When did the de-latinization of the Easter Churches start?

[choliks]

I privately asked a few of the Eastern Catholics here on the boards, but I think they forgot to get back to me.

When did the de-latinization of the Easter Churches start? Was it during Vatican II? Or was it way, way before?

If this has been answered in a very recent thread, kindly point me to it.

Thanks in advance.

 

[AmyLambert]

I also have the same question.I only knew that the Eastern Catholic Churches refer to those Churches that developed in the eastern half of the Roman Empire.

pressure cleaning palm beach

 

[ByzCathCantor]

As far as can be told, at least from my lifetime of experience as an EC and from study, I would say that Vatican II opened the door or, more aptly, opened many eyes to the damage done to the EC Churches.

However, by then the train had already left the station and was steaming ahead. You had the coming generation grow up in a Latinized Church, without any catechesis or life experience to tell them they were living a liturgical experience that was not wholly representative of their heritage. In the U.S., practical matters set in, and things like Vigil Divine Liturgies (vs Vespers) became a necessary norm in some parishes, just as an example.

Many of the EC Churches were slow to begin restoration of their rites simply because they had been programmed for so long to conform to Latin praxis in order to be accepted as Catholics, and remembering all too well sometimes harsh mandates from Rome prompting conformity. Bishops also knew how challenging it would be to re-educate the faithful, who knew only current practice. While Vatican II gave the EC Churches modern legitimacy and recognition that was surely needed, these Churches did not feel empowered to act without further mandate from Rome.

IMHO, it wasn’t until the Vatican acted definitively first in the 1980s, culminating with the promulgation of the separate Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches (CCEO) in 1990, that the ball began to roll. Even then, many Churches were slow to act, and the Congregation for the Eastern Churches responded in 1996 by issuing the Instruction for Applying the Liturgical Prescriptions of the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches.

At least in my own Byzantine-Ruthenian Catholic Church, the first major, visible step was the restoration of the ancient form of Rite of Christian Initiation in 1997, whereby infants received the Holy Eucharist together with Baptism and Chrismation.

To debate the relative success of these efforts post 1996 would likely best be done (at length) in another thread, but to answer your question at least from the Ruthenian perspective, the process really started in 1990 with the CCEO as a foundation for reform.

I would also say that had it not been for the advocacy of + Blessed John Paul II, we’d still be stuck in neutral. Pope Benedict XVI continues to be a supportive Pontiff, for which we are grateful.

 

[Vico]

I privately asked a few of the Eastern Catholics here on the boards, but I think they forgot to get back to me.

When did the de-latinization of the Easter Churches start? Was it during Vatican II? Or was it way, way before?

If this has been answered in a very recent thread, kindly point me to it.

Thanks in advance.

I would say, 1894, Pope Leo XIII, with Orientalium Dignitas.

papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13orient.htm

Later in 1917 the Congregation for Oriental Churches was formed from the Congregation for the Propagation of the Faith.

The liturgy reform began in the 1940s upon request for help with it, from eastern bishops, made to Rome. So then the Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom was published in 1940, and of Saint Basil the Great in 1941. The full three liturgies, as well as the liturgical propers and the office was published in 1942. Different recensions were published.

All these Recensions were published, with different rubrics and languages for the various Oriental Churches:

I.-Libri Liturgici Per Le Chiese Orientali Di Rito Bizantino
V51 A) In Lingua Greca
B) In Lingua Slava Ecclesiastica
V52 1. Recensio Vulgata (Pro Russis, Bulgaris, Serbis)
V53 2. Recensio Ruthena (Pro Ucrainis Et Ruthenis)
V53 3. Pro Utraque Recensione
V54 C) In Lingua Rumena
V55 Ii. Libri Liturgici Per Le Chiese Orientali Di Rito Alessandrino-Copto
V56 Iii. Libri Liturgici Per Le Chiese Orientali Di Rito Alessandrino-Etiopico
V57 Iv. Edizione Romana Dei Rituali Etiopici
V58 V. Libri Liturgici Per Le Chiese Orientali Di Rito Siro-Orientale O Caldeo
V59 Varia
V60 Vi. Libri Liturgici Per Le Chiese Orientali In Lingua Russa
V61 Vii. Libri Liturgici Per Le Chiese Orientali Di Rito Melkita

See:
vatican.va/roman_curia/institutions_connected/lev/documents/varie.html

 

[ByzCathCantor]

I would say, 1894, Pope Leo XIII, with Orientalium Dignitas.

