When is an atheist a Christian?

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Let me tell you a story that is completely true.

I live in a village in the East Midlands of the UK. We are a farming community. Being in a protestant country we have a church and naturally it is Church of England. It is attended by very few. Most people in the community don’t care about religion. They are farmers and live by the weather and the seasons. If there is a perfect Sunday to get the crop in then so shall it be. During lambing season if a ewe is having trouble at the weekend so be it; the ewe and the lamb take precedence.

In Jesus’ words, reap what you sow and be a good shepherd.

Recently a couple lost their unborn son at 32 weeks into the pregnancy. They had already named him Samuel. He was still-born. Lisa, the mother, had collapsed, was rushed into hospital and sedated during which time she gave birth to her dead son. She was put into a coma to heal, during which time Dan had to deal with the loss on his own. Lisa was revived a couple of weeks later, unaware of the loss and Dan had to tell her.

The village rallied together. Nobody here earns a high wage but amongst us we raised nearly £2000 in a week for the couple to give them a holiday, or use for the funeral, or whatever they wanted to do with it. More than the money we wanted to show them that we were there for them. And we did.

If you ask anyone in the village about their religious beliefs they will say ‘Don’t care’ or ‘Better off without it’.

Yet this insignificant a-religious village has actually followed Jesus’ teaching to the letter. It has loved and still loves its neighbour. It has followed the message of 1 Peter 3:8:
Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one for another. Love each other as brethren, be sympathetic, be courteous.

Jesus can be found outside the Church as well.

While most in this village would describe themselves as atheist they are, maybe, more Christian than most Christians.
 
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Many people who claim no religious affiliation or theistic belief often act in ways consistent with the teachings of Christ. Anyone who follows or lives by the golden rule (do unto others as they do unto you) acts in a very Christian manner to his brothers and sisters. They are to be respected as the people you cite.

However, to call an atheist a christian is like calling a cocker spaniel a kangaroo. Atheist denotes a belief in no supreme deity. Agnostic on the other hand…
 
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Belief in Christ is not required to recognize that some of the teachings are good ones to live by.
 
Both cocker spaniel and kangaroo are part of Creation…

The majority of people here are atheists. .

In fact the atheists donated more.

Dan certainly is. He is a builder by trade. 6’2", muscled, angry, looking to punch anyone who winds him up at the moment. He said I’ve never believed in God. How can there be a God when my son died?’

I pointed out that we are all cogs in Creation and how we deal with difficulty affects the cogs around us. If one deals with illness, loss or hardship negatively then the cogs around are affected and those cogs will transfer the negativity forward. As a result humanity’s evolution will take a negative turn. Find the silver lining and humanity will evolve which is what God would want. We in the village provide that silver lining. While Dan is grieving he’s also emotionally moved in a positive way and several hugs later tonight he said ‘You’re a tw*t, and I love you. Thank you.’

There. A kangaroo ready to punch became a cuddly cocker spaniel.
 
I have to say I got more empathy and sympathy from the local C of E vicar and another C of E vicar friend of mine. They at least said they would pray for the couple.

I guess because this is a protestant country and the people here are non-Catholic, be it atheist, agnostic, whatever, because they don’t fit the bill they don’t require your sympathy.

Though Dan and Lisa are non-believers the C of E clergy have no problem praying for them.

Maybe I should have titled this ‘When is a Catholic a Christian?’
 
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As I said this community lives with the land, animals, the weather and the seasons. They love Creation. What better way to celebrate and love God, albeit tacitly?

Who is closer to God? He who lives in a concrete jungle or he who exists with nature?
 
The fool hath said in his heart: There is no God, They are corrupt, and are become abominable in their ways: there is none that doth good, no not one.
Psalm 14: 1
 
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It’s a GREAT**; but the WRONG question to ask.**

Of course God can be found outside the Church; BUT, is that God’s NORM? Is that my Jesus Founded 'MY CHURCH" singular Mt. 16:18? Is that why Jesus came to EARTH so that we COULD know Him?

You see friend, what your farmer’s tale highlights is man’s propensity to want EVERYTHING on there own terms which is a sin, and under the right conditions even a MORTAL Sin. 1 Jn 1: 5-6; 1 Jn 5:16-17 & John 20:19-23

In this soul endangering presumptuous story you share, you miss a few critical points.
  1. God is in charge even when we might wish that he wasn’t
  2. Several of Gods commandments are being willfully broken here …
    I AM the Lord THY God & you shall have no other [invented gods] before ME & Keep HOLY the Sabbath day
  3. Who do your farmers suppose creates the weather? And the sheep.
  4. 1 Tim 2: 3-4 "This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth"
God therefore commits Himself to OFFER “sufficient” grace that everyone COULD, if they cooperated with God’s grace, know Him.

