grace brings WISDOM, (a gift from God), To be Full of Grace does not mean she knew as much as God does, ( Eve found that out in the Garden and she was full of Grace too) but it does mean she knew what God wanted her to know, (infused knowledge,) Even if we just take what we think she knew, her teaching from childhood, what the Angel said to her, what Elizabeth said (after being Filled with the Holy Spirit), (Read your BIble), At the Birth of Jesus, when shepherds and Kings came to worship HIM, the flight into Egypt, yes, even at the finding of Jesus in the Temple, when He said, " Do you not know I must be about MY Father’s Business". but never the less, He was subject to them and returned home with them. At the wedding feast at Cana, ( where Jesus worked HIS first Miracle at her request) "We would all do well to listen to her when she says, “Do as HE tells you.” Who are we to question the Wisdom of God in such a precious time in our human history. We should be down on our knees thanking God. And doing everything we can to bring about the Unity of Faith, that Jesus prayed for. God Bless.

Good post.
I like the comments you have in parenthesis, especially the one that says, “read your bible.”

 

[AlegreFe]

To me there are two separate issues: knowing and understanding what it all meant.

When did she know? Day one. She knew who he was and who is Daddy was the whole time.

I like that. “Daddy.”

 

[AlegreFe]

It wasn’t until watching Mel Gibsons “The Passion of the Christ” that I began to fully appreciate what Mary must have gone through. What remarkable faith that woman had! If God were to tell me that my child must suffer and die to redeem mankind, I think I’d be begging Him to find another way.

Would you like to watch my video? Mary, Pierced by a Sword. Be sure to click on “watch in high quality,” pause it for a few seconds to let it load, then watch full screen. And if you’re anything like me, you better have some tissue :tissues: handy. http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i85/Alegre-Fe/Emoticons/Cry.gif