Vico, I always respect and admire your scholarship, and I understand why you may have replied as such, but this answer ignores a grave period of suppression and further Latinization that nonetheless occurred from the period some years prior and up to Vatican II, particularly as regards the Eastern Churches in America.

While the Ruthenian Recension of the 1940s and 1950s certainly evidences a formal effort to restore an authentic form of Liturgy, reconciled to source texts and documents, on the ground, icons screens were being replaced with communion rails.

Heck, I received First Holy Communion in 1973, and was prepared using the Baltimore Catechism.

I first learned the Nicene Creed with the filioque inserted, and didn’t really know any better until 1996, when our then-new Bishop of Passaic instructed us to omit it henceforth.

I’m not sure how, in my formative era, we were still so very Latinized despite a process which presumably began in 1894.

I realize some foundation was laid, but the wrecking balls were still swinging for a few more decades …

 

[choliks]

Thanks BCC and Vico for the information. It was really helpful.

I realize some foundation was laid, but the wrecking balls were still swinging for a few more decades …

I imagined it was the wrecking balls of delatinization that were not swinging fully.

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

I’m not sure how, in my formative era, we were still so very Latinized despite a process which presumably began in 1894.

I realize some foundation was laid, but the wrecking balls were still swinging for a few more decades …

Hi ByzCathCantor ,

According to Fr. Cyril Korolevsky (the man behind the Ruthenian Recension) in his polemic Uniatism, the only reason that the Eastern Churches have remained Latinized since Pope Leo XIII is because basically because they want to. It is, in many ways, an understandable reaction. After all, many Eastern Catholics lost their lives clinging to their Latinizations as symbols of their Catholicity and loyalty to Rome.

Another reason is simply ignorance, or rather lack of Eastern formation. At one time Eastern Catholic seminarians were being sent to Roman Catholic seminaries for their education simply because Eastern Catholics did not have seminaries at the time. While at these Roman seminaries they were not permitted to celebrate their own liturgical services, but had to participate in Roman services, and they learned Thomistic and scholastic theology rather than the theology of their own tradition. In the end, the Roman theological approach was fully adopted because it was so systematized, and I presume easier to learn because of that. The newly ordained priests then took this intellectual and spiritual formation back to their parishes, where it was then swallowed whole.

This is why Fr. Korolevsky and others have said that the most dangerous form of Latinization is the “Latinization of the mind.” Were it not for this Latinization of the mind, it would be relatively easy to get rid of all these external Latinizations.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

This is why Fr. Korolevsky and others have said that the most dangerous form of Latinization is the “Latinization of the mind.” Were it not for this Latinization of the mind, it would be relatively easy to get rid of all these external Latinizations.

Hello, and good morning my friend!

Thank you for referencing the written work of Fr. Korolevsky, with which I am familiar yet have not yet committed to reading in full.

While I do not entirely agree with the premise of a self imposed Latinization (it would be hard for an American Ruthenian with an appreciation for modern history to do so), the concept of the “Latinization of the mind” is certainly credible and virtually proven. Our Bishops are well aware of the challenges associated with reversing this course, as the adult members of their flocks have been engrained with a “status quo”.

As an example, I recall the recent thread here regarding Sayedna Samra’s pastoral instructions on “First Communion” celebrations in the Melkite Church. The reactions here and among the faithful speak volumes as to the effect of Latinization even to present times. By that, I also mean that some of the “motives of the mind (and heart)” for ECs to want to retain Latinizations were well highlighted by the reactions and comments of several non ECs in that discussion.

We all want to be included, but its hard to feel included when you are different. We learn that as children in the schoolyard.

That said, I do believe the pendulum finally swung the other way in 1996, with the Curia pushing it that way. There are credible stories of the Congregation for Eastern Churches coming down hard on EC bishops for not moving fast enough after the promulgation of the Eastern Code of Canons, which prompted the issuance of The Instruction for Applying the Liturgical Prescriptions of the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches.

So, on a positive note, Rome is now fully in board and actually pushing the issue, a far cry from where we were at the beginning of the 20th century.

Now the bishops and clergy must be brave enough to follow through, for the sake of the upcoming generation and beyond.

