When do I leave?

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bankerdavid said:
Because we were not originally married in the presence of a priest.
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I don’t think it matters with respect to Protestant marriages. I take it that one or the two of you had been Catholic and you married without the blessing of the Church?
 
rr1213 said:
I don’t think it matters with respect to Protestant marriages. I take it that one or the two of you had been Catholic and you married without the blessing of the Church?
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My wife was/is Catholic, divorced, remarried me, got an annullment. We got married in a courthouse.
 
Crosstimbers,
I don’t know that I have any additional advice for you; besides, it seems like you have worked this through pretty well already. You write very beautifully & charitably & I just wanted to say, “Welcome Home!”

If you are not already familiar with it, The Coming Home Network may be of interest to you. It’s associated with Marcus Grodi of EWTN’s The Journey Home program.
 
Crosstimbers,

With regard to your pending annulment, here is some food for thought: you might be able to receive the eucharist before your annulment is granted.

In many cases couples whose marriages are not recognized by the Church are permitted to cohabit without the stain of sin as long as they agree to abstain from sexual activity. This is euphemistically called living together “as brother and sister”. If the annulment is granted, sexual activity may resume after your marriage is recognized by the Church.

If this interests you, discuss it with your wife and with a Catholic pastor.

Godspeed!
 
Loy said:
In many cases couples whose marriages are not recognized by the Church are permitted to cohabit without the stain of sin as long as they agree to abstain from sexual activity. This is euphemistically called living together “as brother and sister”. If the annulment is granted, sexual activity may resume after your marriage is recognized by the Church.
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Thanks Loy. I have heard of this but haven’t broached the subject with my husband (I’m the wife in this scenario;) ). I understand the Church’s teaching on this, but I’m not sure where I am with it yet. And although he was baptized a Catholic he has never lived as one. I just want to be sure of my feelings on this before I talk to him about it. He is such a loving, wonderful husband that I would hate for him to feel rejected or hurt. He’s just not on the same path that I am right now.

Nancy
 
bankerdavid said:
I think you’re worried about being able to receive Eucharist at Easter Vigil. If you go to confession prior to Easter Vigil, the priest should hear that you’re going through the Annulment process, and you’re confessing your divorce. You should still be allowed to receive Eucharist at Easter.

God Bless.
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This is totally incorrect.

First, we don’t know yet whether the annulment will be granted. Nobody - not even the members of the Tribunal - know what the outcome is going to be - if they did, they wouldn’t even bother with a trial; they’d just make a ruling.

If it isn’t granted, then she will not be eligible to receive the Sacraments until at least one of her husbands dies, and she is in a valid marriage with the other.

The order of events is this;
  1. Receive the Declaration of Nullity or if it is denied, wait until one of her husbands dies.
  2. Go to Confession.
  3. Enter into a valid marriage with the still-living husband. (This can be done in a very short, very quiet ceremony in the priest’s office - it takes about 10 minutes.)
  4. Receive the Sacraments of Initiation, and begin to live the Catholic life.
 
jmcrae said:
This is totally incorrect.

First, we don’t know yet whether the annulment will be granted. Nobody - not even the members of the Tribunal - know what the outcome is going to be - if they did, they wouldn’t even bother with a trial; they’d just make a ruling.

If it isn’t granted, then she will not be eligible to receive the Sacraments until at least one of her husbands dies, and she is in a valid marriage with the other.

The order of events is this;
  1. Receive the Declaration of Nullity or if it is denied, wait until one of her husbands dies.
  2. Go to Confession.
  3. Enter into a valid marriage with the still-living husband. (This can be done in a very short, very quiet ceremony in the priest’s office - it takes about 10 minutes.)
  4. Receive the Sacraments of Initiation, and begin to live the Catholic life.
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Thanks for the clarification.
 
jmcrae said:
This is totally incorrect.

First, we don’t know yet whether the annulment will be granted. Nobody - not even the members of the Tribunal - know what the outcome is going to be - if they did, they wouldn’t even bother with a trial; they’d just make a ruling.

If it isn’t granted, then she will not be eligible to receive the Sacraments until at least one of her husbands dies, and she is in a valid marriage with the other.

The order of events is this;
  1. Receive the Declaration of Nullity or if it is denied, wait until one of her husbands dies.
  2. Go to Confession.
  3. Enter into a valid marriage with the still-living husband. (This can be done in a very short, very quiet ceremony in the priest’s office - it takes about 10 minutes.)
  4. Receive the Sacraments of Initiation, and begin to live the Catholic life.
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Yes this is how I understood it to be. I don’t expect to be received into the church until this issue is resolved.
 
jmcrae said:
This is totally incorrect.

First, we don’t know yet whether the annulment will be granted. Nobody - not even the members of the Tribunal - know what the outcome is going to be - if they did, they wouldn’t even bother with a trial; they’d just make a ruling.

If it isn’t granted, then she will not be eligible to receive the Sacraments until at least one of her husbands dies, and she is in a valid marriage with the other.

