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Maximian
Guest
Unfortunately I m the sort of chap who writes to complain…
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yankeesouth
Guest
I think when it resorts to name calling. Of course, it goes both ways also…rigid, fundamentalists, etc.
I don’t think we are required to respect those clergy who go against the teachings of Jesus such as promoting women priests, homosexuality, etc.because I have the utmost respect for them.
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yankeesouth
Guest
I agree with waiting to find out more before reacting but if it turns out that the ‘problem’ is fact then it affects the whole Church no matter how far away one is.about a problem which does not even remotely affect them.
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mdgspencer
Guest
Code:
In this area I see things I don't like.
But I feel God is telling me to keep my peace, and so that is what I do.
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Dovekin
Guest
I don’t want to reply, just offering a readable version of your remark.In this area I see things I don’t like.
But I feel God is telling me to keep my peace, and so that is what I do.
blackforest
Well-known member
It depends on so many factors.
Exactly how negative are you? Do you compliment them as much as you criticize them? Do you say it to their faces, or gossip behind their backs? Is your criticism both positive and productive? Do you pray regularly for your clergy?
The best way to avoid a lack of charity is empathy. The priesthood can be a lonely life with thankless work. It is impossible for them to make everyone happy, even though that it most certainly not their job. Regular prayer for them is essential.
Exactly how negative are you? Do you compliment them as much as you criticize them? Do you say it to their faces, or gossip behind their backs? Is your criticism both positive and productive? Do you pray regularly for your clergy?
The best way to avoid a lack of charity is empathy. The priesthood can be a lonely life with thankless work. It is impossible for them to make everyone happy, even though that it most certainly not their job. Regular prayer for them is essential.
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Riman643
Guest
I meant respect for the vocation. Respect on an individual level is earned and not automatic.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Having just read your latest thread wanting to excommunicate the entire Jesuit Order (currently locked due to a lot of flags), it appears you are still not understanding what people are trying to explain to you on this thread.
If you are concerned with what the Pope is doing with respect to an order, you could say something like, "I’m concerned that this order is doing A, B and C. Shouldn’t the Pope be making them stop that? " rather than calling the Pope a bunch of names because he’s not excommunicating an entire order like you’ve simply decided, in your “expert” opinion, he should.
Someone on that thread also noted that your posts seem to show a generally very negative view of the Church and that you keep wanting to excommunicate people because you’ve decided they’re being “bad Catholics”. I am not sure where you are getting these extreme attitudes you keep manifesting, but they are often so extreme that it’s hard to even take your posts seriously.
If you are concerned with what the Pope is doing with respect to an order, you could say something like, "I’m concerned that this order is doing A, B and C. Shouldn’t the Pope be making them stop that? " rather than calling the Pope a bunch of names because he’s not excommunicating an entire order like you’ve simply decided, in your “expert” opinion, he should.
Someone on that thread also noted that your posts seem to show a generally very negative view of the Church and that you keep wanting to excommunicate people because you’ve decided they’re being “bad Catholics”. I am not sure where you are getting these extreme attitudes you keep manifesting, but they are often so extreme that it’s hard to even take your posts seriously.
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EndTimes
Guest
If it’s a lie - it’s going too far.I tend to criticize the clergy quite a bit especially the higher ups. However, for some reason many have found what I have said to be uncharitable and rude so I am curious how does one go about criticizing the clergy? I want to make sure I am not being uncharitable when talking about the clergy because I have the utmost respect for them.
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Riman643
Guest
I don’t want to excommunicate the entire Jesuit order. I just know the SSPX has been given this excommunication treatment and after all I have been reading about the Jesuit Order I was wondering if they too should be considered the same as them.Having just read your latest thread wanting to excommunicate the entire Jesuit Order (currently locked due to a lot of flags), it appears you are still not understanding what people are trying to explain to you on this thread.
I did ask a sincere question and actually had no concrete opinion on the matter. I never said “this is what needs to be done.” I have simply seen other orders receive excommunication to help get their act together so I was wondering if the Jesuit order as well need something similar. I also did not call Pope Frances any names.If you are concerned with what the Pope is doing with respect to an order, you could say something like, "I’m concerned that this order is doing A, B and C. Shouldn’t the Pope be making them stop that? " rather than calling the Pope a bunch of names because he’s not excommunicating an entire order like you’ve simply decided, in your “expert” opinion, he should.
That simply is not true. I love the Church and it is the reason I have such a great love of God. I do not view the Church negatively, I just want what is best for her and I see what I consider a lot of inaction, abuses, and lots of incorrect teachings from clergy. I guess I am just trying to comprehend some sort of solutions. If you think me wanting positive change in the Church is not serious then maybe don’t comment on my posts? I am just trying to understand things about the Church and help change it in a positive way. Sorry that I think the Church can improve on her mission to spread Christ to the world.Someone on that thread also noted that your posts seem to show a generally very negative view of the Church and that you keep wanting to excommunicate people because you’ve decided they’re being “bad Catholics”. I am not sure where you are getting these extreme attitudes you keep manifesting, but they are often so extreme that it’s hard to even take your posts seriously.