My 7yr old son will be making his First Penance in less than two weeks. My mom sent him an email, mentioning that she was excited about coming to visit for his “First Holy Communion”. He wrote back “I already get Communion - I need penance”.

Didn’t Christ tell us that we should be as children?

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

Hello, and good morning my friend!

Thank you for referencing the written work of Fr. Korolevsky, with which I am familiar yet have not yet committed to reading in full.

While I do not entirely agree with the premise of a self imposed Latinization (it would be hard for an American Ruthenian with an appreciation for modern history to do so), the concept of the “Latinization of the mind” is certainly credible and virtually proven. Our Bishops are well aware of the challenges associated with reversing this course, as the adult members of their flocks have been engrained with a “status quo”.

As an example, I recall the recent thread here regarding Sayedna Samra’s pastoral instructions on “First Communion” celebrations in the Melkite Church. The reactions here and among the faithful speak volumes as to the effect of Latinization even to present times. By that, I also mean that some of the “motives of the mind (and heart)” for ECs to want to retain Latinizations were well highlighted by the reactions and comments of several non ECs in that discussion.

We all want to be included, but its hard to feel included when you are different. We learn that as children in the schoolyard.

That said, I do believe the pendulum finally swung the other way in 1996, with the Curia pushing it that way. There are credible stories of the Congregation for Eastern Churches coming down hard on EC bishops for not moving fast enough after the promulgation of the Eastern Code of Canons, which prompted the issuance of The Instruction for Applying the Liturgical Prescriptions of the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches.

So, on a positive note, Rome is now fully in board and actually pushing the issue, a far cry from where we were at the beginning of the 20th century.

Now the bishops and clergy must be brave enough to follow through, for the sake of the upcoming generation and beyond.

My 7yr old son will be making his First Penance in less than two weeks. My mom sent him an email, mentioning that she was excited about coming to visit for his “First Holy Communion”. He wrote back “I already get Communion - I need penance”.

Didn’t Christ tell us that we should be as children?

I suppose Korolevsky’s work is now somewhat dated. Perhaps at the time he didn’t have quite enough info to point at anything but self-imposed Latinization. He does mention that at least the official policy of Rome has always been for an authentic Eastern Catholicism (non-Latinized). But as you and I are both well aware, official policy only rarely reflects lived reality. For example, many Latinizations in Ukrainian Catholicism were adopted because of pressure they were receiving from Polish Roman Catholics.

In general Korolevsky’s works are well worth reading, though, even if they are dated.

And congratulations to your son both on his first Penance, and on his wisdom! Young minds and hearts are a beautiful thing.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

But as you and I are both well aware, official policy only rarely reflects lived reality.

Well said, and that was what I was feebly trying to convey. I do agree with Vico that “officially” it can be traced back to Orientale Dignitas, but there were many detours and other diversions along the way. I would still say the process on the ground really didn’t begin until the 1990’s.

And thanks for your kind congratulations! We have a very nice group of youngsters in the First Penance class this year. They will make their First Penance on a Saturday morning and receive the Holy Eucharist together as a group the following day at Sunday Divine Liturgy. We also will be receiving into the Church that Sunday twin infant girls, and will further be Chrismating three other children who were baptized in other Churches. Should be quite a Sacramental Sunday here!

As for my son’s wisdom, I thank his Catechist and Fr Jack. There is promise for the next generation!

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

Well said, and that was what I was feebly trying to convey. I do agree with Vico that “officially” it can be traced back to Orientale Dignitas, but there were many detours and other diversions along the way. I would still say the process on the ground really didn’t begin until the 1990’s.

And thanks for your kind congratulations! We have a very nice group of youngsters in the First Penance class this year. They will make their First Penance on a Saturday morning and receive the Holy Eucharist together as a group the following day at Sunday Divine Liturgy. We also will be receiving into the Church that Sunday twin infant girls, and will further be Chrismating three other children who were baptized in other Churches. Should be quite a Sacramental Sunday here!

As for my son’s wisdom, I thank his Catechist and Fr Jack. There is promise for the next generation!

The saddest thing is that on the ground level Eastern Catholics still meet with so much internal and external resistance to de-Latinization, mostly from well-intentioned, albeit ill-informed, faithful - be they Roman Catholic or Eastern.

