When do I leave?

[rr1213]

I firmly believe that what God has put together man should not put asunder. Nontheless, I don’t see why divorce seems to be the “unforgivable sin” that precludes believers from being in a state of grace so they can partake of the Eucharist. If you confess the sin and are absolved, why can’t you take the Eucharist? Is it that it is impossible to confess the sin if you are living in a marriage that is not recognized by the Church? I’m sure that I’m missing some nuances here. What am I missing?

 

[rr1213]

I think your sig-line tells you precisely what to do:

"Faith is not the refuge of the weak-minded but the domain of the brave."

Leave in as dramatic a way as possible, and bring the truth to those in your old congregation, by bringing them with you, as soon as possible.

It’s EASY for me to be “brave”. This is not my situation.

Do the best you can.

Best to you…!

Why should she leave in “as dramatic a way as possible” and thereby probably cause further pain among a parish that has already suffered so much that they would leave their former church home? I don’t think that she should hide what she is doing by any means but this is not good advice.

 

[Contarini]

I firmly believe that what God has put together man should not put asunder. Nontheless, I don’t see why divorce seems to be the “unforgivable sin” that precludes believers from being in a state of grace so they can partake of the Eucharist. If you confess the sin and are absolved, why can’t you take the Eucharist? Is it that it is impossible to confess the sin if you are living in a marriage that is not recognized by the Church? I’m sure that I’m missing some nuances here. What am I missing?

You’re missing that in principle persons living in a second marriage are living in a state of adultery. The problem is that Catholic priests don’t want to put it this way. They are trying to be gentle but they mostly succeed in being confusing, and in the end they are cruel because they give people the impression that they have committed a sin for which they can only be forgiven by going through a complex legal charade (i.e., annulment–I’m not saying that annulment is always a charade, but that’s what it looks like on the street).

It seems to me that the obvious solution is to make the “brother and sister” option explicit and to encourage it widely, while at the same time continuing to show compassion and patience with those who cannot take this approach and thus are unable to receive communion (unless they get an annulment). This is also how gay couples should be treated, IMHO.

Edwin

 

[jmcrae]

Edwin;

I know that there are a lot of Catholics out there who are confused - I used to recruit them into my very liberal Protestant denomination all the time, on the basis that we were “non-judgemental” - however, while discerning to become a Catholic, and since becoming Catholic, I have never actually met a priest who doesn’t explain this particular problem very, very clearly, and outline the options in a very straightforward way.

What I suspect is that these confused Catholics aren’t even going to see a priest at all, out of fear. Instead, they’re getting their information from other confused Catholics and/or from well-meaning but equally confused Protestants and others.

 

[Contarini]

Edwin;

I know that there are a lot of Catholics out there who are confused - I used to recruit them into my very liberal Protestant denomination all the time, on the basis that we were “non-judgemental” - however, while discerning to become a Catholic, and since becoming Catholic, I have never actually met a priest who doesn’t explain this particular problem very, very clearly, and outline the options in a very straightforward way.

What I suspect is that these confused Catholics aren’t even going to see a priest at all, out of fear. Instead, they’re getting their information from other confused Catholics and/or from well-meaning but equally confused Protestants and others.

Well, I’d like to believe you (in your generalization, that is–of course I believe you with regards to your own experience). But in the first place the lady of whom I spoke told me that she did go to a priest, and I believe her. In the second place, the “brokenness” explanation that I cited above was given by the priest running the RCIA program from which I dropped out. I’m afraid priests do bear a good deal of the blame for this. You were obviously luckier than I in your priests! (The fact that I was in the Diocese of Raleigh, of which conservative Catholics generally have little good to say, may have had something to do with it.)

What denomination did you belong to? Episcopal churches are full of divorced Catholics. . . . I have never tried to persuade any Catholic to become Episcopalian, though (God forbid). If an ex-Catholic were unchurched, I would invite them to church, but only if I thought it was impossible to persuade them to give the Catholic Church another try. I’m dubious enough about encouraging low-church Protestants to become Episcopalian. . . .

Edwin

 

[jmcrae]

Well, I’d like to believe you (in your generalization, that is–of course I believe you with regards to your own experience). But in the first place the lady of whom I spoke told me that she did go to a priest, and I believe her. In the second place, the “brokenness” explanation that I cited above was given by the priest running the RCIA program from which I dropped out. I’m afraid priests do bear a good deal of the blame for this. You were obviously luckier than I in your priests! (The fact that I was in the Diocese of Raleigh, of which conservative Catholics generally have little good to say, may have had something to do with it.)

