When do you claim that the Catholic Church began

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GregoryPalamas

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We keep reading reports from people who claim that the Catholic Church began at various times throughout history and at the same time that they are either the true Catholic Church, or that somehow they are really connected to the true Catholic Church but the Catholic Church just won’t recognize them.

Ok, fine, now state your claim when the Catholic Church began and state how you are either the real Catholic Church as opposed to the Catholic Church that holds that name or how the Catholic Church isn’t the Catholic Church and at any rate your group has split from them.

CDL
 
Of course. He promised that Peter would lead prior to Pentecost. Pentecost was his coming out party after the Spirit of Christ filled him up.

CDL
 
I chose Pentecost, however, I would go even farther back to when Christ asked the first apostle to follow him, but that was not an option. Guess I should have checked “other”. 🤷

~Liza
 
lizaanne said:
I chose Pentecost, however, I would go even farther back to when Christ asked the first apostle to follow him, but that was not an option. Guess I should have checked “other”. 🤷

~Liza
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One could even go back to St. Paul’s assertion in Ephesians 1 that the Church’s pedigree goes back to before time. Your observation that the Church began with the calling of the Apostles but it was not fully formed until the Holy Spirit bound them together.

CDL
 
I have always understood the tradition to be Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit descended to empower Her.
 
I checked off Pentecost.

However, I can never figure out why John the Baptist is not given more credit.:confused:

He seemed to start something. In any event, I feel that the word Church has become so misunderstood.

Everyone wants to think its ambigous. Everyone wants it to be applicable to suit their personal needs. Christ has become what Man wants from him.

Even his spotless Bride, is reduced to what Man wants to call her.
 
I am not Catholic but I do know that they formed the first Church. I always thought it was when Jesus asked his who they thought him to be. It is found in Matthew 16:18.

Peter spoke up and answered Jesus, he said **“You are he, the Messiah, Son of the living God!”. **

Jesus responded: “And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” (King James Version) IMO that is when the Church started.
 
Auriel said:
I am not Catholic but I do know that they formed the first Church. I always thought it was when Jesus asked his who they thought him to be. It is found in Matthew 16:18.

Peter spoke up and answered Jesus, he said **“You are he, the Messiah, Son of the living God!”. **

Jesus responded: “And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” (King James Version) IMO that is when the Church started.
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Wow! A non-catholic that agrees with Peter and the rock verse. I never thought I’d see that. 😃

I agree, btw.
 
As a sinner myself, I would pre-date it to when Peter heard the cock crow, went out and weeped bitterly.

Think about it
 
I wrote the first option of the poll in such a way as to affirm Jesus’ proclamation of Peter by Jesus as well as St. Peter’s first official act.

I think we would love to read from those who chose other options than Pentecost as well as from those who chose Pentecost. After all this is the non-Catholic forum.

CDL
 
I think we would especially like to hear from those who chose a date for the beginning of the Church AFTER Pentecost.

CDL
 
GregoryPalamas said:
I think we would especially like to hear from those who chose a date for the beginning of the Church AFTER Pentecost.

CDL
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I chose the Council of Trent (for what you call the Catholic Church–i.e., the Roman Communion as one particular expression of Western Christianity in opposition to the Protestant churches). But one could make a case for Vatican II, or (if you don’t think Vatican II made any dogmatic definitions) for 1954, when Pius XII declared the Assumption to be dogma. If a Christian communion/confession is defined by its dogmas, then your particular confession can only be said to have existed in its current form since it last defined a dogma.

Still, I’d tend to vote for 1563, when the Council of Trent closed (I’m not sure why GregoryPalamas picked 1554, but I went with that)–and I would note that my own (Anglican) communion was only definitively separated from the Roman Communion in 1572, though clearly our relationship with you had been under a severe question mark since the accession of Elizabeth in 1558 and her reversal of many of Mary’s pro-Roman policies.

Edwin
 
Contarini said:
I chose the Council of Trent (for what you call the Catholic Church–i.e., the Roman Communion as one particular expression of Western Christianity in opposition to the Protestant churches). But one could make a case for Vatican II, or (if you don’t think Vatican II made any dogmatic definitions) for 1954, when Pius XII declared the Assumption to be dogma. If a Christian communion/confession is defined by its dogmas, then your particular confession can only be said to have existed in its current form since it last defined a dogma.

Still, I’d tend to vote for 1563, when the Council of Trent closed (I’m not sure why GregoryPalamas picked 1554, but I went with that)–and I would note that my own (Anglican) communion was only definitively separated from the Roman Communion in 1572, though clearly our relationship with you had been under a severe question mark since the accession of Elizabeth in 1558 and her reversal of many of Mary’s pro-Roman policies.

Edwin
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Man could I have fun with this. But since I don’t have time I will answer the simplest question. I put 1554 because it is mid way between the beginning and end of the Council.

Thanks for at least giving a rational. Poor Jesus. Left out again as the founder of the Church.

CDL
 
I believe that there was much forshadowing toward the church, ie “You are Peter and upon this rock…,” but I don’t think that the church offically began until Pentecost. It was then that the Apostles, came to a full understanding of their mission and began spreading the word.
 
It was always on Gods mind so I guess we can say whenever He “thought” of it first.
 
I don’t think the Catholic church began on any certain date…I would put it close to the time when the Roman Empire accepted Christianity as the state religion. Prior to that, regardless of the “mythic” story, Christianity did not operate as a single body under a single head universally…there was the largest group who sought to structure the various regional churches under one head…but as many congregations were isolated it just wasn’t possible.

Some of these groups were called “heretics” by the largest group who sought control of the “myth”…many groups vied for ascendency, but only the Roman church allied itself with the government for supremacy.

The church was never to be an 'organization", but was to exist in every nation as God’s people proclaiming the teaching of the Kingdom of God.

It is one of the oldest groups, to be sure…but the “truest”…no…IMO.
 
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