That sounds like quite the event at your parish! My son is being received into the Church this Sunday. We’re very much looking forward to it.

 

[Seamus_L]

It’s no surprise at all and it’s a big reason why I always expect the people who are so gung ho on “de-Latinization” to eventually leave the Catholic Church. When the church and the liturgical practices are nearly identical to the Orthodox, then the argument often becomes “but the parishoners still think like Latins”. I’ve even heard that argument from Melkites who left.

 

[ConstantineTG]

It’s no surprise at all and it’s a big reason why I always expect the people who are so gung ho on “de-Latinization” to eventually leave the Catholic Church. When the church and the liturgical practices are nearly identical to the Orthodox, then the argument often becomes “but the parishoners still think like Latins”. I’ve even heard that argument from Melkites who left.

The same thing happens with traditionalists. They go to schismatic groups like the SSPX and other sedevacantists. Why don’t you point that out to them?

 

[ByzCathCantor]

That sounds like quite the event at your parish! My son is being received into the Church this Sunday. We’re very much looking forward to it.

Blessings to your son and your family! May God grant his new servant many happy, healthy and blessed years!

 

[Seamus_L]

I’m not saying that never happens Constantine, but in the Diocese where I live, when more Vatican approved Latin Masses were introduced, a number of people came back from the SSPX.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I’m not saying that never happens Constantine, but in the Diocese where I live, when more Vatican approved Latin Masses were introduced, a number of people came back from the SSPX.

When we are free form any and all Latinizations, the same will happen to us.

 

[choliks]

I pray that Our Lord would let the Eastern Churches’ identity be fully restored and embraced soon.

Blessed Mary, Bearer of Our Lord, pray for us.

 

[Vico]

The reason that the Latinizations remain is popular piety. Has anyone here tried to herd cats?

 

[Cavaradossi]

Hello, and good morning my friend!

Thank you for referencing the written work of Fr. Korolevsky, with which I am familiar yet have not yet committed to reading in full.

While I do not entirely agree with the premise of a self imposed Latinization (it would be hard for an American Ruthenian with an appreciation for modern history to do so), the concept of the “Latinization of the mind” is certainly credible and virtually proven. Our Bishops are well aware of the challenges associated with reversing this course, as the adult members of their flocks have been engrained with a “status quo”.

As an example, I recall the recent thread here regarding Sayedna Samra’s pastoral instructions on “First Communion” celebrations in the Melkite Church. The reactions here and among the faithful speak volumes as to the effect of Latinization even to present times. By that, I also mean that some of the “motives of the mind (and heart)” for ECs to want to retain Latinizations were well highlighted by the reactions and comments of several non ECs in that discussion.

We all want to be included, but its hard to feel included when you are different. We learn that as children in the schoolyard.

That said, I do believe the pendulum finally swung the other way in 1996, with the Curia pushing it that way. There are credible stories of the Congregation for Eastern Churches coming down hard on EC bishops for not moving fast enough after the promulgation of the Eastern Code of Canons, which prompted the issuance of The Instruction for Applying the Liturgical Prescriptions of the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches.

So, on a positive note, Rome is now fully in board and actually pushing the issue, a far cry from where we were at the beginning of the 20th century.

Now the bishops and clergy must be brave enough to follow through, for the sake of the upcoming generation and beyond.

My 7yr old son will be making his First Penance in less than two weeks. My mom sent him an email, mentioning that she was excited about coming to visit for his “First Holy Communion”. He wrote back “I already get Communion - I need penance”.

Didn’t Christ tell us that we should be as children?

How sweet and innocuously honest. Many years!

The saddest thing is that on the ground level Eastern Catholics still meet with so much internal and external resistance to de-Latinization, mostly from well-intentioned, albeit ill-informed, faithful - be they Roman Catholic or Eastern.

That sounds like quite the event at your parish! My son is being received into the Church this Sunday. We’re very much looking forward to it.

Many years! I’ll try to keep both of your young ones in my prayers as they approach these important milestones

 

[ThatOneGuy92]

My 7yr old son will be making his First Penance in less than two weeks. My mom sent him an email, mentioning that she was excited about coming to visit for his “First Holy Communion”. He wrote back “I already get Communion - I need penance”.

This made me giggle. Hearing the words, “I need penance”, spoken by a child. Oh, out of the mouths of lambs…