Blech.

RCIA is good for getting across the basics of the faith, but this sort of thing (issues around divorce and remarriage) really needs to be dealt with in a private meeting with the priest - I have no idea why they would be discussing such a thing in an open meeting.

The precepts on marriage can be presented without getting into very much about divorce, other than to say, “Catholic marriage presumes that there is no such thing as a divorce” and then give the Scriptural and traditional backing for that, without getting into canon law at all.

What denomination did you belong to?

The United Church of Canada.

Episcopal churches are full of divorced Catholics. . . . I have never tried to persuade any Catholic to become Episcopalian, though (God forbid). If an ex-Catholic were unchurched, I would invite them to church, but only if I thought it was impossible to persuade them to give the Catholic Church another try. I’m dubious enough about encouraging low-church Protestants to become Episcopalian.

At the time, I thought I was doing the work of God.

 

[Godfollower]

Why should she leave in “as dramatic a way as possible” and thereby probably cause further pain among a parish that has already suffered so much that they would leave their former church home? I don’t think that she should hide what she is doing by any means but this is not good advice.

I agree. Crosstimbers, talk to your “old” paster and explain what’s happening, and by all means do what’s necessary to transition your “old” duties to your replacement(s) (even if there have to be 17 of them). If others ask, feel free to explain why you’re leaving; there’s nothing wrong with that.

But if you stand up in the middle of Sunday service and shout “This is wrong! I’m leaving and becoming Catholic!” all that will happen is the others will think how rude you were and wonder whether that’s what the Church teaches. Granted, you shouldn’t hide your lamp under a bushel basket, but you don’t need to set fire to the building, either.

It isn’t like you’re converting from the Church of Satan. You can still be polite to your old fellow congregants and make sure the food drive (or whatever you’re in charge of) goes smoothly. Ask to be relieved of anything that troubles your conscience, and smoothly fade out into your new life as a Catholic.

And, by the way, welcome home!

 

[crosstimbers]

My Episcopal priest knows I was investigating the Catholic faith. I don’t think he will be surprised when I talk to him. I plan to ask him how he wants to handle my departure…i.e. how public or quiet. I’m willing to tell the truth but I don’t want to do anything that would be hurtful to the church I’m leaving. They are good, brave people.

 

[rr1213]

Granted, you shouldn’t hide your lamp under a bushel basket, but you don’t need to set fire to the building, either.

Very well said.

 

[Keikiolu]

Why should she leave in “as dramatic a way as possible” and thereby probably cause further pain among a parish that has already suffered so much that they would leave their former church home? I don’t think that she should hide what she is doing by any means but this is not good advice.

By leaving after, say, going to the pulpit and announcing that in his opinion the Catholic Church is a better choice than even where they are now, would explicitly send a message to the assembled about his level of conviction.

That is the definition of “evangelization”.

It could (perhaps easily) be delivered in such a way that would be LESS distressing to the parishoners than his simply “quietly disappearing”.

There’s going to be “talk” and “whispers” about what had happened anyway, of course.

Perhaps it would be better to get the “real scoop” out into the open?

It’s really a temperment question. How does the OP feel about dealing with this opportunity to evangelize, and how it looks to the parishoners if he leaves “explicitly” as opposed to “ghostlike”.

*EDIT:

Yes, I am being a bit flippant. Admittedly.

This is NOT my situation, and it costs me nothing to state a possible “solution” to this situation.

I personally would most likely NOT leave in a dramatic manner, as I’m certainly NOT that great a public speaker, and that would be the job of a master speaker.

But,… the “dramatic approach” is a legitimate opportunity for having a DEEP communication with a group of somewhat disillusioned people about their possibilities in faith.

I’ve just tossed it out there as something to consider.

Thanks for your forebearance. *

 

[water]

My Episcopal priest knows I was investigating the Catholic faith. I don’t think he will be surprised when I talk to him. I plan to ask him how he wants to handle my departure…i.e. how public or quiet. I’m willing to tell the truth but I don’t want to do anything that would be hurtful to the church I’m leaving. They are good, brave people.

That is very considerate of you. By doing that, hopefully you will always have a good relationship with your current Episcopal priest and others. From having a good relationship, you can later talk about your faith with them.