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MNathaniel
Guest
I try to remember that we are a family, and proceed with that in mind.
I also try to remember my own fallibility, that I often have to change my perspective on something when I’m given new information, and so even if I have an opinion right now, that doesn’t mean it’s the same opinion I’d have if I knew what that priest knows. I don’t know what (name removed by moderator)uts he’s been exposed to that he’s expressing an opinion different from mine; maybe he knows more than I do; maybe he knows the Spirit better than I do. Or maybe I’m right, he’s wrong, but he’s under tremendous spiritual attack and his confusion is entirely innocent and better addressed through compassion and patience than ‘criticism’.
Also, I find it helpful to remind myself that I’m also not carrying the same weight of responsibility that these men are. These men who have committed literally their entire lives to Jesus; who pray the liturgy of the hours daily, hear brutal (and frivolous) confessions, say Mass daily, bear the brunt of abuse from lay Catholics and non catholics alike. These men who are almost 100% certainly serving the Church more fully than, at least speaking for myself, I am. These are true fathers leading our family, and honestly I outgrew my teenage years… well, years ago. I don’t want to be the know it all, griping teen tearing down my dad as my dad breaks his back (and his heart) trying his best to serve us kids. I’d rather be helpful around the house, respectful, loving, and ideally make my dad’s work easier.
Anyway, I’m not trying to idolize our priests, and I’m a pretty fierce person. I may (and frequently do) have an opinion about an action taken or words said by a priest… But that’s a very different beast from assuming my opinion must therefore be right or that even if it is, I should start shouting about it. Even if I do think I’m obviously right, there’s a right and a wrong way to go about it (e.g. I’ve approached priests one on one before to offer correction when I thought it was really important. I didn’t do it in front of people, or try to shame or insult them.)
Prudence, I think. Learning to look at the community, at each person in the community (including each priest!) and think: “What does this person most need from me right now?”
Chances are there’s a long list of things way before we ever get to “advice”. I often find “Patience” ranks highly up there.
I also try to remember my own fallibility, that I often have to change my perspective on something when I’m given new information, and so even if I have an opinion right now, that doesn’t mean it’s the same opinion I’d have if I knew what that priest knows. I don’t know what (name removed by moderator)uts he’s been exposed to that he’s expressing an opinion different from mine; maybe he knows more than I do; maybe he knows the Spirit better than I do. Or maybe I’m right, he’s wrong, but he’s under tremendous spiritual attack and his confusion is entirely innocent and better addressed through compassion and patience than ‘criticism’.
Also, I find it helpful to remind myself that I’m also not carrying the same weight of responsibility that these men are. These men who have committed literally their entire lives to Jesus; who pray the liturgy of the hours daily, hear brutal (and frivolous) confessions, say Mass daily, bear the brunt of abuse from lay Catholics and non catholics alike. These men who are almost 100% certainly serving the Church more fully than, at least speaking for myself, I am. These are true fathers leading our family, and honestly I outgrew my teenage years… well, years ago. I don’t want to be the know it all, griping teen tearing down my dad as my dad breaks his back (and his heart) trying his best to serve us kids. I’d rather be helpful around the house, respectful, loving, and ideally make my dad’s work easier.
Anyway, I’m not trying to idolize our priests, and I’m a pretty fierce person. I may (and frequently do) have an opinion about an action taken or words said by a priest… But that’s a very different beast from assuming my opinion must therefore be right or that even if it is, I should start shouting about it. Even if I do think I’m obviously right, there’s a right and a wrong way to go about it (e.g. I’ve approached priests one on one before to offer correction when I thought it was really important. I didn’t do it in front of people, or try to shame or insult them.)
Prudence, I think. Learning to look at the community, at each person in the community (including each priest!) and think: “What does this person most need from me right now?”
Chances are there’s a long list of things way before we ever get to “advice”. I often find “Patience” ranks highly up there.
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commenter
Guest
The Church works best when each person does their own job well. In recent years some have blurred things. The media commands that mothers and fathers are interchangeable, that children are equal to parents.
Students are empowered over teachers. Nuns want to be community organizers, just like laity.
Priests want to swear, and tell locker room stories, just like one of the guys.
(Habits and Roman collars were unpopular for awhile).
Laity want to sit in that Bishop’s chair. Their websites tell them they should do this. Very few laity want to do the work of the Laity. As a result we have legal abortion, etc.
Students are empowered over teachers. Nuns want to be community organizers, just like laity.
Priests want to swear, and tell locker room stories, just like one of the guys.
(Habits and Roman collars were unpopular for awhile).
Laity want to sit in that Bishop’s chair. Their websites tell them they should do this. Very few laity want to do the work of the Laity. As a result we have legal abortion, etc.
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mary15
Guest
Oh well, we do have our little tiffs with each other, but deep down in my heart, I am always grateful in the end for their guidance, and in the secret place of my soul, I feel like this, but don’t tell anyone, lol:
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