God CERTAINLY does expect charity; which of itself is a good thing; BUT is NO substitute for Love of God! John 13:34

Here is the KEY:

God will, because as GOD He must pass final judgment upon each soul based NOT upon what each of Us WANTS, freely chooses, accepts and lives; RATHER it will be based upon what GOD has made possible for each each soul to know, to accept and to live.

The story you share would seen to put a great many souls at RISK, if they do not repent & convert, of eternal hell, which BTW, we, NOT God choose.

If there are legitimate circumstances where one, NOT due to their own fault , sloth, or private opinions, or doing, has NOT the opportunity to KNOW about Christ desires and demands for belief & practice of JUST

One Tue God
One True set of faith beliefs
& through One True Catholic Church,

THEN in such a case [GOD CANNOT be fooled], charity might get that soul to heaven. AMEN!

Pray very much,
Patrick
 
Lord, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill?
He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart.
He that backbiteth not with his tongue, nor doeth evil to his neighbour, nor taketh up a reproach against his neighbour.
In whose eyes a vile person is contemned; but he honoureth them that fear the Lord. He that sweareth to his own hurt, and changeth not.
He that putteth not out his money to usury, nor taketh reward against the innocent. He that doeth these things shall never be moved.

Psalm 15
 
Those who fear God. Those who do not fear God are not good. They are evil. The judgements of men (your story) are worthless in the eyes of God.
 
1 John 1 5
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

1 John 5 16
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death.

So apparently you’ve seen a sin not unto death so you are obliged to give your life.

John 20 23
Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Guess you have the village’s sins now. Remit is forgive. Retain is to hold something for someone.
Remit and retain are old financial terms for debt. Remit a debt is to forgive a debt. Retain a debt is to write it off.
In accountancy they are treated differently. Remit hits the balance sheet. Retain hits P&L.
In other words don’t accuse anyone of sin. Before saying anything forgive them. Say something and you bear the sin.

1 Tim 2 also says:In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

I’m male. If you are female you have no right to challenge me.

John 13 34
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

Yep. I think this village is on the right path.
Hey, you chose the passages, obviously not expecting me to look them up.
I did.
 
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Ah, the old wheat and chaff line.

The chaff are placed in the barn for burning.
The wheat is ground to make flour.

To make bread you need the flour to make the dough.
But then you need the chaff to heat the oven to bake it.

You need both wheat and chaff to make bread.

And bread is the body of Christ.
 
JustLamb said:
Jesus can be found outside the Church as well.

While most in this village would describe themselves as atheist they are, maybe, more Christian than most Christians.
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i think you miss the point on what being a christian is. they are atheist so they don’t believe in God. then it is assumed they don’t believe in Jesus so how can they be christian? they may act more christian but they are not more christian. they are more communal.
John 14:6New International Version (NIV)

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks friend for taking the time to reply to my post; though you did not quote my bible references in full:

1Jn 1:5-6 "1Jn 5 to 6 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light and in him is no darkness at all. If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not live according to the truth

1 Jn 5: 16-17 "[16] If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortall

[QUOTE}So apparently you’ve seen a sin not unto death so you are obliged to give your life
[/quote]

Sorry but I don’t understand your point based on these passages. WHAT they teach us is that “all” sin, and that God CANNOT judge all sins to be equal in debt

Jn 20:19-23 "Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.

So here then Jesus directly & exclusively shares HIS Godly Powers to forgive sins with the Apostles

Your understanding is incorrect. Keep in mind that the RCC existed for some 1,500 years BEFORE the Reformation and had already; GOD Inspired defined this doctrine.1 Tim 3: 15-16 & 2 Tilm 3:16-17

Your understanding interesting though. It presumes that GOD was willing to do everything for one’s salvation which is just a recent very human invention.

Christ five different times tells US to take up OUR crosses and to follow His example, and the more often a LESSON is taught the greater is its significance to both God and man…

Sin forgive through a PRIEST follows OT Tradition & Jesus just PERFECTED IT & greatly empowered His Catholic [& Orthodox] Priest to actually have the AUTHORITY to forgive sins GODS WAY.

Your “way” attempts to dictate to GOD how He MUST forgive your sins.

Exodus 28:1
Take unto thee also Aaron thy brother with his sons, from among the children of Israel, that they may minister to me in the priest’ s office: Aaron, Nadab, and Abiu, Eleazar, and Ithamar.

Leviticus 5:16
And he shall make good the damage itself which he hath done, and shall add the fifth part besides, delivering it to the priest, who shall pray for him, offering the ram, and it shall be forgiven him. [This is C-“forgiven”; but priest intercession & GOD forgiven COVERING sins; NOT priest forgive which NOW under Grace; God has empowered his Catholic Priest to do.

hmmmm my name is PATRICK [and even if I were female when you express eror as you have; they have the moral obligation to OFFER correction.

I love Jn 23:34 and this correction to TRUTH is fraternal; with the Love of Christ behind it

!
PJM
 
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