When did the de-latinization of the Easter Churches start?

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Please pardon my ignorance here, but I have a question on de-Latinization and the laity.

For example I as a Roman Catholic (granted I’m contemplating becoming Eastern Catholic) generally recite a Byzantine Compline at night rather than the one from the LOTH. So, what is the feeling of, say, Eastern Catholics saying the rosary in private?

I totally get where it can be an issue with the liturgy and the Sacred Mysteries, but what about in the private sphere?

🙂
 
Yikes! Several posts down, and only now I realized the typographical error in my title. My apologies. 😊
 
Cavaradossi said:
Many years! I’ll try to keep both of your young ones in my prayers as they approach these important milestones 🙂
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Thanks, Cavaradossi. I know my kids could certainly use all the prayers they can get. With me as their father, they’re bound to suffer some embarrassments and disappointments; Lord have mercy! 😛
 
Phillip_Rolfes said:
Thanks, Cavaradossi. I know my kids could certainly use all the prayers they can get. With me as their father, they’re bound to suffer some embarrassments and disappointments; Lord have mercy! 😛
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We were once having a studio party at my voice teacher’s house. He called his youngest son, somewhere around six to eight, to come greet all of us. His son refused and turned his back on us, to which our teacher responded, “look everybody, it’s the back of Milo’s head!” This of course, embarrassed his son greatly and sent him running off in frustration. Our teacher remarked, “the job of a father is to embarrass his children.” 😃
 
Cavaradossi said:
We were once having a studio party at my voice teacher’s house. He called his youngest son, somewhere around six to eight, to come greet all of us. His son refused and turned his back on us, to which our teacher responded, “look everybody, it’s the back of Milo’s head!” This of course, embarrassed his son greatly and sent him running off in frustration. Our teacher remarked, “the job of a father is to embarrass his children.” 😃
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Thanks for the anecdote. It might be of use when my daughter grows up a bit. 🙂
 
Seamus_L said:
I’m not saying that never happens Constantine, but in the Diocese where I live, when more Vatican approved Latin Masses were introduced, a number of people came back from the SSPX.
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Exactly. There is no need for folks to leave and flock to the SSPX. Those who attend EF parishes and diocesan TLMs are already quite traditional in their thinking.

So what of the Eastern Catholics who actually like Latinizations. Do they face tremendous pressure in becoming de-latinized or do they have a choice?
 
Domnall said:
Please pardon my ignorance here, but I have a question on de-Latinization and the laity.

For example I as a Roman Catholic (granted I’m contemplating becoming Eastern Catholic) generally recite a Byzantine Compline at night rather than the one from the LOTH. So, what is the feeling of, say, Eastern Catholics saying the rosary in private?

I totally get where it can be an issue with the liturgy and the Sacred Mysteries, but what about in the private sphere?

🙂
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I’m not an Eastern Catholic, but I believe they are free to say the rosary in private.
 
Celticnovice said:
I’m not an Eastern Catholic, but I believe they are free to say the rosary in private.
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Eastern canons.

CCEO Canon 17
The Christian faithful have the right to worship God according to the prescriptions of their own Church sui iuris, and to follow their own form of spiritual life consonant with the teaching of the Church.
 
This year, while visiting a Ukrainian Catholic Church, I saw a posted announcement asking for donations for an orphanage in Ukraine. Among the items they were requesting, were rosaries along with other religious medals.
The rosary is as beloved in the East as it is the West.
 
Not exactly sure what you’re getting at ByzCathCantor, but if you suspect I’m exaggerating, all I have to say is that you’re in for quite a shock if you ever meet some of the Basilian Fathers I’ve met over the years, and I’m not just referring to the ones over 70.
 
Seamus_L said:
This year, while visiting a Ukrainian Catholic Church, I saw a posted announcement asking for donations for an orphanage in Ukraine. Among the items they were requesting, were rosaries along with other religious medals.
Code: 
                             The rosary is as beloved in the East as it is the West.
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I have heard that the prayer rope used to pray the Jesus Prayer is sometimes referred to as a rosary.
 
*Merriam Webster has for rosary, noun:

1 often capitalized* : a Roman Catholic devotion consisting of meditation on usually five sacred mysteries during recitation of five decades of Hail Marys of which each begins with an Our Father and ends with a Gloria Patri
2** :** a string of beads used in counting prayers especially of the Roman Catholic rosary
 
I honestly find the issue of the rosary in the Eastern Catholic tradition to be somewhat blown out of proportion. There is, in fact, an authentically Eastern “rosary” that predates the Roman rosary and is prayed on Mt. Athos to this day; in fact, I believe the monks of Mt. Athos are required to pray it daily. The Byzantine rosary is called the “Prayer Rule of the Theotokos.” It’s form is somewhat more fluid than the Dominican rosary that most Roman Catholics pray. I can think of two variation of the Prayer Rule of the Theotokos off the top of my head: that of St. Seraphim of Sarov, and that of St. Seraphim Zvezdinsky. I have my own variation of it at the moment, but only because I’ve not yet memorized either of the above mentioned versions.

The only issue I have with Eastern/Byzantine Catholics praying the Dominican/Roman rosary is when it is prayed publicly in place of Orthros/Matins or Third Hour before the Divine Liturgy. I don’t really even have an issue with the rosary being prayed publicly, so long as it is not prayed in place of the Church’s liturgical life. In our tradition the only prayer rule that can replace the celebration of the Hours is the Jesus Prayer.

