When God prevents exercise of free will

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Cannot free will be reduced and even eliminated by outside forces? One such force would be under threat of death or worse.

I believe that when scripture speaks of “the fear of God fell on all…” such as after the deaths of Ananias and Sapphira. This is the reason God uses “signs and wonders” so sparingly, that is, it subjugates the human will and creates cowering, will-less minions, incapable of offering freely their devotion to God.

I would appreciate any feedback.
 
I am so happy to have found this thread! You’ve all givien me a lot to ponder. Thank you! I’m hoping someone can help me out with this…What happens to our free will if we make it to heaven?
 
Most people don’t have free will in every day life… Most are governed by their obsessive habitual past actions which determine their next actions… Also known as the law of Karma…

Plus you need to look at what is actually this being we’re talking about. My self is mind and body, its skin, muscle, blood, bones, nervous system, cells, etc. etc… My mind is formulation, feeling, discrimination, composing factors, consciousness, etc… So there’s not really any solid being that has something happening to it specifically. It’s spread out over almost countless areas…

I doubt God would be any different, but would perhaps be just the same as us, just a little larger in proportion. So devotion to a God really has nothing to do with freewill.
 
TC_CEG said:
Cannot free will be reduced and even eliminated by outside forces? One such force would be under threat of death or worse.

I believe that when scripture speaks of “the fear of God fell on all…” such as after the deaths of Ananias and Sapphira. This is the reason God uses “signs and wonders” so sparingly, that is, it subjugates the human will and creates cowering, will-less minions, incapable of offering freely their devotion to God.

I would appreciate any feedback.
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I think you put it well. This God whom we serve is known for being thrice Holy and lives in light unapproachable. He is also called an all consuming fire and pity the fool who attempts to kick against the pricks might discover that His light can be most blinding, that a hip can go out of joint, that ears can really hurt. Perhaps this aspect to God’s nature is overlooked, but His discipline might seem grievious at the time but in the end it produces faith of gold and a reward that does not fade away.

Without this discipline we have very little assurance that we are sons and daughters of the living God.

:eek: Those OT prophets really had some terrifying experiences when they got up close to God or even an angel. If one is serious about encountering God, I think it is better to let Him to come to you His way than to push in where angels fear to tread. I read about lots of people these days climbing up to God based on their own righteousness and fear what will happen if their insistence is rewarded by a first hand encounter without the correct covering. Dangerous.
 
pam54 said:
I am so happy to have found this thread! You’ve all givien me a lot to ponder. Thank you! I’m hoping someone can help me out with this…What happens to our free will if we make it to heaven?
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You will be free to worship God for enternity
 
Be free without religion. if you attach yourself to religion or anything, then you’ve lost your freedom.
 
In response to jedi - it sounds like you have a religion of your own, so your response does not make sense to me. You may not label it as such in your own mind, but it sounds like you are following certain principles to try to make sense of the world and beyond. What is your definition of religion? I’m not being obtuse - I really am interested in your view.
 
pam54 said:
I am so happy to have found this thread! You’ve all givien me a lot to ponder. Thank you! I’m hoping someone can help me out with this…What happens to our free will if we make it to heaven?
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Hi Pam!

It remains. In fact, it is perfected. Our free will is a share in God’s life. He has perfect freedom of will and He gives us a share in His life by allowing us free will. When Adam and Eve exercised free will against God, one of the wounds they passed on to humanity is concupiscence; a wound against free will that is an inclination to sin. In heaven, we will be like God. We will be pure. We will therefore enjoy a free will that is perfected, no longer burdened and wounded by sin. Our free will will be more like God.

Can we then sin? No. No more than God can. (Just guessing the next logical question. :))

In God who is love, power; perfect intellect; perfect justice; perfect will; etc… exist together inseparably the same. i.e. God’s will is never exercised apart from His intellect, power, justice, love, etc… In heaven, we will be like God in the exercise of our free will in an everlasting exchange of perfect love.
 
TC_CEG said:
Cannot free will be reduced and even eliminated by outside forces? One such force would be under threat of death or worse.

I believe that when scripture speaks of “the fear of God fell on all…” such as after the deaths of Ananias and Sapphira. This is the reason God uses “signs and wonders” so sparingly, that is, it subjugates the human will and creates cowering, will-less minions, incapable of offering freely their devotion to God.

I would appreciate any feedback.
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Hi TC_CEG

An outside force cannot truly eliminate our free will, no matter how severe. Free will is animated by intellect, desire, etc… To eliminate free will, one would have to eliminate these as well. In human terms, one could be bound and placed in captivity, even drugged to the point of having the intellect impaired, yet through all of this, free will is in tact. The choices may be limited, but the freedom of will is not eliminated any more than a person under anesthesia no longer has free will.

As for God, to remove free will from man would be an absence of that which He is, as I tried to articulate above. (Not sure how well. :)) And even under the most fearsome of signs, man still has free will. In Revelation it is clear that some, even under extreme conditions, will freely chose not to repent.
 
Conciliar said:
Hi TC_CEG

An outside force cannot truly eliminate our free will, no matter how severe. Free will is animated by intellect, desire, etc… To eliminate free will, one would have to eliminate these as well. In human terms, one could be bound and placed in captivity, even drugged to the point of having the intellect impaired, yet through all of this, free will is in tact. The choices may be limited, but the freedom of will is not eliminated any more than a person under anesthesia no longer has free will.

As for God, to remove free will from man would be an absence of that which He is, as I tried to articulate above. (Not sure how well. :)) And even under the most fearsome of signs, man still has free will. In Revelation it is clear that some, even under extreme conditions, will freely chose not to repent.
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It sounds like “free will” as defined by you is simply having choices? Is this right?

If not, how do you define “free will”?
 
pam54 said:
I am so happy to have found this thread! You’ve all givien me a lot to ponder. Thank you! I’m hoping someone can help me out with this…What happens to our free will if we make it to heaven?
Click to expand...
Great question-- Thing is, we just can’t help thinking in a teleological way can we?

If God sees time as a map-- a plan view, we see it only in a linear sense; exactly what’s in front of us.

Does that help you understand?
 
Calvinator said:
It sounds like “free will” as defined by you is simply having choices? Is this right?

If not, how do you define “free will”?
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No. I am making exactly the opposite point. I was replying to a poster who linked physical surroundings (a kid in timeout) with free will.

Free will is best described as moral liberty.
 
FightingFat said:
Great question-- Thing is, we just can’t help thinking in a teleological way can we?

If God sees time as a map-- a plan view, we see it only in a linear sense; exactly what’s in front of us.

Does that help you understand?
Click to expand...
Yes, I understand. 1 Corinthians 2: 9-16. 👍

Pophead.
 
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