The order of events is this;
  1. Receive the Declaration of Nullity or if it is denied, wait until one of her husbands dies.
  2. Go to Confession.
  3. Enter into a valid marriage with the still-living husband. (This can be done in a very short, very quiet ceremony in the priest’s office - it takes about 10 minutes.)
  4. Receive the Sacraments of Initiation, and begin to live the Catholic life.
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When one is in this touchy situation, what happens when you are outlived by your spouse?
 
rr1213 said:
When one is in this touchy situation, what happens when you are outlived by your spouse?
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Ideally, one would receive the Sacraments on one’s death bed.

But I believe that God knows the intentions of the heart, and if the intent to be a Catholic was there, then the person would be Catholic at the time of the Judgement - along the same lines as Baptism of Desire, I should think. (That’s just my personal opinion - if this is a real life situation, then you want to contact a priest and speak to him in confidence, to get specific information concerning your particular situation.)
 
jmcrae said:
Ideally, one would receive the Sacraments on one’s death bed.

But I believe that God knows the intentions of the heart, and if the intent to be a Catholic was there, then the person would be Catholic at the time of the Judgement - along the same lines as Baptism of Desire, I should think. (That’s just my personal opinion - if this is a real life situation, then you want to contact a priest and speak to him in confidence, to get specific information concerning your particular situation.)
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No real life situation. Just curious. You’d think some type of accomodation would need to be made.
 
rr1213 said:
No real life situation. Just curious. You’d think some type of accomodation would need to be made.
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God provides whatever we lack - the truly sincere will always make it. Nobody dies without God knowing about it, and having His own plan in place for that person.

In the mean time, we all experience the consequences of our sins, one way, or another.
 
I think you already have your answer and I believe it totally understandable that you feel “pulled” to the old way. We often have a hard time leaving that “comfort” zone!

You are now in the prayers of many… let the Holy Spirit continue to guide you. He won’t fail you as do the man-made institutions.

Welcome home brother~
Renee
 
To be honest I have struggled some with the Church’s stand on re-marriage. I so respect the high regard for marriage held by the Church. In my heart, when the priest explained the concept of a valid union, I instantly saw that my first marriage was not a sacramental one even though we were both baptized believers and were married for twenty years. It explained a lot. :rolleyes: I will spare you the details.
Four years ago I met a wonderful man, a widower, and we have been married three years now. I strongly believe that God brought us together. We were married in the Episcopal Church long before the Catholic Church was even on my radar. Even if I had known then about this teaching on remarriage, there is no recourse for annulment in TEC and remarriage of divorced persons is allowed.( I’m not saying that is right or trying to make excuses, I’m just explaining the circumstances.) I have a hard time accepting that God would bring me and us so far and then ask me to either leave my current marriage or live as brother and sister. But I am choosing to leave this matter in His hands and the wisdom of the Church at this time. I don’t have to see the top of the stairs to take the next step.
 
Loy said:
Crosstimbers,

With regard to your pending annulment, here is some food for thought: you might be able to receive the eucharist before your annulment is granted.

In many cases couples whose marriages are not recognized by the Church are permitted to cohabit without the stain of sin as long as they agree to abstain from sexual activity. This is euphemistically called living together “as brother and sister”. If the annulment is granted, sexual activity may resume after your marriage is recognized by the Church.

If this interests you, discuss it with your wife and with a Catholic pastor.

Godspeed!
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I do not understand why this option is not more commonly discussed. I find it astounding that people who allegedly accept the Catholic Church’s teaching take it as a matter of course that they are going to continue having intercourse but will not receive communion until the Church annuls the previous marriage. Since in principle the second marriage is adulterous, wouldn’t it be obvious that one should not have intercourse unless and until the annulment is granted. I know that this would be horribly tough, but in some circumstances the rules on birth control might result in the same situation. And of course persons with exclusively homosexual inclinations are expected to be celibate.

I’m not saying this to be hard on those who are in this terribly difficult situation. I don’t know if I’d be able to do it. What astonishes me is that the option is rarely even brought up.

Not only that, but the further assumption in Catholic circles seems to be that if you are divorced you can’t receive communion even if you are not remarried! I knew a woman in my Episcopal church in NC who had been told by a priest (or at least this is how she had understood it) that she could not receive absolution for her two divorces (even though she was now living celibately) but had to get her marriages annulled. This was why she was attending the Episcopal Church, because as she understood it she could not ever receive communion in the Catholic Church (regardless of her current marital status) without going through the annulment process.

It seems to me that this is a case where Catholic priests would rather exclude large numbers of people from communion under a highly dubious and genuinely hard-hearted rationale (the argument I heard was that divorce is a sign of “brokenness” and one can’t receive the Eucharist in such a state–in which case wouldn’t we all be excluded?), than bite the bullet and tell people that they are living in sin.

Edwin
 
crosstimbers said:
This is a long post, but I would really appreciate some feedback.

I am a former Episcopalian who began investigating Catholism last summer when the Episcopal church accelerated its slide into apostasy. I joined …

{snip}

…But here is my dilemma: I feel terribly guilty about leaving my fledgling Anglican church. Right now I’m attending Saturday Mass and the Anglican service on Sunday. At what point is it time for me to leave?
Thanks
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I think your sig-line tells you precisely what to do:

"Faith is not the refuge of the weak-minded but the domain of the brave."

Leave in as dramatic a way as possible, and bring the truth to those in your old congregation, by bringing them with you, as soon as possible.

It’s EASY for me to be “brave”. This is not my situation.

Do the best you can.

Best to you…!
 
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