That being said, I believe it would be preferable if Eastern/Byzantine Catholics prayed their own ancient form of the rosary, or some variation of it, rather than adopting a form that isn’t part of their tradition and differs from it in some ways. But in the end, prayer is prayer. What matters is not the words we say, but the attitude of the mind and heart while praying. At least, that’s what St. Theophan the Recluse says. I tend to trust his judgment. 😛
 
Phillip_Rolfes said:
I honestly find the issue of the rosary in the Eastern Catholic tradition to be somewhat blown out of proportion. There is, in fact, an authentically Eastern “rosary” that predates the Roman rosary and is prayed on Mt. Athos to this day; in fact, I believe the monks of Mt. Athos are required to pray it daily. The Byzantine rosary is called the “Prayer Rule of the Theotokos.” It’s form is somewhat more fluid than the Dominican rosary that most Roman Catholics pray. I can think of two variation of the Prayer Rule of the Theotokos off the top of my head: that of St. Seraphim of Sarov, and that of St. Seraphim Zvezdinsky. I have my own variation of it at the moment, but only because I’ve not yet memorized either of the above mentioned versions.

The only issue I have with Eastern/Byzantine Catholics praying the Dominican/Roman rosary is when it is prayed publicly in place of Orthros/Matins or Third Hour before the Divine Liturgy. I don’t really even have an issue with the rosary being prayed publicly, so long as it is not prayed in place of the Church’s liturgical life. In our tradition the only prayer rule that can replace the celebration of the Hours is the Jesus Prayer.

That being said, I believe it would be preferable if Eastern/Byzantine Catholics prayed their own ancient form of the rosary, or some variation of it, rather than adopting a form that isn’t part of their tradition and differs from it in some ways. But in the end, prayer is prayer. What matters is not the words we say, but the attitude of the mind and heart while praying. At least, that’s what St. Theophan the Recluse says. I tend to trust his judgment. 😛
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👍👍👍
 
Phillip_Rolfes said:
I honestly find the issue of the rosary in the Eastern Catholic tradition to be somewhat blown out of proportion. There is, in fact, an authentically Eastern “rosary” that predates the Roman rosary and is prayed on Mt. Athos to this day; in fact, I believe the monks of Mt. Athos are required to pray it daily. The Byzantine rosary is called the “Prayer Rule of the Theotokos.” It’s form is somewhat more fluid than the Dominican rosary that most Roman Catholics pray. I can think of two variation of the Prayer Rule of the Theotokos off the top of my head: that of St. Seraphim of Sarov, and that of St. Seraphim Zvezdinsky. I have my own variation of it at the moment, but only because I’ve not yet memorized either of the above mentioned versions.

The only issue I have with Eastern/Byzantine Catholics praying the Dominican/Roman rosary is when it is prayed publicly in place of Orthros/Matins or Third Hour before the Divine Liturgy. I don’t really even have an issue with the rosary being prayed publicly, so long as it is not prayed in place of the Church’s liturgical life. In our tradition the only prayer rule that can replace the celebration of the Hours is the Jesus Prayer.

That being said, I believe it would be preferable if Eastern/Byzantine Catholics prayed their own ancient form of the rosary, or some variation of it, rather than adopting a form that isn’t part of their tradition and differs from it in some ways. But in the end, prayer is prayer. What matters is not the words we say, but the attitude of the mind and heart while praying. At least, that’s what St. Theophan the Recluse says. I tend to trust his judgment. 😛
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ThatOneGuy92 said:
👍👍👍
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Ditto! 👍👍👍
 
I honestly find the issue of the rosary in the Eastern Catholic tradition to be somewhat blown out of proportion.
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I was not aware that there was an “issue” regarding the rosary. I was just asking out of mere curiosity if there was the same thing or similar in the Eastern Rite.
There is, in fact, an authentically Eastern “rosary” that predates the Roman rosary and is prayed on Mt. Athos to this day; in fact, I believe the monks of Mt. Athos are required to pray it daily. The Byzantine rosary is called the “Prayer Rule of the Theotokos.” It’s form is somewhat more fluid than the Dominican rosary that most Roman Catholics pray. I can think of two variation of the Prayer Rule of the Theotokos off the top of my head: that of St. Seraphim of Sarov, and that of St. Seraphim Zvezdinsky. I have my own variation of it at the moment, but only because I’ve not yet memorized either of the above mentioned versions.
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Can you provide a link or something to these variations?
The only issue I have with Eastern/Byzantine Catholics praying the Dominican/Roman rosary is when it is prayed publicly in place of Orthros/Matins or Third Hour before the Divine Liturgy. I don’t really even have an issue with the rosary being prayed publicly, so long as it is not prayed in place of the Church’s liturgical life. In our tradition the only prayer rule that can replace the celebration of the Hours is the Jesus Prayer.
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Agreed! Don’t change the liturgy…
That being said, I believe it would be preferable if Eastern/Byzantine Catholics prayed their own ancient form of the rosary, or some variation of it, rather than adopting a form that isn’t part of their tradition and differs from it in some ways. But in the end, prayer is prayer. What matters is not the words we say, but the attitude of the mind and heart while praying. At least, that’s what St. Theophan the Recluse says. I tend to trust his judgment. 😛
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Though I would like to be aware of these Eastern variations…
 
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